This is definately the wrong forum for this. It belongs to the Mormon thread. You wanted it to get face time outside of the Mormon thread so more people could read this. Oh well. It will eventually be moved.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
{genetics and book of mormon..........................}[/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_the_Book_of_Mormon
As far back as 1920, LDS members were counseled to not assume too much about Native American origins.
Also, it is quite apparent that you're not aware that Bruce R. McKonkie made the decision to put into the Book of Mormon preface, in the 1981 edition, his blurb about the Lamanites being the primary ancestors of the Native Americans, withOUT getting approval from the first presidency. He made the decision on his own and it was controversial inside the Church. Some members criticized it as too sweeping and inaccurate.
Low and behold, evidence comes forth, the Mormons change it to reflect properly.
But what would you say if there were found genetic evidence in some Native American peoples?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
{archeology and book of mormonism....................................}http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_and_the_Book_of_Mormon
Originally posted by leonheartmm
{joseph smith senior and junior...................not one word critiquing them or pointing out that they were frauds.....}http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Sr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.
K. But this assumes, incorrectly, that they were frauds.
😉
Originally posted by leonheartmm
{beleifs............dont really mention the underwear or the space god or the devil being jesus' brother or rejecting blacks until the 70s as slaves or the fact of polygamy, no women are about as active as men here}http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beliefs_and_practices_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
Space God? Lame.
Devil being Christ's brother and our brother? Wait, you mean you don't know that it says, quite clearly, that Satan is a fallen angel in Isaiah? Unless you mean to imply that God didn't create his own angels, you just don't know very much about Christian mythology.
Rejecting blacks until the 70s? Wait, you didn't know that some "blacks" held our "Mormon priesthood" well before the 70s? You mean you don't know that there were quite a few racist people back then, even inside the Mormon church? Me thinks that you assume Mormons are perfect because their teachings demand that they be perfect. This is false. More on this "black hate" in a moment.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
{historicity.....wow, does any1 else think this is too soft and not representative of the people}http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_the_Book_of_Mormon
The fact that there are so many anti-Mormon wiki articles doesn't strike you as a little odd? I guess not because you think the Mormons go buck-wild on on these wiki cites.
Can you find just as many wiki entries for the Catholic church?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
{prophecies.............again every noted criticism is rationalised away}http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecies_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.
Does it shock your or something that there are apologetics out there that work just fine, logically, for almost every anti-Mormon argument out there? Surely you realize that a "fair and balanced" Wiki article will contain both the anti-Mormon sentiment, and it's apologetic, don't you?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
{blacks and the church............a sickeningly rosy picture}http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement
Yeah, you obviously don't know anyting about Mormon history. You do know that the Mormons were hated in Missouri, kiled, persecuted, driven, etc....because they had unpaid clergy, were anti-slavery, got along well with Native Americans and taught the gospel to and baptized any human into the church.
"Though there were some naturally rough and violent people in the frontier state of Missouri, even respectable citizens of that state had legitimate reasons for being concerned about their Mormon neighbors. They were concentrating in one portion of the state, where they were becoming a significant economic and local political force. They tended to do business among themselves, leading to charges that their economic exclusivity was un-American. They were different, with a much-belittled religion and the odd belief that a Prophet was among them. They were also buying up much land in the area. They were also branded as pro-abolition in a state that favored slavery. There were concerns that Mormons would incite rebellion among slaves and Mormons were accused of slave tampering. Likewise, there was fear that Mormons might incite Indian wars, since the Mormons were favorably oriented toward the Indians and had tried to preach to them. Naturally, it was easy for neighbors to be suspicious and worried. Take the Missourians economic and political concerns, through in a little bigotry, couple that with Mormon frustration about endless persecutions against a "chosen people," and toss in some inevitable human misbehavior among the Mormons as well, and you've got a recipe for trouble.
Frankly, the above description is probably too generous to the Missourians. It does injustice to history to downplay the significant role that religious bigotry played. Terry L. Givens thoughtfully explores this issue in his book, The Viper on the Hearth: Mormons, Myths, and the Construction of Heresy (New York: Oxford University Press, 1997, pp. 40-59). He notes that critics have long had a vested interest in emphasizing nonreligious reasons for the persecution of the Latter-day Saints, and historians have also focused on causes of the conflict other than religious bigotry. However, Givens notes, even before the Missouri Wars began, "the hundreds of mobbers involved at the outset were good enough to commit their complaints to paper" (ibid., p. 44), referring to a document "drawn up at a mass meeting in Jackson County, Missouri, in July 1833" that shows the significance of religion in the minds of the mobbers. It begins with lip service to the notion of leaving the "grossest supestition" of Mormon religion out of the conflict, but quickly launches into attacks on LDS beliefs. The authors raise the specter of Mormon "swarms" invading their land, people "who do not blush to declare, and would not upon occasion hesitate to swear, that they have wrought miracles . . . and supernatural cures, have concourse with God and His angels, and possess and exercise the gifts of divination and of unknown tongues" (ibid., p. 44). There follows a brief reference to LDS antiabolitionist tendencies - the only attempt in the document to provide a legal reason for opposing the Mormons - followed by a reiteration of a religious attack on the Mormons. Givens writes, "Rather than mount a serious attack on Mormon racial views in a way that would lend legitimacy - or at least mitigate - their violent solutions [in the context of a pro-slavery state], the mobbers repeatedly invoke and caricature Mormon religious heterodoxy" (ibid., p. 44). In many of the actions against the Mormons, local religious leaders played significant roles. For example, affidavits signed by three members of the Church indicate that when Joseph Smith was court-martialed and sentence to death at Far West by the Missouri Militia, that "seventeen preachers of the gospel were on this court martial; and, horrible to relate, were in favor of this merciless sentence" (Clark V. Johnson, ed., Mormon Redress Petitions: Documents of the 1833-1838 Missouri Conflict (Provo, Utah: Religious Studies Center, BYU, 1992), p. 407)."
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Missouri.shtml#beginnings
From what it sounds like, you're very ignorant of both American and LDS history. You have a very biased opinion of Mormons, despite not even being a Christian. Why is it that you are so anti-Mormon? Aren't there much better religions to pick on out there that have quite ugly things going on in them? You could pick on all of the robbers and thieves who proselyte for money rather than their congregations eternal salvation. But, noooooo, you pick on the religion that believes in getting an education, unpaid clergy, developing a healthy family environment, working actively in the community, etc.
How about you read all of this?
http://www.jefflindsay.com/myturn.shtml