Originally posted by batdude123
I hate the idea of Dick replacing Bruce as Batman.
i don't consider him a replacement, personally. he's a short term sub, nothing more.
dick was always much better as nightwing, imo. he'd carved out his own name and reputation in that guise, and he was all the better for it, imo.
Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't consider him a replacement, personally. he's a short term sub, nothing more.dick was always much better as nightwing, imo. he'd carved out his own name and reputation in that guise, and he was all the better for it, imo.
The fact that he's dawning the cowl just doesn't sit well with me.
I freaking love it. I really do. And I don't dislike Bruce at all. Not sure why I feel that way, but meh. I can still see Batman as Batman, regardless of who is under the mask, provided they're true enough to the spirit of the character. I think a few successful transitions among superheros (WW, Superman, GL, Flash, etc.) have shown us that the character itself exists outside the individuals who embody the roles at any particular time. I love the idea of Batman, then, but I'm not too tied up on who is him.
Originally posted by Digi
I freaking love it. I really do. And I don't dislike Bruce at all. Not sure why I feel that way, but meh. I can still see Batman as Batman, regardless of who is under the mask, provided they're true enough to the spirit of the character. I think a few successful transitions among superheros (WW, Superman, GL, Flash, etc.) have shown us that the character itself exists outside the individuals who embody the roles at any particular time. I love the idea of Batman, then, but I'm not too tied up on who is him.
why on earth did you include superman and wonder woman? kal-el has been the primary superman for two generations, and there was almost no difference between him and his predecessor. they were clearly meant to be the same guy, just rebooted.
diana has been wonder woman practially forever (bar one or two short lived breaks).
dick being batman is not the same thing at all.
Originally posted by Digi
I freaking love it. I really do. And I don't dislike Bruce at all. Not sure why I feel that way, but meh. I can still see Batman as Batman, regardless of who is under the mask, provided they're true enough to the spirit of the character. I think a few successful transitions among superheros (WW, Superman, GL, Flash, etc.) have shown us that the character itself exists outside the individuals who embody the roles at any particular time. I love the idea of Batman, then, but I'm not too tied up on who is him.
Completely agree.
I thought the Father/Son dynamic between Bruce and Dick was always one of the more interesting character studies in comics. I always got that legacy vibe off Nightwing but before FC, I'd never have thought DC would have the balls to go through with it.
I'm so glad they have. I also love the fact that he's a different Batman to Bruce. He's slightly leaner in posture, more acrobatic and agile to Bruce's cool but strong demeanour and he's much more light hearted in personality than his emotionless predecessor.
I love that the whole light and dark dynamic has been reversed with the new Batman and Robin. It's simple and yet so refreshing. I only hope Dick stays as Batman for at least as long as Bucky's been Cap. Preferably longer.
Originally posted by -Pr-
why on earth did you include superman and wonder woman? kal-el has been the primary superman for two generations, and there was almost no difference between him and his predecessor. they were clearly meant to be the same guy, just rebooted.diana has been wonder woman practially forever (bar one or two short lived breaks).
dick being batman is not the same thing at all.
PC Superman was clearly a different character. Hell, Kal fighting him in the last Lantern book was a stark reminder of this. Diana, sure, I'll concede that. But it's definitely true for Superman, and in fact makes my point. An established, decades-old character got utterly replaced. He's been Superman for 2 generations, sure. Earth-2 Superman was the man for at least 3-4 before that. And no one seemed to mind because the essential character was still intact. It's very possible, for even the biggest of characters.
Flash is another great example. Didio's fetish with the Silver Age aside, Flash would've been fine if Barry had never come back. Or if Jay had died too, and Wally was the Flash.
Batman & Bruce Wayne are synonymous. The same way Superman and Clark Kent are. The same way Spiderman and Peter Parker are. Which is why I don't dislike Dick wearing the mantle. He is not Batman. He knows it. I know it. And Grant Morrison, along with other writers, have made it very clear that Bruce Wayne and Batman are one and the same. I just sit back and enjoy the ride until Bruce comes back.
As for the JLA, I really want it to be good, but..
Originally posted by Digi
PC Superman was clearly a different character. Hell, Kal fighting him in the last Lantern book was a stark reminder of this. Diana, sure, I'll concede that. But it's definitely true for Superman, and in fact makes my point. An established, decades-old character got utterly replaced. He's been Superman for 2 generations, sure. Earth-2 Superman was the man for at least 3-4 before that. And no one seemed to mind because the essential character was still intact. It's very possible, for even the biggest of characters.Flash is another great example. Didio's fetish with the Silver Age aside, Flash would've been fine if Barry had never come back. Or if Jay had died too, and Wally was the Flash.
i never said he wasn't a different character. i said the intention was to make the transition smooth, because they weren't that different, which they weren't bar power levels. that superman was still clark kent. he still dated lois. he still saved jimmy, and got yelled at by perry. even if you want to argue that they were very different characters, the mythos was uninterrupted.
sticking an extra e in his name doesn't make that much of a difference.
the flash is a legacy character, so i don't think it's the same thing, personally.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Batman & Bruce Wayne are synonymous. The same way Superman and Clark Kent are. The same way Spiderman and Peter Parker are.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Batman & Bruce Wayne are synonymous. The same way Superman and Clark Kent are. The same way Spiderman and Peter Parker are.
And at one time, Alan Scott and Green Lantern were synonymous. Or Flash and Jay Garrick. And to pretend that they weren't just as iconic as these characters is just wrong. In a reference to his Silver Age days, in a recent GL JSA one-shot a man said to Alan "You were Superman before Superman was Superman."
I understand that DC is bringing Bruce back. I'm fine with it. But I'm saying that, personally, I'd be fine with Dick being Batman. Or Connor being Superman. So long as the spirit of the character is preserved, you have the character. Who is wearing the mask is unimportant.
Originally posted by Digi
PC Superman was clearly a different character. Hell, Kal fighting him in the last Lantern book was a stark reminder of this. Diana, sure, I'll concede that. But it's definitely true for Superman, and in fact makes my point. An established, decades-old character got utterly replaced. He's been Superman for 2 generations, sure. Earth-2 Superman was the man for at least 3-4 before that. And no one seemed to mind because the essential character was still intact. It's very possible, for even the biggest of characters.
when you say pc do you mean silver age?
cuz that was the same clark kent as the current mainstream one, earth 2 is the one from the golden age
Originally posted by Digi
And at one time, Alan Scott and Green Lantern were synonymous. Or Flash and Jay Garrick. And to pretend that they weren't just as iconic as these characters is just wrong. In a reference to his Silver Age days, in a recent GL JSA one-shot a man said to Alan "You were Superman before Superman was Superman."I understand that DC is bringing Bruce back. I'm fine with it. But I'm saying that, personally, I'd be fine with Dick being Batman. Or Connor being Superman. So long as the spirit of the character is preserved, you have the character. Who is wearing the mask is unimportant.
👆
Originally posted by Digi
And at one time, Alan Scott and Green Lantern were synonymous. Or Flash and Jay Garrick. And to pretend that they weren't just as iconic as these characters is just wrong. In a reference to his Silver Age days, in a recent GL JSA one-shot a man said to Alan "You were Superman before Superman was Superman."I understand that DC is bringing Bruce back. I'm fine with it. But I'm saying that, personally, I'd be fine with Dick being Batman. Or Connor being Superman. So long as the spirit of the character is preserved, you have the character. Who is wearing the mask is unimportant.
you named green lantern and flash, though. those characters have a history of passing on the mantle. batman doesn't, except when he takes on a new robin.
Originally posted by DigiDick fights crime, but he's not Batman. That's pretty much the whole backdrop of the books at this point.
I understand that DC is bringing Bruce back. I'm fine with it. But I'm saying that, personally, I'd be fine with Dick being Batman. Or Connor being Superman. So long as the spirit of the character is preserved, you have the character. Who is wearing the mask is unimportant.