Obama's Threat to Summer Vacation

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But any school that can afford it is somewhat obligated to separate the classes based on how smart the kids are.

This I definitely have to agree with. The schools I went to growing up started with this sort of thing in elementary school. My high school put a heavy emphasis on honors and AP classes if you think you were able to handle them, and managed to achieve a 99% graduation rate my senior year (I am not joking. Only 3 kids out of my class of ~310 did not graduate on time).

But I also know that I was incredibly lucky in going to such great schools, and that sadly? A lot of places simply cannot afford to do such things, even as much as kids in my area take it for granted (I live in a fairly affluent area, even though my family is far from being so). Perhaps if a bit more money was put into the education system...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I think her reasoning is ridiculous so you assume that I am the type of person that would use that exact pattern of reasoning?

. . .

Public school right?

Not at all. I was just pointing out the fallacy of assuming that a person's reasoning lies at the far end of the spectrum. Kalero said previously that education should be taught toward the Average student, not the best, but definately not the worst.

And Actually I started in a private school, but left it after 3rd grade due to religious differences between myself and the school (I was a baptist in an extremely catholic school. Didn't mesh well) After that I went to public school from 4th - 6th grade, then was homeschooled via a private school from florida from 7th-9th (Learned more there than I did any other way because it actually pushed me and made me want to learn) then I returned to Public School in the 10th grade and stayed there untill I graduated in 2008. Now I am on my second year of college.

Originally posted by Mandrag Ganon
Not at all. I was just pointing out the fallacy of assuming that a person's reasoning lies at the far end of the spectrum. Kalero said previously that education should be taught toward the Average student, not the best, but definately not the worst.

But her line of reasoning was that if you challenge a person they automatically go to that level because it's presented to them. In that case there's no reason at all to not teach toward the best student (unless she really hates kids).

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But her line of reasoning was that if you challenge a person they automatically go to that level because it's presented to them. In that case there's no reason at all to not teach toward the best student (unless she really hates kids).

...General Kaliero's a guy, not a girl 😛

Originally posted by Peach
...General Kaliero's a guy, not a girl 😛

Just one chromosome off 😐

Originally posted by Peach
This I definitely have to agree with. The schools I went to growing up started with this sort of thing in elementary school. My high school put a heavy emphasis on honors and AP classes if you think you were able to handle them, and managed to achieve a 99% graduation rate my senior year (I am not joking. Only 3 kids out of my class of ~310 did not graduate on time).

I went to a horrendous High School. Failure litterally required doing NONE of your work, and yet, I was astonished to find kids overly stressed and dropping out by the bucketload. It still baffles me to this day that the highschool I went to was set up in a way that you could easily pass without putting forth any real effort, and yet people were still stressed beyond comprehension and I can't begin to count the people who just gave up.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But her line of reasoning was that if you challenge a person they automatically go to that level because it's presented to them. In that case there's no reason at all to not teach toward the best student (unless she really hates kids).

I got that he was saying that challenging a person will often give them reason to strive for and thus achieve a higher level of understanding, but to teach to the smartest kid will still put undue stress to the lower classes, which is why you should teach to the average. Teaching to the worst student will only serve to hold everyone back. Except that one student.

Apologies for the double post...

This would not change anything. The problem with American public schools is not Summer Vacation. It is the curriculum and budget.

Go to Japan Nemesis, let me know what you think about their schooling.

how long is school in U.S. anyway, and how long is summer?

Originally posted by Nemesis X
People these days should have as much freedom and fun as possible.

man, so many points I wanted to make sarcastic one-liners to. But I choose this one!

so, really, mr. X. You don't see the connection between a good education and personal freedom?

You don't see how having a well educated public is essential for a functional democracy?

and you are 16 now. Drop out and get a real job if school in the summer sounds bad. OH WAIT, real people doing real things have to do it in the summer too!

/end ranting at 16yos

Originally posted by inimalist
OH WAIT, real people doing real things have to do it in the summer too!

/end ranting at 16yos

Indeed.

@nemesis x - sorry man, I know how you feel, but well.. yeah. I'm almost just as old as you dude - and in college no less. And college is pretty much crazy.

I know it really sucks... but sometimes extra measure have to be done to ensure that something really would help people out.

I'm actually kind of jealous - my country (in the midst of chaos with the Ketsana thing, too) can't really afford this kind of focus on education. please don't take this for granted.

Studying hard is the key to success. Forcing students to study harder is the losing the key and expect them to open the door.

Encourage do not force.

Originally posted by WhoopeeDee
Studying hard is the key to success. Forcing students to study harder is the losing the key and expect them to open the door.

Encourage do not force.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
If I do what you guys are doing, I would feel like an emotionless robot. People these days should have as much freedom and fun as possible.

Ignorance is indeed bliss, isn't it, Nemesis?

Tell me, when this "Freedom and fun" begins to interfere with education, what happens then?

Originally posted by Mandrag Ganon
Ignorance is indeed bliss, isn't it, Nemesis?

Tell me, when this "Freedom and fun" begins to interfere with education, what happens then?

Then everyone is totally free. Market economics and social darwinism come into play causing a perfect utopian world. It would be deulsional to assume otherwise.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then everyone is totally free. Market economics and social darwinism come into play causing a perfect utopian world. It would be deulsional to assume otherwise.

Or else the uneducated masses who know nothing of reality come to power causing massive downfall of all world economies and powers (Assuming this is a global "Screw learning" policy) due to the fact that they spent their time "Free and having as much fun as possible" didn't learn necessicarry information, such as mathematics, history, science, etc. etc.

Now if it is just one country that takes this "Screw Learning" policy, then their political and economic status crumbles and other countries move in and lay claim to the country now in ruins.

What is delusional, Chaos, is thinking that "Having as much freedom and fun as possible" untill it interferes with education will lead to a perfect utopian world. More likely it will lead to simple Anarchy.

Originally posted by Mandrag Ganon
Or else the uneducated masses who know nothing of reality come to power causing massive downfall of all world economies and powers (Assuming this is a global "Screw learning" policy) due to the fact that they spent their time "Free and having as much fun as possible" didn't learn necessicarry information, such as mathematics, history, science, etc. etc.

Now if it is just one country that takes this "Screw Learning" policy, then their political and economic status crumbles and other countries move in and lay claim to the country now in ruins.

What is delusional, Chaos, is thinking that "Having as much freedom and fun as possible" untill it interferes with education will lead to a perfect utopian world. More likely it will lead to simple Anarchy.

I don't know anymore, I talk with an awful lot of anarchists and libertarians (okay, two of them).

I did recently read an article suggesting that pirates were a good example of self organization, which suggests to me that a society in such a state would become a threat to it's neighbors. It would end up forced to sustain itself by expansion, conquest and the good old fashoined meat grinder that is war.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I don't know anymore, I talk with an awful lot of anarchists and libertarians (okay, two of them).

I did recently read an article suggesting that pirates were a good example of self organization, which suggests to me that a society in such a state would become a threat to it's neighbors. It would end up forced to sustain itself by expansion, conquest and the good old fashoined meat grinder that is war.

Yea, we'll just ignore the fact that the pirates you speak of, though a good example of self organization, tend to board ships, and rob and/or kill the people on board. And in all of this, I am not seeing this "Perfect Utopian Society" you speak of, tell me, is it before, or after hundreds of thousands get slaughtered in the meat grinder? And even at that, how is this utopian society maintained. A small group of sea-dwelling thieves is one thing, but a world wide utopia is quite another.

i think youre taking this a little too seriously.