Originally posted by -Pr-ok my bad u meant the cyclops thing not the time travel
why not? she went back in time, manipulated cyclops at a level no telepath could achieve, thus changing the future.
i dont remeber this ep so i dunno what she did to him but yeah if she "changed" him or somethin the way u say, then i guess thats counts as warpin
not hi-lvl warp tho 😛
or maybe its just exeptional TP skill & not real warp. got scan?
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
ok my bad u meant the cyclops thing not the time traveli dont remeber this ep so i dunno what she did to him but yeah if she "changed" him or somethin the way u say, then i guess thats counts as warpin
not hi-lvl warp tho 😛or maybe its just exeptional TP skill & not real warp. got scan?
well time travel could be construed as reality warping if she didn't just travel through time but rewind time itself.
sure, i have it, one sec...
here's the timeline as it was:
here's what happened with jean and subsequently scott:
read carefully the dialogue between the phoenix's and jean.
IMO time manip is just that, time manip. time gem coud do same thing, no need 4 reality gem
ok the emma & cyclop thing can be call reality warp 🙂 BUT it can also be call (very very) hi-lvl molecular manip (in the panel it says tk control of atoms, btw it says "control" not "warp"😉
what i mean is she changed the timeline but she dint "warp" anythin, i mean the new universe works like the old one, its just that events are a bit different...uh dunno if u get my drift 🙁
Originally posted by -Pr-
well time travel could be construed as reality warping if she didn't just travel through time but rewind time itself.sure, i have it, one sec...
here's the timeline as it was:
here's what happened with jean and subsequently scott:
read carefully the dialogue between the phoenix's and jean.
awesome read
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
IMO time manip is just that, time manip. time gem coud do same thing, no need 4 reality gemok the emma & cyclop thing can be call reality warp 🙂 BUT it can also be call (very very) hi-lvl molecular manip (in the panel it says tk control of atoms, btw it says "control" not "warp"😉
what i mean is she changed the timeline but she dint "warp" anythin, i mean the new universe works like the old one, its just that events are a bit different...uh dunno if u get my drift 🙁
oh, i do, i just disagree.
you say it's control and not warping, but for me, that's just semantics.
Originally posted by -Pr-why not? she went back in time,
manipulated cyclops at a level no telepath could achieve,
thus changing the future.
That is:
Travelling back in time into 616,
in order to change the future of their own reality.
Jean didn't warp 616, or any other reality,
she traveled back in time, from 15104 to 616,
she then mind raped Scott,
and that changed that alternate possible future (reality 15104)
So literally, the power behind the creation and nullification of reality 15104,
was all in Scott's decision/mind.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I can name 5 characters (for starters), with no TP whatsoever,
that have altered a possible 616 future in the same fashion.That is:
Travelling back in time into 616,
in order to change the future of their own reality.Jean didn't warp 616, or any other reality,
she traveled back in time, from 15104 to 616,
she then mind raped Scott,
and that changed that alternate possible future (reality 15104)So literally, the power behind the creation and nullification of reality 15104,
was all in Scott's decision/mind.
i disagree.
Originally posted by Mr Master
You can't affect a concept through atoms.
time? or reality?
and who says they're simply a concept?
Originally posted by -Pr-i disagree.
Originally posted by -Pr-time? or reality?
and who says they're simply a concept?
Reality (in Marvel comics specifically) is Time/Space and everything in-between.
If you need on panel and yet again
(handbooks confirming the on panel facts)
let me know.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool, I respect that,
still doesn't change the on panel depiction,
which was confirmed in the handbook (2 of them) corroborated factual truth.
you never considered that your interpretation of it might be false?
question. if it is in fact an alternate timeline that has nothing to do with 616, then why print the comics? why tell the story? why would jean bother to manipulate it? she's from 616, and 616 scott is who she cares for above all. if it's not 616 scott, then why bother?
Time is a Conceptual idea, in the real world and definitely in Marvel comics.Reality (in Marvel comics specifically) is Time/Space and everything in-between.
If you need on panel and yet again
(handbooks confirming the on panel facts)
let me know.
time has also been manipulated by various beings. jean isn't the first, nor will she be the last person to manipulate it. i really don't see why it's that much of an issue.
Originally posted by -Pr-you never considered that your interpretation of it might be false?
If I'm wrong, then Morrison is wrong about his own work,
and the Handbook writers as well who corroborated said truth.
Originally posted by -Pr-question.
if it is in fact an alternate timeline that has nothing to do with 616,
then why print the comics?
And who said it had nothing to do with 616?
Everything comes from 616,
every alternate/diverged/mirror reality comes from 616.
So, of course one has to change soemthing in 616,
in order to change something in an alternate universe.
How the hell you think all those 'What If' realities came to light?
Correct, by a decision made back in 616,
just like Scott's decision to quit,
gave rise to a global dominating Sublime in an alternate Future called Here Comes Tomorrow,
this alternate future was designated Reality 15104. (just another possible future of 616)
And just like Scott's decision to stay with the X-Men,
nullified the tragedy that was that alternate future. (here Comes Tomorrow - Reality 15104)
The only significance that Jean has in the alteration of reality 15104,
is manipulating Scott's to stay with the X-Men.
Originally posted by -Pr-why tell the story? why would jean bother to manipulate it?
But there is a WPotC in the a possible future known as Here Comes Tomorrow,
this possible future is located in a reality designated 15104.
WPotC wanted Scott alive in her future,
so yea, she had to back into 616,
in order to give Scott life again,
and simultaneously assuring that Sublime would not rule her world in that future.
Originally posted by -Pr-she's from 616,
and 616 scott is who she cares for above all.
if it's not 616 scott, then why bother?
So, if Here Comes Tomorrow is 616,
then every single 'What If' story is 616 as well.
And that's bull shit (pardon my french)
Originally posted by -Pr-time has also been manipulated by various beings. jean isn't the first, nor will she be the last person to manipulate it. i really don't see why it's that much of an issue.
She manipulated Scott's decision,
which in turn manipulated time.
The power of the divergence was always in Scott's decision.
