Jesus Mistaken?

Most evangelical Christians think that we live in the end times, that Jesus will soon be coming back to rapture up all the true believers etc etc...

However, Jesus seems to disagree.

From Matthew Chapter 24:

24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. "False Christs, false prophets, great signs and wonders"

24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The words "this generation" clearly refer to the current or present generation of Jesus' day. It's not "that generation" or "a distant generation" its "this generation."

There are other instances where "this generation" is also used.

From Matthew Chapter 23

23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous.

23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Once again Jesus refers to his generation, clearly using "this generation."

Unless we think Jesus measures generations in lengths of 2,000 years, there is an apparent problem here.

Last I checked, Judgement Day didn't happen 2,000 years ago, yet Jesus seems to think it would happen within his generation.

Perhaps the perfect Jesus was mistaken?

Of course if Jesus is mistaken on something rather important like the timing of Judgement Day, then how can we trust that he was accurate elsewhere?

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus constantly gives warnings like this about how the end is near. He tells people to abandon everything and prepare for God's return. Why? Unless he thought that Judgement Day was going to happen soon.

As a side note the Perfect Jesus apparently misquotes the Torah here.

23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

He calls Zacharias the son of Barachias.

Well this is a problem because down below in 2 Chronicles.

24:20 And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you.

24:21 And they conspired against him, and stoned him with stones at the commandment of the king in the court of the house of the LORD.

Zacharias (Zechariah and Zarcharias are variant spellings of the same name, much like Johnathan and Jonathan) was the son of Jehoiada, but Jesus said he was the son of Barachias. It seems like Jesus was referring to the Zechariah mentioned in 2 Chronicles because Jesus mentions that he was "slew between the temple and the altar." In 2 Chronicles Zechariah was stoned in the "court of the house of the LORD" I.E Temple. Plus in the context of what Jesus was saying, he was referring to the Jews in general. He was accusing them of killing Zechariah. Zechariah accused the people of sinning against God, so he got stoned to death.

See a connection?

I realize that this could perhaps be nothing more than a small typo or error in translation in an apparently inerrant book, but I still felt it was relevant.

Suffice to say, my question is this. Was Jesus mistaken? It certainly seems so.

Note: All theses passages were taken from the Old King James version.

wait... you mean to tell me there are inconsistencies in what people believe and what is in the Bible or other religious texts?

I don't believe it!

Originally posted by inimalist
wait... you mean to tell me there are inconsistencies in what people believe and what is in the Bible or other religious texts?

I don't believe it!

Did I do something wrong here and provoke sarcasm, or was that directed at people who believe the Bible is inerrant?

i can not comment on the zecharias thing but i am pretty sure jesus was not referring to a literal generation. i am also pretty sure that the bible says that no one can know when judgment day will begin except for him so jesus using a literal measurement of time to reveal gods judgment day would be pointless. i think he was speaking metaphorically with "this generation" referring to mans time on earth period.

Originally posted by Autokrat
Did I do something wrong here and provoke sarcasm, or was that directed at people who believe the Bible is inerrant?

I'm making a joke, so don't take it so personally, but it really isn't hard to go through a book and find parts that aren't congruent.

People have combed the bible to death looking for such instances. I get it, and I get your point, but like, that record is so old, all I'm hearing is hisses and pops, dig?

Originally posted by inimalist
I'm making a joke, so don't take it so personally, but it really isn't hard to go through a book and find parts that aren't congruent.

People have combed the bible to death looking for such instances. I get it, and I get your point, but like, that record is so old, all I'm hearing is hisses and pops, dig?

Right, that's kind of what I assumed.

I just posted this since I'm currently taking Philo of Religion so its been on my mind a lot lately.

i can not comment on the zecharias thing but i am pretty sure jesus was not referring to a literal generation. i am also pretty sure that the bible says that no one can know when judgment day will begin except for him so jesus using a literal measurement of time to reveal gods judgment day would be pointless. i think he was speaking metaphorically with "this generation" referring to mans time on earth period.

This is an argument based on semantics, changing the definition of generation to rationalize what Jesus said.

Plus if speculating on when Judgement Day will come is pointless, then why would Jesus, a perfect being with all the knowledge of God not realize that constantly making statements about "this generation" would cause considerable confusion?

Eh. Nothing new really. There are entire websites devoted to all the contradictions in the bible.

Originally posted by Autokrat
This is an argument based on semantics, changing the definition of generation to rationalize what Jesus said.

im not changing the definition of anything. im pointing out that its very possible that hes speaking metaphorically and that would actually make sense considering the context and considering that jesus is known for speaking metaphorically. why are you so sure that hes speaking literally there?

Plus if speculating on when Judgement Day will come is pointless, then why would Jesus, a perfect being with all the knowledge of God not realize that constantly making statements about "this generation" would cause considerable confusion? [/B]

i dont understand how those statements cause confusion... im not confused when i read them. i dont speak for everyone obviously but... i dont see the problem that you see apprently.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
im not changing the definition of anything. im pointing out that its very possible that hes speaking metaphorically and that would actually make sense considering the context and considering that jesus is known for speaking metaphorically. why are you so sure that hes speaking literally there?

In terms of generation, I go with the typical model of about thirty years. When you say Jesus' definition of a generation could refer to all of humanity, you are using a different definition of what a generation is. There are of course multiple definitions and it is my fault for no specifying what definition I was using or believed Jesus was using.

However, why I think Jesus was speaking literally is based on the context of what Jesus said. Abandoning material lives and material values is a common theme in what Jesus said. Considering that it seems clear he felt that Judgement Day would happen in his generation, it makes sense to me, that Jesus would be speaking literally. To turn this around, I could ask you why you think Jesus was speaking metaphorically.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel i dont understand how those statements cause confusion... im not confused when i read them. i dont speak for everyone obviously but... i dont see the problem that you see apprently.

The confusion arises from the problems of taking what Jesus said literally. If Judgement Day was supposed to happen in Jesus' generation (it clearly didn't), then each subsequent generation has to wonder if Jesus was mistaken. If Jesus is mistaken, then he is not a perfect being and its entirely possible he could be mistaken elsewhere. Jesus said that the end would happen and yet it hasn't happened yet. There is a contradiction between what Jesus said and what actually happened. This to me, is valid cause for confusion.

The first one can be read as "the generation will last until this happens" but that's probably due to how flowery the King James translation is.

As for the "literal vs metaphorical" debate, that strikes me as unresolveable. We don't know what the popular conciousness was like at the time each book was written and Jesus spends more than half his page time speaking in blatant metaphors/parables. Not to mention the problems of translating between both languages and cultures at the same time. I'd suggest watching the Star Trek episode "Darmok" to demonstrate what I'm talking about but that would be a very nerdy reference.

And again, this isn't any sort of wonderous new revelation.

Originally posted by Autokrat
Most evangelical Christians think that we live in the end times, that Jesus will soon be coming back to rapture up all the true believers etc etc...

However, Jesus seems to disagree.

From Matthew Chapter 24:

The words "this generation" clearly refer to the current or present generation of Jesus' day. It's not "that generation" or "a distant generation" its "this generation."

There are other instances where "this generation" is also used.

From Matthew Chapter 23

Once again Jesus refers to his generation, clearly using "this generation."

Unless we think Jesus measures generations in lengths of 2,000 years, there is an apparent problem here.

Last I checked, Judgement Day didn't happen 2,000 years ago, yet Jesus seems to think it would happen within his generation.

Perhaps the perfect Jesus was mistaken?

Of course if Jesus is mistaken on something rather important like the timing of Judgement Day, then how can we trust that he was accurate elsewhere?

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus constantly gives warnings like this about how the end is near. He tells people to abandon everything and prepare for God's return. Why? Unless he thought that Judgement Day was going to happen soon.

As a side note the Perfect Jesus apparently misquotes the Torah here.

He calls Zacharias the son of Barachias.

Well this is a problem because down below in 2 Chronicles.

Zacharias (Zechariah and Zarcharias are variant spellings of the same name, much like Johnathan and Jonathan) was the son of Jehoiada, but Jesus said he was the son of Barachias. It seems like Jesus was referring to the Zechariah mentioned in 2 Chronicles because Jesus mentions that he was "slew between the temple and the altar." In 2 Chronicles Zechariah was stoned in the "court of the house of the LORD" I.E Temple. Plus in the context of what Jesus was saying, he was referring to the Jews in general. He was accusing them of killing Zechariah. Zechariah accused the people of sinning against God, so he got stoned to death.

See a connection?

I realize that this could perhaps be nothing more than a small typo or error in translation in an apparently inerrant book, but I still felt it was relevant.

Suffice to say, my question is this. Was Jesus mistaken? It certainly seems so.

Note: All theses passages were taken from the Old King James version.