Originally posted by Lightsnake
C'Baoth was mind controlling the population of Weyland..Given C'Baoth was kind of a joke next to Dooku back in the day, too..
C'baoth was controlling a small city, was he not? Furthermore, C'Baoth was one of the most revered Jedi Masters in the Order. Far from a joke next to Dooku.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sabers? Dooku takes him. Handily
Evidence?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
He killed ONE with uncontrolled bursts
And he has since has time to gain control. How is that a problem?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
You mean he gathered it right before he died and never used any, right?
Granted he didn't have a ton of time, but to say he never used any is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
The latter is a feat surpassed by C'Baoth of all people.
How do you figure that C'baoth surpassed it? Furthermore, would that not just go to show that Dooku is inferior in the Force to C'Baoth as well? What can you show from Dooku that surpasses either feat? Also, might the clone have become more powerful than when he left the Order with several decades of time to kill?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
The former Wow, he beat Vodo, who was a total joke compared to the top tiers
Where did you gather this from?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Killed the spirit of Nadd in a way having nothing to do with personal power, right? Was 'able' to exist He used a ritual to anchor his spirit and screwed up and trapped himself
How did it have nothing to do with personal power? Will he be fighting naked?
How does using a ritual make it any less impressive? Is there even any real difference between a ritual and any other Force technique? It's all the Force.
wait a minute. C'baoth was absolutely NOT a joke. Remember him holding a missile in mid-air in the middle of a conference room? While the missile still had fuel, and was still trying to move. Yoda's showing exactly how difficult that was with the ICBM in Dark Rendevous speaks to C'Baoth's abilities.
Point 2 on C'baoth: He was powerful enough that Sidious came up with an elaborate plan to take him away from the Jedi order. THAT should speak to his ability.
Finally: C'Baoth choking thrawn from a completely different ship is something that only Vader has been shown to do in the mythology, so it is impressive as well.
Don't hate on the crazy dude!
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
C'baoth was controlling a small city, was he not? Furthermore, C'Baoth was one of the most revered Jedi Masters in the Order. Far from a joke next to Dooku.
Evidence?
And he has since has time to gain control. How is that a problem?
Granted he didn't have a ton of time, but to say he never used any is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?
How do you figure that C'baoth surpassed it? Furthermore, would that not just go to show that Dooku is inferior in the Force to C'Baoth as well? What can you show from Dooku that surpasses either feat? Also, might the clone have become more powerful than when he left the Order with several decades of time to kill?
Where did you gather this from?
How did it have nothing to do with personal power? Will he be fighting naked?
How does using a ritual make it any less impressive? Is there even any real difference between a ritual and any other Force technique? It's all the Force.
wasnt cboath ultimately killed by mara jade of all people?
i havent read the book in long time but in tLC she killed him and there werent even special circumstances behind it from i remember he wasnt weakened or distracted or anything he launched some lightning she sidestepped it ran up and cut him down.
that doesnt really sound all that impressive to me tbh. 😐
EDIT-
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Maracbaoth.jpg
lolWUT? she whooped his ass. 😂
i know.
he was mentally unstable but there are different ways of being mentally unstable. theres nothing that points to him being unstable in a way that would dampen his combat abilities. in fact it was during his times as a clone that he showed his strongest powers like mind controlling the entire crew of Thrawns ship and making them fight better.
EDIT- from what i remember his "instability" resulted in him having mood swings delusions of grandeur and paranoia. is there any other noted affects?
no, his strongest feats were his battle meditation against thrawn, and his holding the missile stationary in a room for several seconds while it attempted to advance. THAT is an incredible TK feat.
Clone != C'Baoth though. two different people One had many years of Jedi training, one very few. No way the clone was as powerful as C'Baoth.
er... it was a direct clone. same memories same mannerisms same body. where are you coming from in stating one was weaker than the other? experience is a completely mental concept meaning it exists only within in the brain similar to muscle memory with muscles ergo if a brain is completely copied along with all of its memories and thoughts any "training" or experience that goes with it is transferred as well.
youre essentially saying "no because hes a clone. and thats it". why? if hes stated to be a direct clonein every then there is no difference between the two. thats like saying dark empire palpatine and palpatine are two different people. 😬 its the same situation. de palpatine was cloned from his original self but still possessed the same memories personality and powers in fact he built off of those powers and became a stronger incarnation. you wouldnt say that de palpatine is weaker because he doesnt have the life time of training his original incarnation had, though.
Palpatine was able to change bodies with everything intact based on force techniques. Only the body was cloned. C'baoth was made in the same cloning facilities that created the clone troopers, they were not born with skills and memories, it was learned behavior.
Where is your source that says C'baoth's clone and C'baoth were exactly equal?
They were two different people, so for that assumption to be made, it had to have been stated somewhere.
Originally posted by LightsnakeGive it a break LS, almost none of us give a damn about debating SW anymore, this isn't the golden days of 2006.
He killed ONE with uncontrolled burstsYou mean he gathered it right before he died and never used any, right?
The latter is a feat surpassed by C'Baoth of all people. The former Wow, he beat Vodo, who was a total joke compared to the top tiers
Killed the spirit of Nadd in a way having nothing to do with personal power, right? Was 'able' to exist He used a ritual to anchor his spirit and screwed up and trapped himself
Originally posted by truejedi
[B]Palpatine was able to change bodies with everything intact based on force techniques. Only the body was cloned. C'baoth was made in the same cloning facilities that created the clone troopers, they were not born with skills and memories, it was learned behavior.
he was made with the same spartii cylinders but that doesnt mean he underwent the same treatment. the fett clones were deliberately cloned with different memories. since memories are nothing more than little impulses in our brain what would stop them from cloning everything about him.
Where is your source that says C'baoth's clone and C'baoth were exactly equal?
i dont have any that are available to me. im taking the stance that ive taken because i have not seen any sources that say they are different people entirely.
but out of curiosity why do you think that theyre different? the cbaoth clone obviously knew his fair share of force techniques. what makes you think that he is a weaker incarnation? its never stated that sideous or anyone else taught him so how would the clone know techniques such as lightning and battle meditation if he didnt know them already? sitting inside of a mountain by yourself for 20 years surrounded by non-force sensitives doesnt grant you the same force forte that trained force users have.
I agree that the clone likely was given C'Baoth's memories. Prowess in the Force, especially to the degree of Battle Meditation, doesn't come naturally. He would have had to have been given either years of training (by who?) or given his progenitor's memories and knowledge. Seeing that that is well within the realm of Star Wars stuff, it's entirely possible.
Originally posted by Ms.Marveli dont have any that are available to me. im taking the stance that ive taken because i have not seen any sources that say they are different people entirely.
He is a clone, not the same person, by the definiton of a clone. You certainly don't need any sources other than a dictionary to draw that distinction.
It is canon that C'Baoth died aboard his ship against thrawn. So therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE that the clone is the same person as C'baoth. Since they are different people, (albeit, both named C'baoth) then the burden of proof would fall to you that they possess the same abilities.
but out of curiosity why do you think that theyre different?
Well, besides the above, which is indeed proof, there is also the fact that the clones sped-up development in the cloning chambers had made the clone mentally unbalanced. Something along the lines of they couldn't make clones any faster than 10 years or something, and the C'baoth clone was grown to adulthood in less time than that. Thrawn discusses the point, if i remember.
If you remember, C'baoth, the clone, is a mental case.
C'baoth, the Jedi Master, (since the clone was never of the jedi order, he's not a jedi master) never became mentally unbalanced. He fell to the dark side right before his death, but he was in full control of his mental capacities when he did so.
If absolutely NOTHING else, a mental deficiency means that the clone would be inferior to C'baoth.
