Originally posted by Darth Jello
You mean like Lincoln-Roosevelt-Eisenhower Republicans? The kind that bust the shit out of businesses, raise taxes, and initiate progressive social policies? Cause that would be a nice change in pace.Unless you mean Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity. Those aren't republicans, those are fascists.
Hannity came out and said he's a conservative not a Replublican.
Both parties stink, why in the land of the "free" do we still only have a two party political system.
The Republican Party line as described by Reagan has always been (with a few notable exceptions) as follows-Your government, "we the people", is incompetent and corrupt and can't do anything right, so give all your money to all my rich friends and they'll be your government and decide who you can vote for and run things for their own benefit and you'll all benefit through something I call "magic". Mussolini said that Fascism was the merger of state and corporate interests but it's not fascism when we do it because we're America and we're exceptional.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
You mean like Lincoln-Roosevelt-Eisenhower Republicans? The kind that bust the shit out of businesses, raise taxes, and initiate progressive social policies? Cause that would be a nice change in pace.Unless you mean Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity. Those aren't republicans, those are fascists.
I am not a fan of any of those 3, except for Lincoln freeing the slaves from the Democrats and Eisenhowers efforts during World War II there are few other things that I could think of that i agree with them on.
We know, we know, you Democrats hate the idea of people being able to spend their own money and obtain ownership over property (except for that whole slavery thing they supported). Freedom is fascism to you, we know.
Originally posted by KidRock
I am not a fan of any of those 3, except for Lincoln freeing the slaves from the Democrats and Eisenhowers efforts during World War II there are few other things that I could think of that i agree with them on.We know, we know, you Democrats hate the idea of people being able to spend their own money and obtain ownership over property (except for that whole slavery thing they supported). Freedom is fascism to you, we know.
My interpretation of Republican politics (delivered in Ronald Reagan's voice): You're government (we the people) is inefficient and can't do anything right except die in wars and tell everyone what to do in their personal lives. So let's shut down all government programs and give all your money to my friends, the wealthy elite. They'll decide what's best for you!
Originally posted by Darth JelloPerhaps. That's not what happened though, is it? Government is huge and getting bigger and bigger and we can see the consequences everywhere.
My interpretation of Republican politics (delivered in Ronald Reagan's voice): You're government (we the people) is inefficient and can't do anything right except die in wars and tell everyone what to do in their personal lives. So let's shut down all government programs and give all your money to my friends, the wealthy elite. They'll decide what's best for you!
Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between the social democratic huge government taking care of everything inefficiently and the corporate fascism of the Republicans (though in practice there's little difference between either)
Social democracy is about as far away from fascism as you can get. Corporate fascism is a redundancy since Benito Mussolini defined fascism as a merger of state and corporate interests. Plus Social Democracy in Europe actually works. I'm liking the term "inverted totalitarianism" more and more to describe American style fascism.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Social democracy is about as far away from fascism as you can get.
Not really. Especially using your limited definition as brought forth by Mussolini.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Corporate fascism is a redundancy since Benito Mussolini defined fascism as a merger of state and corporate interests.
Well, a) he doesn't have the definition rights and b) that doesn't address in what way corporations and state are merged. The phrase corporate fascism is still a valid phrase.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Plus Social Democracy in Europe actually works.
Well, we have to make a difference here between parties calling themselves social democrat and the implentations of social market economy, which is much more libertarian than social democratic parties work. If you are in favour of a system as seen in France or Germany, I would agree that these systems do have value. But based on them you can still be more socialist leaning or more libertarian or more nationalist. So when you say Social Democrats do you mean a specific party line or the creation of a social democratic market system in the US?
Originally posted by Darth Jello
I'm liking the term "inverted totalitarianism" more and more to describe American style fascism.
It is somewhat accurate.
Ok, let's once again define fascism. The root of the word fascism is the fasces. The fasces was an ancient polearm made of hard treated reeds bound together with a single bladed axe head attached. It has always represented strength and security and was adopted by the fasci, the precursor to the fascists in the early 20th century. Fascism is essentially a modern update to feudalism that emerged in the early 20th century and continues to exist to this day. There are several brands of fascism including Democratic Fascism, Benevolent Autocracy, Corporatism, inverted totalitarianism, and National Socialism but all fascist systems represent certain commonalities-
1. The devaluing of public needs to that of the state or the controlling interests of the state.
2. Third-Way economics: the merger of corporate and state interests being defined as the collusion of the political and wealthy elite and the exercise of power by one or either party over the other or its people.
3. The legitimization of violence and terror as political speech.
4. The idealization of the masculine.
5. The maintenance of society via a police and military state and/or the artificial creation of a large middle class by redistribution of wealth from what society defines as dissidents and minorities.
6. Criminalization of and hard opposition to left-wing ideologies including socialism and communism.
7. The zealous idealization of conservative religious or traditional values and the demonization of supposed internal and external enemies not upholding or in opposition to these virtues.
edit-
Examples of Fascist regimes-
Italy under Mussolini
Nazi Germany
Vichy France
Romania under Ion Antonescu
Spain under Francisco Franco
Argentina under Juan Peron
Russia since the election of Vladimir Putin
Chile under Augusto Pinochete
Greece from 1950-1973
Don't really see any relation to Social Democracy in practice or in theory other than using government intervention to create a middle class which is the only way to create a middle class that isn't miniscule anyway.
Social Democracy-
A liberal democratic form of government seeking to combine the freedom and innovation of capitalism with the protections of socialism. The economy is that of regulated market capitalism. Utilities, banks, natural monopolies, the commons, and social services are kept either socialized or non-profit by law. A strong civil service exists within the state in order to keep unemployment down and the labor market in high demand. Inflation is driven by wages, not market prices. Benefits and protections are provided by the state. Government is democratically elected and transparent.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Social Democracy-A liberal democratic form of government seeking to combine the freedom and innovation of capitalism with the protections of socialism. The economy is that of regulated market capitalism. Utilities, banks, natural monopolies, the commons, and social services are kept either socialized or non-profit by law. A strong civil service exists within the state in order to keep unemployment down and the labor market in high demand. Inflation is driven by wages, not market prices. Benefits and protections are provided by the state. Government is democratically elected and transparent.
Transparent? That would eliminate the current administration from this definition.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Transparent? That would eliminate the current administration from this definition.
It never was. As stated before, America is an inverted totalitarian state functioning through either illiberal or fascist democracy.
Meaning that officials are elected by the people but do not represent their interests and power and choice of who runs as candidates is maintained by a rich elite over the state.
It's called inverted totalitarianism because in traditional totalitarianism the state trumps economics whereas here, economics trump the state, the state being defined by the constitution as "we the people".
And why does everyone think I've got such a huge boner for Obama. I've called him a pussy on this board at least 50 times.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
And why does everyone think I've got such a huge boner for Obama. I've called him a pussy on this board at least 50 times.
hey, you criticize Republicans, there is only one other option
though, about your definition of facism, you see it in a strictly Eurocentric historical perspective hmmm? I can't say I could define it any better, but can't a state be both fascist and not run by corporate interests?
Originally posted by inimalist
hey, you criticize Republicans, there is only one other optionthough, about your definition of facism, you see it in a strictly Eurocentric historical perspective hmmm? I can't say I could define it any better, but can't a state be both fascist and not run by corporate interests?
Fascism is always run with the direction or collusion of wealthy elites. Without them it's either communism or stalinism which are totalitarian and absolutely socialist with a planned economy. So technically no.