Batdude and Kahn's Match #4: Team Pr/Philosophia vs. Team id/King Kandy

Summary - Final Thoughts.
Team Untouchable has properly established, how Photon will make use of all his abilities. And properly refuted that Photon will be, “Unfocused” as seen New Thounderboltz due to an overlooked rule out.

To this day, and age Green Lanterns constructs are still susceptible to light manipulation. All it took to bring down Pr’ two paragraph essay, on GL immunity to such weakness exploitation was a single up to date scan. With the scan showing, yet another construct taken over by light. facepalm
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3669/ion9odororeo026.jpg

On the other hand, Team Philo/Pr have failed to properly refute:
[list=A]

[*]Their team can make proper use of the GL rings. They practically handed them a ten finger set, and pray Hal’s praising, or displays of solid will suffice the lack training. They even referred feats from Rookies (who by the way have also died in Black Holes), ignoring the fact that even Rookies have more formal training then either.

[*]They will pull off eccentric devices without ever knowing how said device works. Philo sudden Special-Ed explanation, in how background knowledge is not needed thanks to imagination, and will power....Well goes against what GL mythos have build upon over the years. 313wank

Here Kilo shuns Kyle to the side, because his back ground on genetics is what calls for accelerated mutation..
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0177/Untitled-Scanned-07.jpg

Green Arrow acknowledges his incompetence, referencing various factors in wielding a GL ring.
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/672/greenlanternrebirth0420.jpg
[/list=A]

Another mistake in giving rings to the Alien Duo, are the fact that they have yet to train them self’s against anything yellow. Just how effective can they be, when our entire team can emit a Yellow Glow?
------------------------------------------------------------

Team Philo/Pr announced a speed superiority over ours. Claiming we will never be able to react fast enough, to counter blitz by them. Again wishful thinking does little to trounce our team’s speed. Fact of the matter is, our team counts Photon full set of abilities. That includes his speed.

Genis kills Alien/Demon, disarms a terrorist, and races across space to save an alien on another planet. In each instance an application of super speed is highlighted. Yes, Yes, Genis can keep up with the fastest.
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6972/captainmarvelvol4001005.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5815/captainmarvelvol4001006.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/592/captainmarvelvol4001007.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5015/captainmarvelvol4001008.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/979/captainmarvelvol4001009.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3834/captainmarvelvol4001011.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1215/captainmarvelvol4001012.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9075/captainmarvelvol4001013.jpg
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9074/captainmarvelvol4001014.jpg

===========================================
If we play out the scenario applying prep, and strategy of both teams. Philo/Pr will bulrush focusing in taking us down as quick, and possible. They did not count on the fact that we are cloaked, or shielded. They did not count on the fact that we created a diversion, to keep them off balance.

And really the means of how they will find us are poorly refuted.

No, they aren’t. The ring is capable of scanning for beings, in this case telepaths, even when hidden at a subatomic level:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/HalSubatomicScanning.jpg

He can see down to microscopic levels and beyond:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9256/svisionix2.jpg

He is capable of seeing the whole spectrum:

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8543/spectrumgb2.jpg

Superman can see your souls:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/SupermanSoulVision.jpg

Or just hear you, since he can actually hear the Multiverse:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/SupermanMultiverse.jpg

Or just focus enough until he can detect you:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/SupermanVisionUniverse.jpg

Anyhow their exact location would be marked, and keyed in thanks to our satellite, energy lattice, and Cosmic Awareness. Just how much did happen, in between team Philo/Pr mauling though our diversion can be up to debate. But considering how our various advantages, and how easy it is to disarm the rings or size control of the constructs. I can assure you, they will not be at 100 %.

It goes without saying, our team will pick apart any construct team Philo/Pr can think off. Really I feel bad, for any group who picked up any Lantern of any Color. Before our Photonic manipulation, they are rendered useless. We should call ourselves the Anti-Corps.

I manipulate energy, Photonic Light….in this case, ambient energy. I withdrew every scrap of heat around him. - Genis.
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5955/v4cm200021.jpg

Sentry can draw energy from anywhere, and everywhere. While Photon can shunt it from anywhere, and everywhere. - Narration
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8394/newthunderbolts014page1.jpg

Superman, and Green Lanterns are screwed. haermm.

With absolute certainty thanks to various TP shields. The Green man is not a threat in terms of Telepathic assault, even more so since Onslaught can put up a massive TP disruption on a global scale, effecting all Earth telepaths.
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6900/theuncannyxmen33515.jpg

Lets say Jolly Green goes on the TP offense. We count on Onslaught, to intercept. Pr/Philo made the smart choice of not pitting Jolly Green against Onslaught. Because we all know Onslaught will b1tch slap Mr. Jolly Green.

I think Pr/Philo where unlucky to be match up against us. The character mismatch, is so great it borderlines being “Unfair”. Their case is not helped, by the fact that they used a tired tactic. We where counting on a Blitz, and a Blitz was delivered.

Team Post #5

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yes, I do consider the fact that he was obviously incapable of such acts as using a mirror, or covering his face, or just about anything less stupid than "GL said so", it does not offer great confidence. What if I showed a scan of Quasar making someone invisible and then saying "I think you're invisible, but I can't tell"... you would be all over me, because that would make it obvious he had no idea what he was doing. Ah, hypocrisy.

I shouldn’t even bother clouding the judges’ visual field with counter-arguments to points like “He didn’t know he looked from another person’s perspective, he should have used a mirror or something, that certainly doesn’t inspire confidence! He sucks with the ring!”.That is illogical and irrelevant to Superman’s proven capacity to use it. The analogy makes this even worse. It’s one thing to turn the person in front of you invisible and not known whether or not it worked, and it’s another to not know how much of your own indentity is concealed when using the ring. Which is, I repeat, irrelevant for Superman’s ability to use the ring.

Originally posted by King Kandy
All these scans prove is that with proper training, superman could become a great GL, not that he can merely pick up the ring and automatically be on level with even not the best GLs. He'd need to be above John, as you implied, in order to be able to resist our anti-ring tricks. Of course, you never offered any evidence that it was John's lack of skill that enabled it to be stolen, either, so it's kind of a moot point since both are equally unsupported speculation.

I have shown you scans proving that Superman actually experienced a whole alternate life where he was a Green Lantern and retained experience of it not only that, but he was the best of them. I have shown you recent scans of Superman easily using the ring, while Hal, considered the best Green Lantern, says that it’d help him be on top of things and that he’d be good with it. This is further strenghtened by him having one of (if not the) most powerfull wills in the DCU, the fact that he was one of the potential candidates, and the fact that in a potential future he actually outwilled Guy and took control of the ring.

You’re putting words in our mouths and twisting our arguments. He doesn’t need to be on the level of the best GLs in order to have him do the relativly basic things we’ve had him do. He doesn’t need to be above John in order to resist the things the latter didn’t for the simple fact that we’ve had time to prepare for those type of attacks during prep. His mind is protected with the telepathic inhibitors, on top of the energy redirected twoards the auto-shields.

Originally posted by King Kandy
At least it's better than your evidence of MM's GL skills (zero).

MM doesn’t need to have any kind of special skill with the ring, all he needs is the will. We’re not having him build complex structures. We’re not having him nullify Black Holes, contain Supernovas or perform space/time alterations. We’re not even having him make constructs of any kind. We’re just having him will/program the ring for certain functions. And he has plenty of will.

As we’ve already shown, Hal has directly stated that the ring is programmed to do what the user commands:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/gleverythingicommand.jpg

This is further established like, for example, when John programmed it to attack everything moving above the speed of sound:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glautoattack.jpg

And even more impressive, here’s a rookie commanding the ring to do various actions, but he can’t do it due to almost being depleted but, it still goes to show that a ring can simply be willed to do something:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/green_lantern_corps_quarterly_02_20.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/green_lantern_corps_quarterly_02_21.jpg

Originally posted by King Kandy
So because he once saw a guy with armor, he automatically knows how to reproduce that armor from one brief fight? I don't see scans for any of your claims here, but at least he saw the miracle machine in it's entirety, it's not like he just saw a guy holding it once, and was instantly able to recreate it.

You are unable to show that superman knows how to make it, or that you can make it yourself. You might as well claim "we build a device that makes our opponents die instantly", for all the evidence you have here. At least that would be effective.

Fighting a guy who did the exact same thing is a bonus, since that’s definitley not needed for our argument. Arguing that a Green Lantern ring, capable of various infinitley more complex actions (warping space/time, shielding against the conditions inside a Black Hole) isn’t capable of altering light’s wavelength is, well, illogical.

But, since you asked, here is him flat-out stating that he has scanned him, fully equipped, standing right in front of him:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/SupermanCellularStructure.jpg
Not to mention that, moments later, Superman was actually trapped inside that armor. (I wonder if he scanned it looking for a way out ? Tough one.)

But, like I said, it’s just a bonus.

You have a hard time grasping the complexity of what we’re doing, not only compared to what the ring’s capable of (much more), but even in relation to your own example (altering light’s wavelength =/= making a device capable of killing you instantly).

Originally posted by King Kandy
And the fact that they can't even override their rings natural setting is again, not inspiring great confidence in your plan. You don't even have evidence that it's possible to increase the auto shield in such a way.

How could it not be possible to do this, when the scans explicitly show the ring doing it ? 😂 The only difference is that the rings redirected the energy without the user telling him to, in order to protect him, while we’ll tell it to do it.

This baseless and side-statement “doesn’t inspire great confidence” that you keep repeating both here and in the Superman instance is quite funny, though.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yes, I am asking you if he's capable of surviving without the correct blood, and at the same level he otherwise would be. If it's so easy to overcome his weakness, then why on earth didn't he? Why does he even have iron-rich blood, if you're saying it has no impact whatsoever on his bodily functions? Once again you are throwing out sarcastic statements instead of actually addressing the issue.

Of course, that can be expected, because otherwise you'd have to admit that there is no evidence he can survive without iron.

You’ve tried using a one-time PIS filled issue, with a plot-induced weakness to prove that MM, a shapeshifter with complete control over his body, capable of altering the chemical structure of his body and turning into bone or regenerate from goo/a hand, can be downed and once this one-time weakness has been dealt with in a logical manner complete with scans, you keep going. Why he hasn’t eliminated it ? I wonder, does it have something to do that this hasn’t been mentioned again, and thus the need of him doing this is non-existent ? You keep going with the “but iron, the iron!!” and fail to see the bigger picture, completely ignoring what MM can and has done.

Originally posted by King Kandy
This might have been a point worth debating, except for the fact that he has Genis's power in addition to his own, and I have shown Genis's feats. I have also shown Quasar reacting to blitzes faster than the ones you have shown, so all you can do is post low showings. Not to mention, most of Quasar's low speed feats are the result of not being able to move as fast inside the atmosphere due to concern for the damage it would cause.

You’ve shown me a random instance of him fighting Surfer and the latter missing him with a blast, you’ve purposley mislead people into thinking Quasar being anywhere near lightspeed in flight by scan-manipulating , which is irrelevant to combat speed on our level anyhow and now, you’re randomly spouting “I have shown scans! You have shown PIS!”. No, I have shown scans from different instances, directly contradicting him being anywhere on our level, and it is consistent with Quasar’s history. We’re already handling Genis power-sharing but, not only that, Genis is nowhere near the level of combat speed necessary to properly fight us either.

Team Post #6

Originally posted by King Kandy
Prove that they are different. I know you carbon copied this tactic for Charlotte (bad manners to offer such advice, and even worse for you to accept it), but that doesn't excuse you from the task of actually supporting your statements. We showed Onslaught stopping phasing. What do you have?

Our team’s had this argument long before Charlotte mentioned it. Accusing us of bad manners is hypocritical since you don’t know what we’ve discussed. Furthermore you’re simplifying feats for your argument’s sake. “Onslaught’s stopped phasing” has no bearing on him stopping us for the simple fact that Martian Manhunter’s method is different from Kitty’s. Simple.

Martian Manhunter operates on a multi-dimensional plane while phased:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/MMMultidimensionalPlane.jpg

And Kitty has already been shown to be owned by magnetism-related abilities prior to Onslaught:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/KittyMagnetoPhasing1.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/KittyMagnetoPhasing2.jpg

Meanwhile, we have nothing from you. Not even actually showing Onslaught stopping Kitty mid-phase, much less actually being capable of backing up the fact that if he did it to her, he must be able to do it to Martian Manhunter. Switching the burden of proof to the other side, since yours is unsupported by anything in the actual comics is only natural in your situation, so I don’t blame you.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Cool. On the other hand, Genis was at ground zero and survived the blast. And Quasar's powers are now supported by his. Nice try.

Cropping a statement from our conclusive argument on why it has no relevance on us physically being capable of destroying your shield, and saying “nice try” would be cool, if we’d having a contest on who’s the sneakiest. We’re not. We’ve adressed Genis’ physicall durability awell as power-sharing. It can’t withstand us.

Originally posted by King Kandy
[BYou're trying to say that your energy is greater than that of the Phoenix Force (which he almost completely absorbed)? Once again this is part of your long stream of replies where you claim the power shown in my scans is nothing compared to yours, but offer no evidence.[/B]

No, what I’m pointing out is that you have no basis for your argument. Switching the burden of proof on me won’t work since you’re the one who brought this evidence in front, and it’s your job to prove that Rachel was at the level of a GL ring, much less 10 or 30. Saying “Phoenix” and expecting the argument to be self-explaining, when anyone who knows the character should know otherwise, is faulty. Meanwhile, we have Quasar saying that she has the raw power of a star and that she’s capable of destroying the British Isles. In the same panel. I wonder which one is hyperbole ? Furthermore, one GL ring has closed-up Blackholes and contained Supernovas.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Didn't you see in the second scan where he says he's going to take ALL of the power in, and then release it?

All he says is that he lets the power of the closest star flow through the Quantum Bands and as the power builds up, he releases it. That’s different from actually absorbing the star. That doesn’t work in the context of the scene or character, either way. He was only trying to get the attention of the Watchers/Stranger.

Even moreso, in the next page, he says that this has left him exhausted and he almost passsed out when he returned:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/QuasarExhauted.jpg

🙂

Originally posted by King Kandy
He won the fight by outsmarting them... yes, that IS pretty much the only way you can beat four guys with power and skill equal to your own. Not to mention, he won in the end despite being outnumbered and overpowered.

Absorbing his power is quite impressive, considering it was four Quasars at once that he absorbed.

As I pointed out, it is made quite clear that the reason he’s doing so well is because they’re powered by the exact same thing he is and that they neutralize eachother because of that, effectivly rendering your “four herald-level characters cannot directly hurt him!” point, considering the context in which it takes place, null. He won by running and outsmarting them. A good feat, but irrelevant for this match awell.

I’m not exactly sure why you persist with this showing, except for taking space and making it seem like you have an argument. Which you don’t.

Originally posted by King Kandy
[BAll I claimed was that the feat shows him being better than Surfer at absorbing energy... even you admit, he was capable of absorbing more than surfer. And since both of them used the machine, Quasar>Surfer still, in that particular category. [/B]

What you claimed was, and I quote:

Originally posted by King Kandy
Mother of all absorbtion feats; here he absorbs Ego the Living Planet in his entirety (Silver Surfer tried earlier, and failed to do the same feat... Quasar's energy manipulation is>Surfers):

Not only did you leave out the scan where it’s flat-out stated why Quasar has a better chance of absorbing it due to the nature of the quantum-power being more adaptive compared to the power cosmic, you’ve also interpreted the already misleading presentation to further twist the meaning of the scene in saying it shows Quasar’s energy manipulation > Surfer’s.

Scan manipulation is awesome.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He needed to make a quantum jump to catch up to LL, who had gotten a head start, and he didn't know where he was... the fact still is, it was stated numerous times in the comic that he is faster outside the atmosphere, independent of quantum jumping which has similar restrictions, but is a distinct concept.

Forgetting your argument again?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Quasar, when not worried about damaging the atmosphere, [b]comments that if he doesn't care about that he can easily match the lightspeed travel of living laser and proceeds to do so:[/B]

After another scan manipulation is pointed out, you’re backing out again ? How surprising.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He was "vastly weakened"? No, he was just really hungry. Like he is in 99% of the comics he appears in, since Galactus doesn't do much when he isn't hungry. Quasar stacks up against Galactus, as he normally appears in comics. And that's a pretty great feat for Johnny as well. Not sure what the point in pointing out what a herald level torch could do is, but if he has a respect thread i'll add it there.

In the scan we’ve posted, it’s flat-out stated that he’s too hungry not to deal with Johnny later. Furthermore, the fact that Johnny, like I pointed out, did the same thing in those conditions, renders the impressivness of it rather moot. Saying “Good for Johnny!” or “Yeah, but he like hungry all the time!!” isn’t an actual counter-argument, just in case I need to tell you. Which, apparently, I do.

Originally posted by King Kandy
[BI notice that you did not even address most of the feats I posted of absorption, including ones PROVING that he can absorb energy constructs (LL), and energy not of the EM spectrum (Jack, Presence, and others). I take it you're conceeding those ones, meaning my tactic would still be valid even if your complaints held water.[/B]

We didn’t reply to those scans not only because they were unimpressive considering what you’re up against in this match compared to the powerlevel his opponents were, but also because we adressed the “energy absorbtion” later on in a separate post.

But since it really needs to be posted:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/QuasarElectromagntism.jpg

Quasar directly admitting that he can’t affect something that is outside the electromagnetic spectrum. Being useless against something capable of manipulatig sub-atomic particles, atomic decay or weak-force ? That seems oddly familiar.

Sub-atomic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/greenlanterncorps218-12ocdhorus-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/greenlanterncorps218-13ocdhorus-1.jpg

Matter manipulation:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/bb60346a.jpg

Energy transmutation:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/4d2db178.jpg

Originally posted by id369
Dear Mr. Hypocrite, if your going to attack the use of Magneto and Onslaughts feats. At the vary least try to make reference to Hals own. Instead of you know pulling up feats from other Green Lanterns.

Mkay Thnx friends turning I - Id

Don’t confuse your inability to counter our arguments with hypocrisy, just because we’re pointing out loopholes in your stance with direct evidence.

Team Post #7

Originally posted by id369
Onslaught can indeed make use of Magnetos feats. Onslaught retains Erick’s and Xaviers memories, thanks to being the love child of their conscious merging. That is why Xavier has a conversation with part of Magneto in him, recollecting about the past over current matters (after Xavier Mindwiped Mags).
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1531/tr2o12.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3112/tr2o13.jpg
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3007/tr2o14.jpg

I see scan-manipulation runs in the.. heh, team. The same issue you’re using scan from, makes it quite clear that the only thing that Xavier carried within him were the emotions, the essence of Magneto. Nothing of his memory was said, or even implied:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/OnslaughtEmotions1.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/OnslaughtEmotions2.jpg

In fact within the discussion the issue reffers to, and the one you’re trying to pass on as proof, it was made quite clear that Magneto was nothing more than Xavier’s subconscious given form. Nothing even aluded to it somehow being Magneto’s memories maniftested (?) or anything you’re trying to pass it on as:
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/MagnetoSubconsconscious.jpg

Magneto’s memories were later restored after astra healed him, further disaproving the fact that Xavier took them in. (why would he do that in the first place ?)

Originally posted by id369
Oh wow congratulations at saying a whole lot of nothing. The scans practically spoon feed, the fact that Genis headed strait towards Shi'ar, with the Shi'ar admitting they are unable to locate him despite being dead in their presence.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8610/captainmarveliv04p10.jpg
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/2383/captainmarveliv04p14.jpg
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9610/captainmarveliv04p15.jpg

Since you can’t show that he has been able to hide from something even close to our tracking capabilities, you’re just going to.. repeat what you said, while saying that I didn’t counter anything? Hm. I wonder if that methods works for us too.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Without having feats to explicitly cloaking them from sensors above we are capable of, a random scan does in no way prove that it can do so. Illusions getting in the way ? Don’t be silly. Out team has senses and scanning capabilities that would allow us to easily bypass them.

It works!

Originally posted by id369
Magneto waltz right into the Inhumans planet, strait into the royal palace undetected.
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4339/tnoticehim9ea.jpg

That practically covers being cloaked from acute energy sensors, or high tech sensors. Hell we are applying the same cloaking method Brother Eye used, which DC Earth failed to perceive.

But I guess if you say it again maybe, just maybe, it will work!

Originally posted by id369
Nice word play, but its lacking an actual explanation as to why Martian Manhunter would phase through the shields. Because I can assure you Kitty Pride, is not the only character who has failed to phase those shields. Vision can manipulate his molecular density, and has failed to do so. Moonstone’s “ghosting“, has failed as well. Magneto’s shields has kept teleporters out or in. Even photons fail to bypass the shields.

You mean besides the fact that his dimensional phasing isn’t the same one with the ones that the shields have defended themselves from ? I notice you’re still transferring every one of Magneto’s feats to Onslaught as if the latter has the experience/memories the former has awell which, sadly, even if they were valid, which they aren’t, still don’t represent counter-arguments meant to stop us.

Also, notice how we’ve posted scans for pretty much everything we’ve claimed ? A strange concept, I know.

Originally posted by id369
[B]Speed
Pr/Philo speed advantage is not so clear. Onslaught is raw psionic given form, he does not have human limitations. To make matters worse his powers are thought base, and Onslaught can keep up with characters moving at the speed of light or react to teleporters.

Onslaught can consciously keep up with light speedsters.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5207/thexmenvstheavengers042xb7.jpg

Onslaught can react to teleportation.
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=MagnetoNightcrawlerReactionTime.jpg [/B]

If you’d have actually used feats from Onslaught instead of Magneto you could have possibly made a case. Unfortunatelly, feats of that kind for Onslaught are non-existent, and using Magneto only hurts your case, since claiming that he has lightspeed reaction time is, well.. haermm

Magneto having his consciousness leave the body and having it follow Captain Marvel magnetically alongside has zero to do with his actual combat speed. Him reacting to Nightcrawler teleporting from a location to another in an unspecified time frame along the magnetic lines, and on top of it sensing his location almost before he does, also has nothing to do with it. In fact, Magneto’s speed itself has absolutley nothing to do with Onslaught, since there are different bodies and consciousnesses.

I find it pretty strange, to say the least, to use this as proof of Magneto and thus Onslaught having lightspeed reaction time. Hm. Now that I think of it better I don’t think strange is the best word to describe it.

Reaching.

Yeah, that’s the one.

Originally posted by id369
[B]Strength/Raw Force
Juggernaut’s invulnerability can not prevent the beat down from Onslaught, Dr. Strange is completely amazed at the display of raw power.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/302/75137974.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2706/59076717.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9268/xmul1204.jpg
[/B]

We’ve got a physically amped, blitzing Superman with 10 rings enhancing his already top durability wailing on him. On top of the various types of energy, like anti-matter that we’ll assault him with. He has proven that, despite him handling Juggernaut, he is not on a level where he cannot be physically beaten, and we’ve got just the right tools to do it.

Originally posted by id369
[B]Durability
It took the combined might Heros Reborn Loki, Thor, Ironman, Enchantress, Fantastic Four, Wolverine, and Namor…to stagger him.
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4196/or5dcp0013.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/456/or5dcp001115.jpg
[/B]

Using Heroes Reborn? crylaugh

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/OnslaughRebornOwned1.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/OnslaughRebornOwned2.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/OnslaughRebornOwned3.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/OnslaughRebornOwned4.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/OnslaughRebornOwned5.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/OnslaughRebornOwned6.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/OnslaughRebornOwned7.jpg

The scans speak for themselves.
Forget reaching. You’re just desperate.

Originally posted by id369

[B]Raw Energy
A Surge of Magnetic Energy…intensified by an unimaginable telekinetic might. - Joseph
It was enough to smack down Thor, Rouge, The Thing, Joseph (Magneto Clone) etc…
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3903/xmen5517.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5462/xmen5518.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4035/xmen5519.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8867/xmen5520.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2479/xmen5521.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6832/xmen5522.jpg [/B]

Staggering a bunch of heroes with an enhanced EMP (electromagnetic pulse) is certainly nowhere near what it takes to down us, considering we’ve got our durability enhanced not only by 10 ring, one of them being enough to shield rookies from Black Holes, but Superman/MM would most likely be able to tank it just find under normal circustanaces.

At that point in time has has also already absorbed Franklin’s power, which renders the feat null aswell, since it’s speculation to say it didn’t have an effect on the attack’s powerlevel, even if it was for the most part an EMP. Even if we take it for granted it, like we said, doesn’t have anything on us.

Team Post #8
Summary:

The majority of tactics they were relying on in order to have a chance in this match have been rendered null, including power sharing, illusions, cloaking and shielding. What’s even more dramatic for their side is that, even if we take those into consideration, they still haven’t proven they are good enough to hide from, defend or counter us effectivly. We take them down hard, with tactics that they have no defenses or are specfifically weak against, from phasing, anti-matter to physicall assaults, all done at a speed our opponents can’t even percieve, much less react to. We’ve shown what we’re capable of, we’ve shown our opponent not being able to cope with it.

Furthermore, like we’ve already pointed out, they don’t really have the big picture of the battlefield. Obsesivly cloaking themselves and spreading illusions, while at the same time hoping to drain, manipulate our energy, shoot red sun blasts and others. Not only do neither of those tactics work, as we’ve proven, but they simply don’t have the time to do it. We’re far too fast and far too good equipped to take them down.

They can’t stop us. They can’t see us. They can’t counter us.

And it will be awesome.

Team Post #

First of all, i want to thank Philosophia. I've been having a hell of a time this week (work and personal problems), so it was nice that Philo could carry the torch when i either wasn't here or wasn't able. I'm going to start carryiing my weight in later rounds (if we do prevail), but for this one, he has my thanks.

Now, to erase the memory of such an awful chick-flick moment:

I would like to pick up on Pr’ comments concerning Photon first. While most would like to address Genis-Vell through incarnation, its still the same character with the same power set. The key difference between Photon and his earlier self’s is power. Photon is more powerful then before, and his Nega Bands have been absorbed into his body.

Proof of this is the fact that Genis-Vell official entry as “Photon” in the Databook never made any distinction to his powers even as Photon.
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7517/allnewofficialhandbooko.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7517/allnewofficialhandbooko.jpg

A handbook that has been contradicted by the comics (which i have already pointed out in regards to the differences between the men). So what, Parallax Hal and GL Hal are the same guy now, even though their powerset is roughly the same? C'mon man.

Pr you are on the right track, by identifying the root cause of to Photon being unfocused, or making improper use of his Cosmic Awareness.

Photon coexisting simultaneously across time, keeps Photon unfocused. However per rules sake, any form of time manipulation is banned. If the characters comes as so, he is stripped from it. That includes coexisting simultaneously across the time line.

Strait from Khan, regarding Photon and his past, present, future self dilemma.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5717/rulesif.jpg

which pretty much neuters his cosmic awareness, as seeing attacks coming would be considered precognition and is therefore useless. right?

False nowhere does it state in any comic issue sans insanity, that his Cosmic Awareness took a dive. In fact even as Thunderbotz his cosmic awareness still addresses him as near omniscient hence the infamous reference:

Cosmically aware, A universal, Omniversal, Telepath.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/Genis101/Genis/Photon/15-OmniversalTelepath.jpg

The cause for his need to focus comes from coexisting simultaneously across the timeline (as you pointed out). The effect is Photon receiving cosmic awareness from his past, present, and future selfs. But this issue has already been dealt with if you read above. Khan and Batdude have eliminated any form of time manipulation. That includes coexisting across the timeline, Photon exists strictly in present time. With the root cause of his problem removed, Photon can operate at 100%.

The following is proof that, Photon needed to focus due to receiving incoming cosmic awareness across the timeline. Disproving the myth, that his cosmic awareness has weaken or lessen.

I can explain Melissa, but you wont like it. Genis-Vell continues to have trouble “tuning his cosmic awareness”. His is trying to differentiate between past, present, and future, because he can exist in all three simultaneously! - Dr. Chen
http://g.imagehost.org/0320/New_Thunderbolts_018_page_07.jpg

Even when we have been involved in life threatening actions…he has been distracted. His cosmic awareness is allowing him to see so much. - Dr. Chen
http://i.imagehost.org/0305/New_Thunderbolts_018_page_15.jpg

i'm afraid i need to clarify something, then. my comments were not intended to state that the actual cosmic awareness itself was somehow weakened. it's Genis/Photon's use of it that is in question. He simply can't access it the way Insane Genis could, and even when he could access it to any decent degree, he needed time and concentration, something that this match simply won't allow him to have. And EVEN THEN, the actual usefulness of said "awareness" is questionable, seeing as Genis really has VERY FEW IF ANY feats of using it effectively post Insanity.

It's like having an tricked out gaming pc one minute, and then having a 1996 gateway with windows 3.0 the next. should do the same job, but not nearly as well.

I need to cut his quote, because all Pr saying is: “I concede to the fact that he can share his powers. But not to the full extant, and the team cant manipulate the powers properly with out the Nega Bands.”

So I will let his official bio do the talking for me, regarding the extant team ability to manifest Photon‘s powers. :
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/covencms.htm
Powers/Abilities: Coven's original powers are unknown. His alien physiology allowed him to survive lethal injections, and may have had an accelerated healing factor of some sort. It is unknown whether or not his alien physiology granted him any other powers or enhanced skills. After being given the power cosmic by Captain Marvel, Coven possessed incredible strength and energy manipulation powers to an unknown degree, as well as flight among other powers that go along with the power cosmic. For a very brief period of time, Coven possessed the full power of an insane Captain Marvel.

Just so the judges see this:

YOU'RE MAKING MY POINT FOR ME.

"Coven's original powers are unknown"

"It is unknown whether or not his alien physiology granted him any other powers or enhanced skills"

i mean, c'mon.

and as regards him having the full power of an insane captain marvel... so? you can't prove that insane genis' feats are applicable, and you can't even begin to state that onslaught and quasar are somehow = coven after marvel gave him his powers. sure, it's arguable, but it's not definitive, which is what you need to prove. coven himself doesn't have many feats, so you're relying on hearsay and a handbook, which comics contradict all the time.

Pr is refuting that if the team gained, Genis powers. The team would need to relay heavily on the Nega Bands. Fact is Phyla-Vell no longer has her Nega Bands, and she is doing just fine regulating her powers.

Rouge did well with out the Nega Bands, despite absorbing Photon’s power through touch.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/Genis101/Genis/Photon/HouseofM7-RoguetouchesGenis1.jpg

Honestly, what did Phyla Vell do that was so impressive? She can fly. She can shoot energy. She has decent strength and some CA. So does any basic kryptonian (bar the CA obviously). also, Phyla Vell wasn't given her powers by Genis, so the point is moot.

Rogue? You're using a HOUSE OF M (which isn't canon) scan to prove that Rogue was somehow decent with his powers? C'mon, guys.

The Nega Bands do nothing more then help Photon regulate, and control energy. Quasar relay on the Quantum Bands to do so. Onslaught can psionically control energy as well.

Heck, Ricky. I don’t even need “Nega-Bands” to control, and direct energy. - Karl Coven
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9310/captainmarveliv1215.jpg

Again, you're leaving out the big, giant elephant in the room: Coven has no feats of actual complex energy manipulation. In case you want to reference the above one, go ahead, but it still doesn't mean shit when Coven himself, and i quote:

"It is unknown whether or not his alien physiology granted him any other powers or enhanced skills"

And? Photon counts on Onslaughts mental shields. Photon own shield is more, or less a back up that double dips in hiding against telepaths and technology.

and that's perfectly fine. the only problem is that onslaught's shields won't stop guys that have TWO (yes, TWO) separate ways of going intangible. Well, except Hal, as he only has the one. One is more than enough, though.

What a let down, I expected better from you Pr. Even by CURRENT times, photons can still manipulate Green Lanterns “Hard Light”.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3669/ion9odororeo026.jpg

Ah. Yeah. The problem with THAT, is, it's inconsistent with Johns' own words. For anyone who missed it the first time:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/willpowerenergy.jpg

GL energy is not "just light" remember? You can argue that some light is enough light, but the FACT is, GL willpower energy is part of it's OWN SPECTRUM.

and just for show, here's examples of light manipulators being ineffective against Green Lanterns.

Pre Johns:

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p105/Manjaro_/IMG_0003.jpg

Post Johns:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/09.jpg

In that same issue, several pages later, the next time we see Doctor Light:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/16-2.jpg

food for thought, no? especially seeing as John Stewart himself is still standing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/13-1.jpg

Problem is, yes, some writers have seen fit to show energy manipulators affecting Green Lanterns at times. Not anymore, though. Your one instance does nothing to contradict the mountain of evidence Johns has been giving us since Rebirth. This being the guy that basically rewrote GL mythology and powers, i'm inclined to take his word over that of Ron Marz, as much as i love the guy. Well, i really don't.

Besides, the majority breeds consistency. Your scan is inconsistent.

Team Post #10

Summary Post

I'm going to keep this short and sweet as best i can so that if id and kandy want to reply, they can:

You can run, but we're faster.

You can hide, but we'll SEE YOU.

Judges might be wondering why Philo and I haven't been concentrating on defending our own characters as much as we have going after theirs. Well, the truth is, we simply don't feel the need to. it's not arrogance. We're simply confident. We have a very simple set up:

Have GL Rings. Charge GL Rings. Hit them hard, hit them fast, and leave them begging for mercy.

We know THEIR weaknesses:

(Genis sucks in physical combat (ktfo by Ronan. Beaten to death (yes, physically BEATEN TO DEATH) by Atlas. Trouble with the Hulk, etc. He relies on his own inconsistent use of the cosmic awareness. He's been trapped in a Sue Storm force-field by Super Skrull too (and btw, that's Surfer breaking him out, the same guy who's supposedly meant to eat his heart out), so a GL blast would incapable of stopping him? Please.

Quasar sucks against anti-matter. And physical combat.

And both are slow as hell. Us, though? Racinig the Flash. Crossing the universe. TAGGING the Flash. TAGGING Superman.

Onslaught? He can't stop us phasing. He can't stop us cracking his shell, and we can take whatever energy release he hits us with. He's going down).

while eliminating our own (Iron, Mental Attacks, Red Sun/Kryptonite).

We don't have to reach, because our plan is painfully simple, and yet INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE. If you try to hide, we'll scan every spectrum. If you try to use shields, we'll phase through them. If you somehow magically try to drain our energy, we'll get physical. We have answers to EVERY strategy you might concoct. We're versatile and yet powerful at the same time. We adapt on the fly faster than you can.

That's why, when the smoke clears, we're still standing while they're not.

Also, i did have a chance to see Id's summary. I'm not going to address it. Honestly, i have to be in work soon so i don't have the time. And to be blunt? I honestly don't think he's said anything we haven't addressed already.

sorry.

abccoffee

Match is over. Win or lose I feel greatly dissatisfied by the lack of consistent replies. More so after the 5 post blitz, 1 hour before the deadline.

good luck to anyone judging this one, it's a doozy.

Originally posted by id369
abccoffee

Match is over. Win or lose I feel greatly dissatisfied by the lack of consistent replies. More so after the 5 post blitz, 1 hour before the deadline.

real life got in the way, which we've already explained.

and the tension is palpable here at the battledome...will it come to blows?

Originally posted by Martian_mind
and the tension is palpable here at the battledome...will it come to blows?

Though I had assumed that since we had already had a one-day extension issues like this would have been avoided.

Delph's Vote:

There was a lot more to consider than I'd anticipated in this match, so it took more time to read it over a few times and factor the key points to make sure I got this right. Here are some of the main factors that attributed to my decision:

-It's clear from the scans that Genis gave Coven the Power Cosmic. It's stated explicitly by Rick Jones and Genis Vell on panel. Granted, Coven had an alien physiology and undisclosed abilities, but on panel he himself attributes his increased durability and ability to survive numerous execution attempts to his alien physiology, not the abilities that Genis granted him with the PC. Saying that, nothing Coven did would make me believe he was as proficient as Genis, but it clearly gave him a large amp of PC abilities, and at one point he even took on the appearance of Genis when he stole more power.

-I wasn't convinced via the argument and evidence presented that Superman and Martian Manhunter would have enough proficiency with a power ring to implement the plan and create the results PR and Philo were gunning for without any proper guidance by Hal. Nothing was presented to support J'onn's proficiency save a couple scans of his overcoming adversities, and in the case of Superman it's a couple scans of him floating/flying with a ring when he was powerless, and then experiencing a simulated reality in which he went to Oa rather than Earth. None of this gave me confidence that he'd be able to create a construct of the Armor which Zod used to filter sunlight, or anything else complex, without the aid of Hal. If you'd just had Hal help them, which I'm VERY surprised you didn't, you could have avoided any doubts, but instead you guys were steadfast in your belief that semi-related scans would provide all the proof necessary.

-I am of the belief that PR and Philo have a speed advantage, however, given that this isn't an in comic battle and is a forum battle, Quasar wouldn't be hindered by flying slowly simply for fear of atmospheric damage. The speed edge still goes to PR and Philo.

-I wasn't convinced that Genis and Quasar would not be able to drain the GL construct. Reading that scan being volleyed back and forth in it's entirety, it states that the Lantern Powers are raw emotions converted into an "emotional" electromagnetic spectrum, i.e., all emotions from sentient beings are converted into an EM spectrum for lanterns to utilize:

"The Central Battery the Guardians made. It collects willpower from every living being in the universe. Raw emotional willpower converted into energy. Amplified by our own a million times over. There's an emotional electromagnetic spectrum out there that can be harnessed and used. Green willpower is the most pure.

Not that Green Lantern power is NOT EM, but that it has a unique source (emotions).

-I wasn't convinced that J'onn could remove the iron from his blood from the evidence that was presented (his regenerating an organ, creating an exoskeleton, and regenerating from a hand). If you'd shown him turning himself completely inorganic and still operating as normal (which I'm pretty sure there is likely a scan of, but wasn't presented in the match for our consideration) you could have shut this down out the gate. As it stands, I wasn't convinced.

-Though Onslaught has both Xavier and Magneto's powers (seemingly amplified to a great extent), using Magneto's feats is not a very good idea. Neither is using the feats and experiences of other Lanterns for Supes and J'onn. I can appreciate what you guys are trying to establish (same powers = same options), but I have to remain consistent, and in a previous match when the Thor = Beta Ray Bill argument was presented it was dismissed, and it's dismissed here as well. That said, Onlsaught manhandled Juggernaut like a kid does a G.I. Joe. His own feats aren't exactly remedial, and I don't think Superman would be able to so simply manhandle Onslaught in any manner.

-The energy lattice grid was a nice touch and wasn't ever really accounted for by PR & Philo. Id and Kandy would always be aware of where PR and Philo were, even with the speed advantage. On the flipside, while PR and Philo do have Supes' vaunted senses, I'm not sure he'd be able to see through the space fold cloaking of Photon for their team to pinpoint where to attack. I also don't think the illusions would fool the PR/Philo team for very long either.

-Manhunter would more than likely be able to phase through id/Kandy's defenses and assault them. I wasn't, however, convinced they would be found given the space fold cloaking.

In the end, it came down to my confidence that id/Kandy would be able to siphon the energies of PR/Philo's team while remaining undetected, then take out the weakened team.

My vote: id/Kandy

As for the point system allotments:

Originality:
PR/Philo 1/5
id/Kandy 2/5

Share powers, shields up, amp, repeat. There's been a lot of vanilla plans thus far. id/kandy get a higher mark for the lattice grid and hearing devices to have complete awareness of the battlefield (nice touches), but beyond that it was more of the same. Need more creativity.

Effectiveness:
PR/Philo 2/5
id/Kandy 4/5

PR/Philo shot themselves in the foot by not solidifying their foundation and relying too much on general understandings than evidence. Yeah, Superman could be the greatest GL with training and experience, he's already greater than most GLs as a stand alone Kryptonian, but just handing him 10 rings with no guidance doesn't make Super Saiyan Sodam Yat 2 withut anything to base it on. Too much was left up to a seeming assumption that judges would be on the same page rather than concretely establishing the point. As for id/kandy, they kept it relatively simple: we have energy manipulators and shielding, we're gonna raise shields and drain your energy. The Magneto-esque cloaking was tossed out the window, but Photon made up for it. Always good to have contingency plans.

Debating Skills:
PR/Philo 5/10
id/Kandy 6/10

The debating was furious, particularly in the end with PR and Philo dropping a large closing argument, but nothing game changing was presented in my opinion. id/Kandy's plan was solid and effective.

Good match ya'll.

Now I'm on to Goober's Novel.

-Delph Digler

Batdude's Vote! (Yes, I'm presumptuous enough to put it in big font.)

First of all, I'd like to congratulate both teams on a good tourney performance. Both did an excellent job. It took me awhile to come to a decision here, but after reading through it a few times, and after careful consideration, I've decided to cast my vote for...

Pr/Philosophia

Imo, Pr and Philo did a better job at showcasing their team's effectiveness in this scenario. It was quite apparent that they were the one's on the offensive throughout the duration of this match, and had Id/KK on the ropes trying to defend their position.

I wasn't exactly buying the idea that Magneto's feats were somehow interchangeable with Onslaught's. Id/KK were putting quite a bit of faith into that particular point in this battle, which I felt hurt them. Also, I wasn't convinced Onslaught's shields would do anything in order to keep J'onn at bay.

J'onn has complete molecular control over his alien physiology. It's been stated many times, and shown many times. He has transformed himself into a wide variety of substances before, so to assume that the iron in the blood trick would still work when they had MM deliberately take it out is, quite frankly, ridiculous. This is just one example, but Id/KK didn't exactly use foolproof tactics when dealing with the other team's characters. Imo, they relied too heavily on easily counterable points.

Also, the GL rings require willpower and imagination... that's pretty much it. As long as one has the willpower, and can think of what he wants to do, he can do it. Philo did a good job of showcasing Superman's willpower, and proving that he is indeed good enough to create what they want him to create with it. J'onn, on the other hand, I wasn't actually convinced that he could really use a GL ring effectively, so I disregarded it. However, in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it really mattered.

What it comes down to, for me at least, is effectiveness. I don't think that Id/KK could have achieved all that they wished to while simultaneously getting speedblitzed by J'onn and Superman. Pr/Philo did a good job of showing that Id and KK's team aren't on their team's level of speed and reaction times.

So, I broke it down like this...

Originality

Pr/Philo: 2/5
Id/KK: 2/5

Effectiveness

Pr/Philo: 4/5
Id/KK: 2/5

Debating

Pr/Philo: 7/10
Id/KK: 5/10

Once again, good job to both teams. This was a really hard decision. 👆

Starscream's Vote:

I felt that at the outset, Pr/Philo's (hereon referredd as PP) team was at a disadvantage. This was a matchup of brute force vs energy manipulators. They have two characters (superman, MM) with known exploitable weaknesses. I was curious to see how they would build against it.

Therein lies the crux of the match for me. It seems ultimately, PP's success or failure depended largely on the viability of Hal being able to create 29 GL rings and then give them to his partners. Now, since the brunt of their success depended on this happening, I was disappointed they didn't go more in depth to prove this to be even possible, let alone in a 5 minute period. The scan offered itself said that it could occur only in times of great need. I wasn't convinced Hal could just create 29 rings. Also, Hal saying superman 'would' make a great lantern doesn't mean that in 5 min, Superman could be a great lantern. The evidence is very tenuous and requires a leap of faith based on a statement that I don't hold too much weight in.

That for me sealed the fate of team PP. I think PP proved that MM could bypass the shields but that won't win them a victory. I was more persuaded by Id/Kandy (IK) idea of their team exploiting the easily exploitable weaknesses of PP.

I found Id's conclusion that this was a bad matchup for PP quite accurate. Had team PP been able to substantiate better Hal being able to create 29 rings in five minutes, it would've been a much harder decision. My vote is for: Id/Kandy.

Originality

Pr/Philo: 3/5 - I thought it was quite creative their plan of how each character would use the rings. Unfortunately, I don't think they proved the viability of the strategy.
Id/KK: 2.5/5 - very comprehensive plan...their prep was standard but covered all bases.

Effectiveness

Pr/Philo: 2/5 - I didn't buy the main part of their plan (ring creation)...and unfortunately their entire plan depended on that aspect. Their plan did not seem tailored to their opponent and was more of a general brute force strategy.
Id/KK: 4/5 - I thought they did a good job of covering all bases and prepping specifically to exploit their opponents weaknesses.

Debating

Pr/Philo: 5/10 - good debating in general...but failed to convince me of an important part of their plan was viable. and due to issues IRL, the posts were sporadic and then came too late in the end with a post blitz.
Id/KK: 7/10 - effective. versatile. nuff said.

Overall winner: Id/Kandy

Total Score:
Id/Kandy: 13.5/20
Pr/Philo: 10/20

Good job to all participants!

Hmm... I didn't think these things would be so tough. I did agree that Pr/Philos team had the physical edge but id/King did a good job of minimizing that disadvantage. I also commend them on their use of the tournament rules to eliminate Genis' temporal awareness handicap.

I wasn't completely sold on Magneto feats being used for Onslaught. A lot of Magneto's greatness does come from his knowledge and experience. Nor was I sold on Martian Manhunter GLin' it up that well in 5 minutes, though on paper he does seem like a good candidate. Superman's evidence was a bit more compelling though. Still, I thought that id/King's plan worked better to counter Pr/Philos' attack and buy them enough time to do what they want to accomplish.

I really can't rank this because this is really the only tournament debate I've ever read here, but my vote goes to id/King. Good dishes, chefs.

Congratulations Kandy and ID, well fought battle from both teams. Though I'm left with a feeling that both held back a bit, perhaps saving their best stuff for later battles.

We certainly have more in store for later... I was hoping to be able to just trample over Pr/Philo, but it was way harder than I was expecting, but now we've seen everyone fight, so now I can more reliably gauge other teams and react accordingly.

This is for PR and Phil.

YouTube video

Originally posted by King Kandy
I was hoping to be able to just trample over Pr/Philo.

Ah, hubris.

313

Anyway, grats to both teams. I've been casually following the matches I'm not judging, though not reading them in depth. Seemed like a well-fought matchup. Deserving, potentially dangerous teams always fall early in non-round-robin formats.