Any argument made for her would come down to abc logic. ie; she beat shiva > bats = cap.
Cap wins Fatser, stronger, arguably just as skilled, experience, faster brain/tactician stuff, more durable. And yes he beats Batman aswell, and NW and Shiva and Connor and Slade. Just so future posters know wherei stand on ABC logic.
Batgirl's effectively super as well. She uses parts of her brain for fighting that Capt does not, can read moves before they happen, and has enough intuitive understanding of martial arts to copy styles ala Taskmaster and Echo. Her body chemistry's also unusual (not as much as Steve's, just saying).
Agility-wise she's also better as while he's stronger, she has less mass and is a smaller target.
Pure hand to hand, Cass, add in shield, Steve.
Originally posted by Q99
Batgirl's effectively super as well. She uses parts of her brain for fighting that Capt does not, can read moves before they happen, and has enough intuitive understanding of martial arts to copy styles ala Taskmaster and Echo. Her body chemistry's also unusual (not as much as Steve's, just saying).Agility-wise she's also better as while he's stronger, she has less mass and is a smaller target.
Pure hand to hand, Cass, add in shield, Steve.
Wow Use parts of the brain that Cap doesn't use? You know what the SSS does to his mind right?
She might know what he is going to do but she is not faster or more agile than him so she won't be able to dodge and I doubt Cass can withstand prolong punishment from Captain. Most of the attacks she does to him will be blocked of simply taken with not too much ill effect.
IMO she has the skill and her unique advantage to contend with him but not enough for a win. He has far too many advantages that JUk3n already mentioned for him to lose.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=442969http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=413382
Use search
I did.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Wow Use parts of the brain that Cap doesn't use? You know what the SSS does to his mind right?She might know what he is going to do but she is not faster or more agile than him so she won't be able to dodge and I doubt Cass can withstand prolong punishment from Captain. Most of the attacks she does to him will be blocked of simply taken with not too much ill effect.
IMO she has the skill and her unique advantage to contend with him but not enough for a win. He has far too many advantages that JUk3n already mentioned for him to lose.
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Originally posted by Lord Feron
Wow Use parts of the brain that Cap doesn't use? You know what the SSS does to his mind right?
It doesn't make him see movements as languages using the lingual center of the brain for fighting in addition to the normal fighting parts, though it does make him operate at peak capacity.
They both have mental advantages, but I just think Cass's is better. It effectively serves as precog + Taskmaster's/Echo's power in one.
She might know what he is going to do but she is not faster or more agile than him so she won't be able to dodge and I doubt Cass can withstand prolong punishment from Captain. Most of the attacks she does to him will be blocked of simply taken with not too much ill effect.
BG can dodge Deathstroke's enhanced speed and reflexes just fine, and BG's pretty crazy strong for her sized. BG's kicked through brick walls, bulletproof glass, and strong enough to crush a human skull before (plus she knows Shiva's moves and Batman's, leopard blow included), so hurting is not a problem either.
BG's mass means more rapid changes in body direction too, Steve has more Momentum. Just look at them fight- I think she's possibly the most agile HtH fighter in either universe.
I don't think it's a one-sided battle or anything, mind. Just that her mental advantages are somewhat more than his physical advantages.
Originally posted by Q99
It doesn't make him see movements as languages using the lingual center of the brain for fighting in addition to the normal fighting parts, though it does make him operate at peak capacity.
He doesnt need to he can predict what his opponents are going to do but differently.
Originally posted by Q99
They both have mental advantages, but I just think Cass's is better.
They might ben shes not physically tough enough either, or have the experience he does.
Originally posted by Q99
It effectively serves as precog + Taskmaster's/Echo's power in one.
Interestingly enough Taskmaster can't handle Cap h2h. Also and android that downloaded all the worlds martial arts got his arse handed to him.
Originally posted by Q99
BG can dodge Deathstroke's enhanced speed and reflexes just fine, and BG's pretty crazy strong for her sized. BG's kicked through brick walls, bulletproof glass, and strong enough to crush a human skull before (plus she knows Shiva's moves and Batman's, leopard blow included), so hurting is not a problem either.
No were not saying she cant dodge Cap or she cant hurt Cap but the fact is shes goiing to have a tough fight on her hands and the longer it lasts the better for Cap.
Originally posted by Q99
BG's mass means more rapid changes in body direction too, Steve has more Momentum. Just look at them fight- I think she's possibly the most agile HtH fighter in either universe.
I dont think so somehow.
Originally posted by Q99
I don't think it's a one-sided battle or anything, mind. Just that her mental advantages are somewhat more than his physical advantages.
Probably but its not enough.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Also, in terms of pure skill, i'd go with Cass, but like Batman, Steve has a physical advantage, and of course, more experience.
Cass's martial arts learning abilities are Taskmaster-like. Anyone's style she's faced, she has and incorporates into her own. Batman, Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Conner Hawke, etc. etc..
That helps a lot on the experience front (that and 20~ years of being immersed in martial arts).
Originally posted by Deadline
I dont think so somehow.
It's basic physics. More mass = more momentum. More momentum means more power, but also more power is needed to change directions.
Two areas that the serum can't help are momentum and target area (smaller target = more dodgey).
Interestingly enough Taskmaster can't handle Cap h2h. Also and android that downloaded all the worlds martial arts got his arse handed to him.
I think Tasky's scored some wins on Capt, especially in their earliest encounters. Tasky + knowing what capt's gonna do a few moments in advance + more dodgey = Cassandra.
Originally posted by Q99
Cass's martial arts learning abilities are Taskmaster-like. Anyone's style she's faced, she has and incorporates into her own. Batman, Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Conner Hawke, etc. etc..That helps a lot on the experience front (that and 20~ years of being immersed in martial arts).
Its not going to help when Cap is faster and stronger.
It doesnt neccsarily help because you maybe able to copy Cap but you wont be able to corporate it as well. Thats exactly what happened to that robot I metioned.
Originally posted by Q99
It's basic physics. More mass = more momentum. More momentum means more power, but also more power is needed to change directions.Two areas that the serum can't help are momentum and target area (smaller target = more dodgey).
Sorry thats a useless argument if the comics say otherwise.
Originally posted by Q99
I think Tasky's scored some wins on Capt, especially in their earliest encounters. Tasky + knowing what capt's gonna do a few moments in advance + more dodgey = Cassandra.
Except thats not the case in their most recent showings.
their was a time in Caps career when Cass would have walked all over Cap. back in the 80's early 90's she would have had a field day. it be like Cass beating on Robin.....
back then cap had trouble fighting Serpent Society henchmen and couldnt even hold his own against elite fighters from the hand.
the thing is his character evolved and it was shown a few times in comics of him training and learning new MA him even stating on panel after losing his 1st fight that he would not lose the second b/c he now knows how the person fights.
back then his only advantage was that he had SSS with basic limited MA he learned before he was frozen. now he has learned from experience training with team mates and has incorporated his skills with his physical stats.
i dont think it is a fair comparison for ppl to think Cap and DS fighting skill is equal or very similar in knowledge to me someone like DS is like giving a navy seal or special ops trained personal and thinking he is well versed in all the worlds MA b/c he has a civilian blk belt in some obscure MA.
i think Cap and his stats combined with his vast MA knowledge would tear BG a new one just like he would anyone of the bat family.
ppl need to stop thinking that cap's "peak human" stats are reachable to most humans. he is basically the nxt stage of humanity he is not the representation of the current humanity.
Originally posted by Deadline
Its not going to help when Cap is faster and stronger.
It doesnt neccsarily help because you maybe able to copy Cap but you wont be able to corporate it as well. Thats exactly what happened to that robot I metioned.Sorry thats a useless argument if the comics say otherwise.
Except thats not the case in their most recent showings.
Unless I'm wrong, the most recent showing Taskmaster pretty much had Steve at his mercy until Steve whipped out some random tech and knocked Tasky into the sea.