Kefka and Kain vs. Sephiroth and Raziel

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your making this up, Jenova moved planets,

No I am not and concession accepted, Sephiroth is the new Jenova.

Originally posted by Burning thought
it was never specified how until we found out Sephiroth needs to weaken the planet enough and take control of the lifestream.

Sephiroth didn't need to, he could have stayed in the same place he was regenerating, but he wanted heaps and heaps lifestream to absorb. Hurting the planet brings heaps of lifestream to the wound that is what he was doing he wasn't trying to move the planet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its been mathed, Kain can take thousands of tonnes of PSI. Sephiroth does not have thousands of tonnes in his little arms....his blade would also be too long, the PSI would be divided by the length of Sephiroths sword therefore Sephiroth would need to impale Kain (useless tactic, Kain would not even be amused) to have any hope of piercing Kains skin.

Is that the same kinda of math saying: "So and so can lift something really heavy that means he can't be pierced!!!!!!!" If so then it is wrong.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What all his blood pouring from his body would not kill him? meh....also when was he stabbed through the spine? Kain can lose his whole heart..

Sephiroth continued living as a "piece of flesh" he doesn't need blood. He was stabbed through the spine before he jumped into the lifestream, it didn't worry him. So what? Sephiroth lost heaps more then a heart and survived.

Originally posted by Burning thought
edit: Kain uses time aura, teleports next to Sephiroth who stuck helplessly in time, cuts Sephiroth into piecies and takes his spirit. (FF seem to be double screwed by Kain, as apprently their entire bodies are made out of spirit energy/lifestream).

Lol, Sephiroth would live/regenerate through the cutting into pieces. If Kain took Sephiroths 'spirit energy' or NL, Sephiroth would gain control of Kain that is if Kain can take the spirit of a being who survived a planet trying to rip his 'spirit' apart.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Excuse this reply because I'm horrible with Final Fantasy facts. A have very little knowledge of Kefka and its implied in other forums that Sephiroth hasn't used his full power in Final Fantasy VII. The potentialy really stupid question I ask is what's stopping Kefka's from destroying Sephiroth? He pretty much became a god in Final Fantasy VI so what's keeping him?

You can ignore this question if you want.

What is to stop Sephiroth from destroying Kefka?

Originally posted by K1ll3r
No I am not and concession accepted, Sephiroth is the new Jenova.

Sephiroth didn't need to, he could have stayed in the same place he was regenerating, but he wanted heaps and heaps lifestream to absorb. Hurting the planet brings heaps of lifestream to the wound that is what he was doing he wasn't trying to move the planet.

Is that the same kinda of math saying: "So and so can lift something really heavy that means he can't be pierced!!!!!!!" If so then it is wrong.

Sephiroth continued living as a "piece of flesh" he doesn't need blood. He was stabbed through the spine before he jumped into the lifestream, it didn't worry him. So what? Sephiroth lost heaps more then a heart and survived.

Lol, Sephiroth would live/regenerate through the cutting into pieces. If Kain took Sephiroths 'spirit energy' or NL, Sephiroth would gain control of Kain that is if Kain can take the spirit of a being who survived a planet trying to rip his 'spirit' apart.

What is to stop Sephiroth from destroying Kefka?

For the first two parts of your post I ask you to prove he could have moved the planet when he wanted to....prove your theory on him only staying because he wanted lifestream.

No, its the same math that takes into account PSI, (pound per square inch) forces and divides them by the surface area of a sword edge...

He was only mentally alive, he needs a body to be able to do anytihng at all in this fight which means he is defeated even if he is alive as a piece of flesh.

The planet didnt rip anything, by default all souls/spirits in FF world go back to the lifestream, problem is the lifestream is like a river that can be tainted, Kain is simply going to put Sephirths spirit (which just happens to be his whole body) into a little container (the reaver). Sephiroth would be defeated in one slash lol...

Originally posted by Burning thought
For the first two parts of your post I ask you to [b]prove he could have moved the planet when he wanted to....prove your theory on him only staying because he wanted lifestream.[/B]

Jenova could move planets. Sephiroth is the new evolution of Jenova as stated by the Creators and "Sephiroth has taken control of Jenova" as stated by Hojo. Then again in ACC when he says he will use the planet as a vessel just as his mother did long ago.

That isn't a theory that is what happened in FF7. Basically "Hmm, I want to be a god, while I bring all the Jenova cells I can together from around the world I will also summon a meteor to make the lifestream converge on one place so I can absorb it all."

In FF7 he wasn't even going to bother moving the planet it wasn't on the agenda, become a god was.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, its the same math that takes into account PSI, (pound per square inch) forces and divides them by the surface area of a sword edge...

But how are you getting this PSI? Was it from someone trying to stab him and they couldn't pierce his skin? or was it from him lifting something and the downward force proved he couldn't be pierced? (lol)

On the topic of toughness/durability Sephiroth can survive a planet/meteor landing.

Should I mention here that Sephiroth can attack so fast that light waves/particles don't have time to reflect off the blade? That takes a lot of strength.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He was only mentally alive, he needs a body to be able to do anytihng at all in this fight which means he is defeated even if he is alive as a piece of flesh.

He can regenerate from that piece of flesh, bringing him back into the fight. He could also just recreate himself somewhere.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The planet didnt rip anything, by default all souls/spirits in FF world go back to the lifestream, problem is the lifestream is like a river that can be tainted, Kain is simply going to put Sephirths spirit (which just happens to be his whole body) into a little container (the reaver). Sephiroth would be defeated in one slash lol...

Shows what you know about FF7.

Yes and thier memories / being get pulled apart and join the lifestream, the entirety of the Cetra civilisation could only keep some of their memories together. Aeris could keep herself and a few other together but only with the help of the Cetra and Minerva (the planet).

Since Sephiroth could resist a planet who had taken apart the memories/being/spirit of everyone who ever lived I think he can handle a silly little sword.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Jenova could move planets. Sephiroth is the new evolution of Jenova as stated by the Creators and "Sephiroth has taken control of Jenova" as stated by Hojo. Then again in ACC when he says he will use the planet as a vessel just as his mother did long ago.

That isn't a theory that is what happened in FF7. Basically "Hmm, I want to be a god, while I bring all the Jenova cells I can together from around the world I will also summon a meteor to make the lifestream converge on one place so I can absorb it all."

In FF7 he wasn't even going to bother moving the planet it wasn't on the agenda, become a god was.

But how are you getting this PSI? Was it from someone trying to stab him and they couldn't pierce his skin? or was it from him lifting something and the downward force proved he couldn't be pierced? (lol)

On the topic of toughness/durability Sephiroth can survive a planet/meteor landing.

Should I mention here that Sephiroth can attack so fast that light waves/particles don't have time to reflect off the blade? That takes a lot of strength.

He can regenerate from that piece of flesh, bringing him back into the fight. He could also just recreate himself somewhere.

Shows what you know about FF7.

Yes and thier memories / being get pulled apart and join the lifestream, the entirety of the Cetra civilisation could only keep some of their memories together. Aeris could keep herself and a few other together but only with the help of the Cetra and Minerva (the planet).

Since Sephiroth could resist a planet who had taken apart the memories/being/spirit of everyone who ever lived I think he can handle a silly little sword.

That does not indicate how easily or how fast Jenova can move planets though....for all you know Jenova took hundreds of years to achieve control of the planet she crashed onto the FF7 one so your talking rubbish and assuming things, what we know for a fact is Sephiroth has never moved a planet, kefka on the other hand HAS{/b] and has used a city wiping laser.

I calculated the strength of the one stabbing him, then I found out how much [b]blunt force that would create moving at the velocity it was, then I devided that surface area so that it reflected the pin point of the sharp weapon being used, hence how you can work out the piercing force Kain survived, the blunt force (from an explosion or punch) would be that multiplied by the surface area, multipleid by square feet.

No he cant, he needed to connect with one of the three remnants to reform. Thats what we see, not him reforming from nothing but flesh.

Originally posted by K1ll3r

Since Sephiroth could resist a planet who had taken apart the memories/being/spirit of everyone who ever lived I think he can handle a silly little sword.

Your trying to compare a default force of nature to Kains sword which aggressively swallows his soul, this is not a matter of taking Sephiroths mind, this is just shoving his soul in a box.

Originally posted by Burning thought
That does not indicate how easily or how fast Jenova can move planets though....for all you know Jenova took hundreds of years to achieve control of the planet she crashed onto the FF7 one so your talking rubbish and assuming things, what we know for a fact is Sephiroth has never moved a planet, kefka on the other hand [b]HAS and has used a city wiping laser.[/B]

Lol, so you agree he can move a planet? great! You are just arguing how long it would take him which obviously we cant speculate on.

Supernova > Kefka.

Sephiroth could also mimic City wiping laser.

Sephiroth could also do some epic illusion trickery on Kefka.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I calculated the strength of the one stabbing him, then I found out how much [b]blunt force that would create moving at the velocity it was, then I devided that surface area so that it reflected the pin point of the sharp weapon being used, hence how you can work out the piercing force Kain survived, the blunt force (from an explosion or punch) would be that multiplied by the surface area, multipleid by square feet. [/B]

Wait, wait so he got stabbed? Tell me what thread or where this information is and i'll go have a look at this.

The force behind a sword moving so fast light can't bounce of it is greater then anything Kain has ever faced or done.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No he cant, he needed to connect with one of the three remnants to reform. Thats what we see, not him reforming from nothing but flesh.

Lulz. He needed to remember what he looked like. Getting Kadaj to gain the ability to see into memories allowed him to see into Clouds memories seeing what he looked like. He did absorb Kadajs SE but he regenerated from the Jenova cell inside Kadaj. (While he was still holding HOLY back the lifestream was trying to rip him apart, and Cloud was smashing his will with Omnislash which is why he lost his image.)

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your trying to compare a default force of nature to Kains sword which aggressively swallows his soul, this is not a matter of taking Sephiroths mind, this is just shoving his soul in a box.

You are trying to compare a sword that swallows souls to an entire planet that has showed more destructive and creative power then the sword and more durability then that sword.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Lol, so you agree he can move a planet? great! You are just arguing how long it would take him which obviously we cant speculate on.

Supernova > Kefka.

Sephiroth could also mimic City wiping laser.

Sephiroth could also do some epic illusion trickery on Kefka.

Wait, wait so he got stabbed? Tell me what thread or where this information is and i'll go have a look at this.

The force behind a sword moving so fast light can't bounce of it is greater then anything Kain has ever faced or done.

Lulz. He needed to remember what he looked like. Getting Kadaj to gain the ability to see into memories allowed him to see into Clouds memories seeing what he looked like. He did absorb Kadajs SE but he regenerated from the Jenova cell inside Kadaj. (While he was still holding HOLY back the lifestream was trying to rip him apart, and Cloud was smashing his will with Omnislash which is why he lost his image.)

You are trying to compare a sword that swallows souls to an entire planet that has showed more destructive and creative power then the sword and more durability then that sword.

Supernova is damn slow.

Never done it.

War/link vs the 3, in the thread below this one when I bump it with this reply.

Your talking rubbish, that much I know. You need to show a feat and furthermore light not bouncing off something is irrelvent, it just may mean the sword is not reflective.

Hence he still needed Kadaj body, he didnt regenerate from the cell by himself....you lose.

Well we know Jenovah did, and Sephiroth never actually moved a planet therefore its not a feat, therefore not really an argument that can help him in a VS.

Durability= irrelevent
Creative power= Irrelvent
Entire planet did not swallow his soul, only the portion of the lifestream. Him defying a planet thats not aggressively attacking his soul (its not a soul devourer, it just absorbs them because its a natural process like hte Elder God who cant even attempt to attack Vampire souls) cannot be compared to an attack that will devour his soul.

What Sephiroth did was a lesser feat, thats not really relevant anyway.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Supernova is damn slow.

It's as fast as the illusion he uses.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Never done it.

It's an ability that he has, the ability to mimic attacks, people and read peoples minds mimicing people or abilities from thier memories.

Originally posted by Burning thought
War/link vs the 3, in the thread below this one when I bump it with this reply.

Checking it out now. Been reading it for ages now, lots of random stuff like Link being able to react to supersonic speeds and having retarded durability. I see one post by you saying 1.3 megatonnes of force but with no information.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your talking rubbish, that much I know. You need to show a feat and furthermore light not bouncing off something is irrelvent, it just may mean the sword is not reflective.

Umm, I think you would need to prove a sword is not reflective seeing as a normal sword is always reflective.

Eh, Dissida is my feat, specifically the Cloud vs Sephiroth cutscene where it goes slowmo and Sephiroth can't be seen moving at all in his many attacks.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hence he still needed Kadaj body, he didnt regenerate from the cell by himself....you lose.

You don't get it. He did regenerate from the cell by himself, he just didn't get his image by himself 'cause he was chillin in the lifestream like a mad dog.

Sephiroth wouldn't die from the sword slices. He took a massive sword through his body and it didn't worry him at all, he wasn't close to dieing. He could walk and everything fine straight away even though his spine would have been severed.

That feat alone is enough that any slice that Kain does will not kill Pre-Nib Sephiroth.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well we know Jenovah did, and Sephiroth never actually moved a planet therefore its not a feat, therefore not really an argument that can help him in a VS.

Sephiroth has taken over Jenova remember?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Durability= irrelevent
Creative power= Irrelvent
Entire planet did not swallow his soul, only the portion of the lifestream. Him defying a planet thats not aggressively attacking his soul (its not a soul devourer, it just absorbs them because its a natural process like hte Elder God who cant even attempt to attack Vampire souls) cannot be compared to an attack that will devour his soul.

Destructive power is though, and it's destructive power is greater then the swords.

Yes it did, inside every body is it's spirity energy, this includes the planet which is The Lifestream which flows around everywhere mixing memories altogether into a massive mass.

Minerva (The planet and the Lifestream) is more powerful then the sword and it couldn't pull apart Sephiroths being and it couldn't destroy Jenova cells.

Originally posted by Burning thought

What Sephiroth did was a lesser feat, thats not really relevant anyway.

No the swords soul absorption is a lesser feat then a planet attempting to rip your being apart.

I may be resurrecting an old thread here but, Sephiroth was able to stand much more than 1.3 megatons, according to what another user has said.

Based on?

From Sephs speed he can defiantly kill one or both (not sure about Kefka) especially with Raziel as a second aiding.

Kefka solos the thread.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Kefka solos the thread.

Either of team 1 can solo. Especially if Kain takes Kefkas powers as well.

You misunderstand.

When I said "Kefka solos the thread," I meant he could beat Sephiroth, Raziel, and his own team-mate Kain at the same time.

Ah well thats where your wrong. Its actually the reverse.

Nah you're wrong.

oh good you changed it.

0.2 second movement/reaction teleportation says otherwise.