Originally posted by Harbinger
Never seen Apoc display FTL reflexes on panel, though. DD keeps up with Supes (who we know is FTL) and has steadily shown the ability to son him H2H.Apoc is sorely out of his league here.
Have you seen his fights with HE and Ikaris? He does his teleporting thing.
He had the upper advantage over Loki who is >>>>>Superman and Doomsday.
and Superman has blitzed DD before.
doomsday keeping up with "ftl" superman is a forum myth, how it keeps being perpetuated is mystery to me. not saying he's slow but he doesn't gain superman's supposed speed (hint* superman wasn't faster than light, the word you're looking for rhymes with light though)
just by not getting blown out by his speed.
apocalypse can just will jets and whatever to simulate high speed travel, or use his levitation powers to move fast. he's also capable of pulling off plasticman-esk malleability, and without pis in the equation he can't be stretched to incapacitation (apocalypse could reform from being torn anyway)
and people are forgetting that apocalypse's body isn't easy to adapt to, he has hundreds of on panel transformations which are only the tip of the iceberg of what he could do and that's just talking about his atomic restructuring alone, without mixing it with his other abilities.
stalemate
Neither HE nor Ikaris are FTL.
Loki is not Supes/DD.
Superman has blitzed DD before (though I can only remember him doing this to DOS DD), but Doomsday has regularly gotten the upper hand on Supes in H2H combat. Hell, even DOS Doomsday was a team wrecker; one of DD's weaker incarnations would give Apoc trouble.
Apoc has the versatility, and the skillset to beat DOS Doomsday given that that version was put down by sheer brute force. He has no shot against any other version; he simply doesn't have the speed, nor the power required to put him down.
Originally posted by Harbinger
Neither HE nor Ikaris are FTL.Loki is not Supes/DD.
Superman has blitzed DD before (though I can only remember him doing this to DOS DD), but Doomsday has regularly gotten the upper hand on Supes in H2H combat. Hell, even DOS Doomsday was a team wrecker; one of DD's weaker incarnations would give Apoc trouble.
Apoc has the versatility, and the skillset to beat DOS Doomsday given that that version was put down by sheer brute force. He has no shot against any other version; he simply doesn't have the speed, nor the power required to put him down.
Their blasts are FTL(H/E and Ikaris).
Apoc can TELEPORT. Teleporting>Speed. Apoc can become as strong as he wants to become(proven), etc.
and Superman doesn't have FTL combat speed.
I find it funny how Apoc can curbstomp WWH in a thread but can't defeat regular Doomsday.
Originally posted by Harbingerthat's nice, nvr mentioned that at all.
Neither HE nor Ikaris are FTL.Loki is not Supes/DD.
superman barely does that also by the way, he's faster than the human eye most of the time, but then again so are flies.
flies are ftl right?
Originally posted by Harbingersuperman is faster than doomsday, dd just has the physicality to take and return the punishment to wera down superman over time, OWAW superman fought a shitty doomsday, but also displayed his best fighting ever. that's why he looked so damn good (no homo)
Superman has blitzed DD before (though I can only remember him doing this to DOS DD), but Doomsday has regularly gotten the upper hand on Supes in H2H combat. Hell, even DOS Doomsday was a team wrecker; one of DD's weaker incarnations would give Apoc trouble.Apoc has the versatility, and the skillset to beat DOS Doomsday given that that version was put down by sheer brute force. He has no shot against any other version; he simply doesn't have the speed, nor the power required to put him down.
apocalypse doesn't have to get fansy, he just has to grow big as shit then do his best rumble from transformers impression on the same doomsday rex and it'll be just as embarrassing. big deal.
Originally posted by galactusischere
Have you seen his fights with HE and Ikaris? He does his teleporting thing.He had the upper advantage over Loki who is >>>>>Superman and Doomsday.
and Superman has blitzed DD before.
That incarnation of the High Evolutionary was not at full power. The High Evolutionary at full power managed to go toe-to-toe with Galactus. Furthermore, Apocalypse never completely defeated Loki anyway, especially since Apocalypse is vulnerable to Loki's magical powers.
Originally posted by galactusischere
Their blasts are FTL(H/E and Ikaris).Apoc can TELEPORT. Teleporting>Speed. Apoc can become as strong as he wants to become(proven), etc.
and Superman doesn't have FTL combat speed.
I find it funny how Apoc can curbstomp WWH in a thread but can't defeat regular Doomsday.
As for Apoc, a few things:
- I've already conceded that Apoc can defeat DOS Doomsday
- When the hell has Apoc shown that he can become "as strong as he wants to become?" What's his best strength feat, because I'm willing to bet it pales in comparison to what DD has done on panel.
- Apoc curbstomps WWH because Hulk is a one trick pony: he's got brute strength as that's about it. Doomsday not only has great strength, but insane adaptability as well.
Originally posted by Harbinger
Please. It's been shown on this forum time and time again that Supes has FTL combat speed. I don't really feel like going down that road with you.As for Apoc, a few things:
- I've already conceded that Apoc can defeat DOS Doomsday
- When the hell has Apoc shown that he can become "as strong as he wants to become?" What's his best strength feat, because I'm willing to bet it pales in comparison to what DD has done on panel.
- Apoc curbstomps WWH because Hulk is a one trick pony: he's got brute strength as that's about it. Doomsday not only has great strength, but insane adaptability as well.
Regarding Apocalypse's strength: He managed to restrain the Hulk, who was in an enraged state.
Originally posted by psycho gundamThe remarks concerning Ikaris weren't directed towards you.
that's nice, nvr mentioned that at all.superman barely does that also by the way, he's faster than the human eye most of the time, but then again so are flies.
flies are ftl right?
superman is faster than doomsday, dd just has the physicality to take and return the punishment to wera down superman over time, OWAW superman fought a shitty doomsday, but also displayed his best fighting ever. that's why he looked so damn good (no homo)
apocalypse doesn't have to get fansy, he just has to grow big as shit then do his best rumble from transformers impression on the same doomsday rex and it'll be just as embarrassing. big deal.
Supes may be faster than DD, but at the very least, DD has to have tremendous reflexes not only to keep up with Supes, but to beat him H2H (which he has done, multiple times). He hasn't always had to simply wear Supes down, either; hell, a Mother Box-amped Supes got swatted away by HP DD.
Again, I agree that Apoc can easily take DD's weaker incarnations. I still think he has no shot against HP or Gog Wars DD, though.