Alexander Luthor Jr. vs Reed Richards

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, as God I don't really feel Metron and his really adhere to the same rules as 'moral' heroes or villains, and I count him differently. It was implied that Orion built the Genesis Box, a device capable of coverting the energy universe into pure energy and rebirthing it as something new...and he's not at all technology genius. A number of subtle hints over the years peppered throughout the Kirby, Morrison, Simonson, Gerber and Evanier work on the characters imply that the technology of the New Gods is really just a metaphor for their power.

Originally posted by Desaad
And I've said it before and I'll say it again, as God I don't really feel Metron and his really adhere to the same rules as 'moral' heroes or villains, and I count him differently. It was implied that Orion built the Genesis Box, a device capable of coverting the energy universe into pure energy and rebirthing it as something new...and he's not at all technology genius. A number of subtle hints over the years peppered throughout the Kirby, Morrison, Simonson, Gerber and Evanier work on the characters imply that the technology of the New Gods is really just a metaphor for their power.

JLA Rock of Ages? I don't think it was states that Orion built it. I've read some debates here and there and Orion never said he built it. Only that he was able to use it. Someone could have given him that. Like Metron or Himon.

Metron was a slave of Darkseid. And Himon never showed that level of technological no how, nor would that explain why he didn't use it himself. Additionally, from what we saw, Orion was the last New God of New Genesis left. And even he was shorn of his divinity.

Good points. I didn't think of that.

BTW, I think you're forgetting Brainaic 5. I think he and Reed would be some good interaction. B5 would be a snobby little bastard, but he'd be amazed at Reed and vice versa.

Originally posted by Desaad
I don't think there is any 'arguable' about it. He is much, MUCH smarter than Thanos, and he's proven his superiority over Doom time and time again.

And yeah, because Alexander Luthor has one or two things only under his belt, I guess he'd win. Because his one thing is huge. But I'd have trouble giving him the win over Reed, who really just pulls whatever he needs out of his @$$ whenever he needs it.

I agree with you about Reed. The dude's a walking plot device.

One thing Alex has over Reed is manipulation. He's very good at it. Not just a scientist supreme. Plus, he's from the Pre-Crisis era and they, too can pull crap out of their asses.

PC Lex Luthor for example.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Good points. I didn't think of that.

BTW, I think you're forgetting Brainaic 5. I think he and Reed would be some good interaction. B5 would be a snobby little bastard, but he'd be amazed at Reed and vice versa.

Brainiac 5 is certainly in the running for 'single most powerful invention', I think.

Alexander Luthor wasn't that great at manipulation, actually, and Reed has shown himself to be pretty strategically intelligent.

In Crisis on Infinite Earths, Luthor was a pure-as-the-driven-snow good guy. Ultimately Luthor couldn't control Superboy Prime, and was pretty afraid of him. And, of course, he was killed dead by the Joker.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
[B]Yes, a single feat comparable, or even surpasses, most Pre-Crisis feats.

In terms of power level, sure.

In terms of ridiculousness, though, no way. Not when you've got Lex Luthor making time machines out of orange juice boxes and used tins of tuna.

Originally posted by Desaad
Brainiac 5 is certainly in the running for 'single most powerful invention', I think.

Details? Are you talking about the one where he stopped an asteroid or something? Pre-crisis? What? I'm pretty new to the LOSH, but they are becoming MY FAVORITE team.

I don't really know what you're referring to, but I'm talking about The Concentrator. It's a device that drains all the energy out of the universe for whatever effect is desired. Literally, while it it is in use there is supposedly no energy in the universe - stars wink out, all nuclear/electrical power is gone (though, strangely, the 'power' within your body doesn't seem to disappear).

Basically, the Time Trapper flings a bunch of Neutron Stars at the Legion...

It's one of those things that you never think is going to be referenced, ever again, and then you open up Final Crisis 6 and you're greeted to this...

That's the Concentrator there in the first two panels, though without the audacious coloring.

HAHAHA! That's cool. This is why I love Morrison. He uses very obscure stuff.

The thing I was talking about was in Jim Starlin's last issues. braiac was strapped to a chair type device and he saved a solar system or something.

Good stuff.

Edited for the full pages, since the little bits I posted earlier wasn't enough.

And gotcha, that was quite a bit less impressive than the Concentrator thing.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Reed Richards is arguably smarter than Thanos or Doom, and definitely smarter than the "Scientist Supreme" Hank Pym by a mile.

As for this fight, it could go either way.

For all of Reed's feats, I've never seen him design and create something as complex as an actual working multiverse.

Eternity called him the Explorer. Explorer Extreme?

Reed Richards > Everyone.

Richards.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Reed Richards > Everyone.

Most of the stuff he invents, B5 could easily counter. So I doubt Reed> Everyone else.

Reed wins. Poor luthor couldn't hack it in them mean streets.

a powerless Luthor, yeah.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Most of the stuff he invents, B5 could easily counter. So I doubt Reed> Everyone else.

Reed > Everyone else.

Mathematical proven fact.

But honestly, Reed really is a walking plot device. Especially against cosmic beings. A writer could have him do or invent basically anything, if they wanted to. His brain is a deus ex machine as proven throughout his history. Apparently he can even stretch to make it accommodate problems.

The closest being I can picture in DC that can be treated the way Reed does in terms of deus ex abilities is Braniac 5. I love the character. His really interesting. I wish he were given a mini.

I want my Legion of Superhero stores god damn it! Honestly, walking piles of crap like Mangog get a book but the Legion is reserved to a freaking second feature? Man, I'm going to go re-read some Legion books when I have the time. Really miss those stories.

DC and their apparent inability to handle continuity really did a piss poor job handling Legion with all these big events until Final Crisis. I might not like Johns but at least he tried to solve it and he rights a good Legion story. I just wish he worked on his handling of power levels better.