Squall vs. Gabranth

heartlesshero17, what you do is, notice how every YouTube video has an = in them? It always has watch?v= and then a bunch of other numbers and letters.

What you do is remove everything before the equal sign and the equal sign itself as well. So www.youtube.com/watch?v= should all be deleted, leaving just the ltters and numbers after the equal sign.

When you have just that, put them in these tags

[youtube] then the link [./youtube] (don't include the period. Just the / youtube)

Sorry if I explaiend it badly.

YouTube video

Sorry for the random video. But awesome I got it. Thanks for the help!

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Gabranth uses the mist. It doesn't need to be stated as mist for it to be obvious its mist. Aside from using the mist in a way that was described in other cases as combining magic and weapons(one of the artifacts in tactics explains this as well except with guns I believe) but also remember that mist is the ONLY other source of usuable energy in FFXII world aside from Anima. Which are two completely different things if you understood Revenant wings

Now I say its vague (as are Squall's capabilities imo) because he used this ability on the one person who has absorbed manufacted nethicite, which is able to absorb, gain a slight immunity to and cancel out other magicks. (its even more fail cause in the same scene Larsa cancels out Vayne's magick with his own nethicite. that's one huge glaring design flaw for nethicite XD)

Yeah, I suppose that's Mist. Gabranth enhanced, at least, that attack with Mist. I wouldn't say that's vague, Squall's capabilities either. Now what does this shows? This shows Gabranth enhaced an attack with Mist, it doesn't shows he's super-human. He's like the characters Quickenings, they uses the Mist but that doesn't mean they are super-humans whatsoever.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Why are you still on this? As I said. There was no point. In any way at all. It was just a simple statement. I didn't say nor imply that Gabranth was stronger than anyone with that. Its like me saying Squall has a gunblade. The previous sentence does not say anything about Squall skills with a gunblade are greater than anyone else or worse. Just says he has one. Same with this. You could have just ignored that is what I mean

I'm just pointing out some things, that's all, also replying to your post... I guess? 😕 Anyway. What Squall's Gunblade have to do in this point? I don't quite understand.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Fair enough. I still say its pretty vague. Vague means something not clearly grasped or understood. You can still know it exists(as I know Squall gf gives him power). I say its vague, cause as with Gabranth mist, it is not cleary understood how powerful does it make him

So, the GFs enhancements are something not clearly grasped nor understood...? Why? It's pretty clear, actually. I know that everything exists because it's stated. The difference here is that Mist does not make the characters super-humans, Manufacted Nethicite does. We don't know how powerful they become with the use of Nethicite, that's the point. Also you agree with me here, finally, GFs makes them super-humans (obviously) we can't quantify the strength though, but as far as they makes them super-humans, that is what concerns here due that is fact anyway. Thank you.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Don't you get more power after you beat the first guy(who is also the easist?). either way I get your point, but I always chalked it as Squall and co pure weapon skills the first few battles

What guy? You mean the first of those minions you fight? Easier? Probably in the Gameplay, I don't think that monster is just a push-over at all since it's one of those powerful minions that are under Ultimecia's total control, you know. The point here is, that they fought them without any type of enhancements, still they beat them all. GFs makes them stronger, powerful, without them they remain powerful. Plus, Ultimecia/Griever can automatically destroy your GFs and Magical spells, so I suppose the characters were losing powers also in the final battle. Still they won. Imagine with GFs fully equipped how strong they are or can become, they can become infinitely stronger without any type of limits. The stronger the GF, the stronger the user. Glad you got my point though.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I don't exactly remember how materia works in FFVII(been forever since I played) but I guess it works similarly. except you don't always need magicite to use magic

Materia is crystallized Mako. It draws the planet's energy (Lifestream) in order to control/manipulate Magical powers. It's similar.

Yeah, I suppose that's Mist. Gabranth enhanced, at least, that attack with Mist. I wouldn't say that's vague, Squall's capabilities either. Now what does this shows? This shows Gabranth enhaced an attack with Mist, it doesn't shows he's super-human. He's like the characters Quickenings, they uses the Mist but that doesn't mean they are super-humans whatsoever.

I know it doesn't show if he is super human, by his world standards of course. Any living thing in Ivalice can use mist if it has knowledge of it. I was arguing if Gabranth use of mist/magick could go against Squall use of gf powering.

I'm just pointing out some things, that's all, also replying to your post... I guess? 😕 Anyway. What Squall's Gunblade have to do in this point? I don't quite understand.

The Squall thing was just an example to show there was no context to anything I said about Gabranth as a boss. Nothing important.

So, the GFs enhancements are something not clearly grasped nor understood...? Why? It's pretty clear, actually. I know that everything exists because it's stated. The difference here is that Mist does not make the characters super-humans, Manufacted Nethicite does. We don't know how powerful they become with the use of Nethicite, that's the point. Also you agree with me here, finally, GFs makes them super-humans (obviously) we can't quantify the strength though, but as far as they makes them super-humans, that is what concerns here due that is fact anyway. Thank you.

The fact is still we don't know what kinda strength lies within the power. We know Gf make you strong. But How strong? Can Squall lift boulders, or does it give him a slight strength boast to swing a sword easier? Its not clearly understood what kind power you get with a gf hence the word vague. Having it stated in game that it gives you power does not make it not vague. it makes its purpose not vague, as its obvious its purpose is to give the user power, but the power it self is still vague.

a hypothical situation. If Gabranth were in an area with dense mist and did his little sword thingy. And Squall had some gf junctioned, and they clashed together. Who would over power who? Its vague. Why? Because we don't know how much more power mist has in a dense area and we don't know how much power a gf gives you. Only know that it gives you power. Now do you see why I say its vague for both sides?

What guy? You mean the first of those minions you fight? Easier? Probably in the Gameplay, I don't think that monster is just a push-over at all since it's one of those powerful minions that are under Ultimecia's total control, you know. The point here is, that they fought them without any type of enhancements, still they beat them all. GFs makes them stronger, powerful, without them they remain powerful. Plus, Ultimecia/Griever can automatically destroy your GFs and Magical spells, so I suppose the characters were losing powers also in the final battle. Still they won. Imagine with GFs fully equipped how strong they are or can become, they can become infinitely stronger without any type of limits. The stronger the GF, the stronger the user. Glad you got my point though.

Who cares if he was ultimecia minion. Seifer was her knight and he wasn't much of a challenge to the party. And I remember that after each fight you can unseal a power. so they were only completely powerless to like the first beast and gaining power after each boss. And Ultimecia taking powers away was a gameplay thing wasn't it? Its not like Vayne novus/nethicite magick canceling and absorbing where it actually happens in the story and is stated to do so. Unless it is said somewhere she can do that than I'll take that back

Materia is crystallized Mako. It draws the planet's energy (Lifestream) in order to control/manipulate Magical powers. It's similar.

Thanks for explaining. I should play FFVII again. But I don't like it like how I liked VIII and V

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I know it doesn't show if he is super human, by his world standards of course. Any living thing in Ivalice can use mist if it has knowledge of it. I was arguing if Gabranth use of mist/magick could go against Squall use of gf powering.

It shows he isn't super-human at all, actually. Where Gabranth does use Magic? We know he can? Yes, we know he does? No. Unless you show me he does. You can't say he does, you know. No, Gabranth charging his sword with Mist does not make him stronger than a super-human. I guess some of the Gunblade's trigger power, should be enough to handle Gabranth's swords with Mist. Although, we don't know how often Gabranth does that. On the other hand, we can easily assume Squall can pull the trigger multiple times as he doesn't need to charge any type of energy, unless he performs Renzokuken (something that I REALLY doubt Gabranth could handle). Plus, he's super-human.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
The fact is still we don't know what kinda strength lies within the power. We know Gf make you strong. But How strong. Can Squall lift boulders, or does it give him a slight strength boast to swing a sword easier? Its not clearly understood what kind power you get with a gf hence the word vague. Having it stated in game that it gives you power does not make it not vague. it makes its purpose not vague, as its obvious its purpose is to give the user power, but the power it self is still vague.

a hypothical situation. If Gabranth were in an area with dense mist and did his little sword thingy. And Squall had some gf junctioned, and they clashed together. Who would over power who? Its vague. Why? Because we don't know how much more power mist has in a dense area and we don't know how much power a gf gives you. Only know that it gives you power. Now do you see why I say its vague for both sides?

The fact is that we don't know what kinda of: strengths/abilities/Magics and how much they can receive with any of those enhancements, nothing of that is explained specifically. But it doesn't means they gives them no power, or that the power becomes 'vague', it affects the users properly as any enhancements, this is reinforced after being stated in the script that they does provide above-humans capabilities. I have already explained why we can't quantify any of that and I'm not talking about GFs here, I am talking about every enhancements the Final Fantasy characters receives. You ask how strong, that's an easy answer: Above-humans capabilities, thus super-human. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

With that example or analogy, you are literally denying facts here, plus, you are introducing Squall in Gabranth's world, otuside his world Gabranth can't use anything, on the other hand, Squall can still have their GFs equipped. You are saying that GFs just gives them power, that is vagues and end of story, which we know that they provides them with multiple abilities, powers and that they do enhances their bodies functions, they do receive above-human capabilities, you shouldn't be questioning this whatsoever. Mist does not makes them super-human, Manufacted Nethicite does, Gabranth never used one of those, thus Gabranth has power but not above-humans, thus Gabranth isn't super-human. If we follow that logic then Vaan and all the Final Fantasy XII characters (since they does use Mist to perform attacks such as the Quickenings) are super-humans. We perfectly know that's not true. We can say Vayne IS super-human, Vayne Novus, of course.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I remember that after each fight you can unseal a power. so they were only completely powerless to like the first beast.

The main point here, is that they aren't powerless at all, it seems you're missing the point. So you suggest that after defeating the first monster they automatically recovered all of their powers? So that was the only monster in the whole castle? Because if we follow that all of the other bosses/minions are non-existent? What do you have to back this up?

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
And Ultimecia taking powers away was a gameplay thing wasn't it? Its not like Vayne novus/nethicite magick canceling and absorbing where it actually happens in the story and is stated to do so. Unless it is said somewhere she can do that

You're suggesting that the whole castle thing is Gameplay? Ultimecia sealing their power si Gameplay? All the bosses she controls are Gameplay? You would need a good reason to back this up.

Also, wasn't Gameplay when you go through the Licence Board to purchase your Quickenings? I suppose that doesn't make them non-existent? Ultimecia's castle is part of the plot, her, sealing their powers is part of the plot AND powers. We couldn't say the same about those Quickenings you purchase, right? I could argue and use the same argument you're using here and with many other stuff, of course.

this will be my last post on this subject, cause I don't really like Gabranth enough to continue writing big posts about him. That and you seem to be really biased and it looks like you are purposely misquoting things I say to make a cheap point(or you really aren't paying attention and if that's the case than I'm sorry for sounding rude). But I wanted to point some things out

It shows he isn't super-human at all, actually. Where Gabranth does use Magic? We know he can? Yes, we know he does? No. Unless you show me he does.

For starters. I never said in any of my posts gabranth was super human. I said he has use of a power that we don't know how it would equal to Squall's. We know Gabranth can do magick. Cause the mist thing he does with his sword is a form of magick. That's what mist is. When a person uses the mist or harness it in an airship of other tech its magick. The mist just floating around in areas like raithwall tomb is just mist(that can be used for magick). You can't say its not magick when that's exactly what it is. Look up mist yourself or play FFXII cause you don't seem to understand

You can't say he does, you know. No, Gabranth charging his sword with Mist does not make him stronger than a super-human. I guess some of the Gunblade's trigger power, should be enough to handle Gabranth's swords with Mist.

We don't know how powerful Squall's gunblade power is as well. How can you assume its enough to take out Gabranth mist/magick when you don't know the power of any? Again you sound biased

Although, we don't know how often Gabranth does that.

In game info says you can use magick as long as you either have a stone(magicite), or there is mist around. And mist is all around in FFXII. And we don't how often can Squall use his trigger. In the intro thing(where you don't press anythhing on the starting screen) we see Squall's gunblade in a case with bullet shells. We don't know if Squall has to uses these shells or not to make his trigger useful

Plus, he's super-human.

With a vague power

The fact is that we don't know what kinda of: strengths/abilities/Magics and how much they can receive with any of those enhancements, nothing of that is explained specifically. But it doesn't means they gives them no power, or that the power becomes 'vague', it affects the users properly as any enhancements, this is reinforced after being stated in the script that they does provide above-humans capabilities. I have already explained why we can't quantify any of that and I'm not talking about GFs here, I am talking about every enhancements the Final Fantasy characters receives. You ask how strong, that's an easy answer: Above-humans capabilities, thus super-human. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

This post is the reason why I'm leaving this topic. You can't even except that its vague(or you don't know what vague means). We know Squall has power. Duh. We have nothing to gauge his power by. We don't know as I said if it gives him the power to lift heavy things or a slight power boost cause it never shows it or never says what capabilities(especially considering he could barely open the valve in balamb without help and edea ice attack through the chest easily took him out, unless he didn't have gf's there). Having it said you can have above human capabilities does not change the fact that its vague. Go look up what the word vague means cause you seriously do not know

If Squall had an enhancements that either showed he can(FOR EXAMPLE) punch through a boulder or it was said he can he can punch through a boulder with said enhancements it would be less vague. We would have a lot to gauge it by whether we seen it or we read it. Quistis(I believe it was quistis was the first to say this) saying "GF gives us strength". Is vague. Gabranth magick is stronger with a denser mist and he can power his sword with it, Squall has gf that make him strong. We can't tell which has the edge here cause neither power is fully understood. More mist= more power doesn't show what destruction its capable of doing(except for mist storms) and gf give you strength doesn't either. Its Vague

Its like me saying I have six dollars and I ask you how much do you have and you say that you have more than me. That's VAGUE. It doesn't say how much more, if by a lot or a little. I'm gonna stop explaining what vague means cause I have a feeling it is not getting through to you

With that example or analogy, you are literally denying facts here, plus, you are introducing Squall in Gabranth's world, otuside his world Gabranth can't use anything, on the other hand, Squall can still have their GFs equipped.

Don't these vs topics usually take place in an equal plane? Where both thier respective powers work? I dunno its usually like that for every vs topic I been in. Also how would we know Squall gfs would work where ever they would fight? You also sound biased again. You take away Gabranth use of outsourcing power yet you give Squall an outsource power? A gf power isn't his so why give it to him? Gabranth doesn't have the power on his on and needs mist or magicite, but Squall doesn't have these enhancements on his own yet you give him GFs? something that's only in his world.

You just complained that what I said is introducing Squall to Gabranth worlds than you immeditley give Squall something that only exists in his world. How is that not biased?

The main point here, is that they aren't powerless at all, it seems you're missing the point. So you suggest that after defeating the first monster they automatically recovered all of their powers?

Be honest. Did you even read the post all the way through? Seriously. Heres how the full thing was said: "so they were only completely powerless to like the first beast and gaining power after each boss. "

NO I didn't say they gained all thier power after the first fight cause I specifically said they were gaining there power back after each boss fight in there. Hell even in the part you did quote I didn't hint at them getting all their powers back after the first fight. I said "I remember that after each fight you can unseal A power". Not All. "A", a single power from each boss. Where the hell did you get that from?

So that was the only monster in the whole castle? Because if we follow that all of the other bosses/minions are non-existent? What do you have to back this up?

I didn't even say there was only one monster or suggest it or even slightly hint at it. Your reading skills are either really off, or you were sleepy when you typed this out. Sorry but it looks like your doing this on purpose. This is now the third time you took something I said and completely flipped it into something I didn't even hint at(the first being where you assumed I said para magic was just weak cause I said a soceress magic could be better)

You're suggesting that the whole castle thing is Gameplay?

No, that's not what I said(or what I was even responding to) I was responding to when you said Ultimecia/griever taking their powers and the party losing power as they were fighting them. I wasn't "suggesting" anything. I was ASKING you if she really could destroy gf and magic in mid fight as you suggested she could as part of the story. I only remember the sealing part being in the story before her fight. Which, honestly I don't even understand how defeating other beast gets their power back from a spell she casted. I guess shes just cool like that XD

Anyways I'm done. I'll just say its undecided for me. You can claim Squall wins if you want

MY EYES! Really does it take this much to prove a point? Me thins Squall did more than Gabranth because XII characters just ignore each other for the most part. However his Darth Vader like armor and past make his at the very least as cool as Squall.

FF Darth Vader vs FF Batman...that what this thread should be named.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
this will be my last post on this subject, cause I don't really like Gabranth enough to continue writing big posts about him.

Okay. It doesn't matter whom you like more here though, you know? It matters to decide logically who would win despite if you like this character or not, if you don't want to debate against a character you like, then do not debate.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
That and you seem to be really biased and it looks like you are purposely misquoting things I say to make a cheap point(or you really aren't paying attention and if that's the case than I'm sorry for sounding rude). But I wanted to point some things out

If you think so...
Biased. Why? All I'm doing is replying to your posts, without ignoring anything you said and without being stubborn about anything. I am pointing things out even if isn't a direct reply to your quote, I'm pointing things out, that is all. I don't need to 'misquote' anything, why should I need to do that...? For what? What do you mean by 'cheap' point? It looks like you're kind of attacking me here. Well, whatever if that's what you think.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I never said in any of my posts gabranth was super human. I said he has use of a power that we don't know how it would equal to Squall's.

I never said you said Gabranth was super-human. But you are comparing him with someone that IS super-human. The use of that power (if is Mist what you mean) don't make him on par with a super-human. Why? Because he uses (apparently) small portions of that Mist just for his WEAPONS, it speaks about his weapons, not about him, plus, he even used it ONCE at the final of the whole game. Mist doesn't make the Final Fantasy XII characters super-humans, at all. So why bother and persist in asking: 'how it would equal to Squall's GFs enhancements'? when you know it can't be equal? This is getting old, I think we have been over here already.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We know Gabranth can do magick. Cause the mist thing he does with his sword is a form of magick. That's what mist is.

No, we don't. We know Mist is the source of Magic in Ivalice, but we don't know if Gabranth can use that Mist to cast Magical spells. We simply don't know and you can't prove he did. I never said that the thing he does with his sword wasn't a form of Magic. You are misunderstanding things here and I already know what Mist is by the way.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
When a person uses the mist or harness it in an airship of other tech its magick.

But I don't care what a person or airship can do with Mist, I care about what Gabranth did/can do with that Mist! You can't say that because Mist exists and any person can use it, Gabranth can use Magic when you don't have evidence that Gabranth uses/used Magical spells in the story, all you have is the weapon thing he does which I already know Mist is involved in it.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
The mist just floating around in areas like raithwall tomb is just mist(that can be used for magick).

I never said it wasn't Mist and that it can't be used for Magic.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
You can't say its not magick when that's exactly what it is. Look up mist yourself or play FFXII cause you don't seem to understand

I NEVER SAID THAT! Hello?
I don't need to play Final Fantasy XII because I've already did, and I understand perfectly, thanks for your concern.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We don't know how powerful Squall's gunblade power is as well. How can you assume its enough to take out Gabranth mist/magick when you don't know the power of any? Again you sound biased

Did I said Squall can TAKE OUT Gabranth's swords with his Gunblade? I said he could handle it with the trigger power which gives more power to its attacks, that is even stated. I said that I don't see Gabranth handling Renzokuken very well AND his super-human powers, Limit Breaks are directly related to Magic, GFs and Junction, I don't think Gabranth can handle all of that. It sounds illogical to you or something? Just asking. Because Gabranth hasn't the edge here, you know, he isn't super-human. Oh joy, I sound so 'biased' because someone is saying it. It seems the one that can't accept facts here is you, my friend.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
In game info says you can use magick as long as you either have a stone(magicite), or there is mist around. And mist is all around in FFXII.

And what does this shows to you? How can you help Gabranth with this? Can you tell me? Because you aren't saying anything relevant and new to me, you know. It's just more stuff about Mist, but we already know that everyone can use Mist as eveyrone can use Materia in Final Fantasy VII and those things don't make you super-human by the way.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
And we don't how often can Squall use his trigger. In the intro thing(where you don't press anythhing on the starting screen) we see Squall's gunblade in a case with bullet shells. We don't know if Squall has to uses these shells or not to make his trigger useful

More often than Gabranth uses Mist, I suppose? That's a simple trigger, he can pull it in battle, he fights with it because it's part of what is his entire weapon. It's not some energy that we don't know what limitations could have. What the intro has to do with anything? Is stated in the Ultimania by the way, so by saying this you're literally ignoring what Gunblade can do and its functions as I can see. Too bad for you.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
With a vague power

With above-human powers.
Super-human > Normal human.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
You can't even except that its vague(or you don't know what vague means).

No, mate. You are the problem here. You don't accept that Squall have above-human powers, or you don't know what a super-human is or means. It seems you persist to prove that something that completely enhances your abilities and makes you superior is vague.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We have nothing to gauge his power by.

Training. GFs, Para-Magic, Junctions, Limit Breaks.

"A GF is an independent energy force. By combining it with para-magic, it is possible to control tremendous energy. Memory loss is a possible side effect, but this has not been proven as of yet"

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We don't know as I said if it gives him the power to lift heavy things

1. Super-human does not consist in only physical strength.
2. Why Squall would need to lift heavy things if he does fights with a blade?
3. We don't know if Jenova/Mako enhancements makes the members of SOLDIER to lift heavy things either, we do know they are super-humans though.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
edea ice attack through the chest easily took him out

1. Squall fought not only two monsters before reaching Edea, he fought and defeated Seifer by himself, then fought Edea. It's not like Squall didn't even fought anyone then went K.O. by that attack.
2. I would like to see Vaan, Basch or Gabranth enduring a fight with her. Wait... That would be an instant kill, they can't use anything outside their world, can they...? Plus... They aren't even super-humans even with the Mist power.
3. Edea/Ultimecia is not a normal human either. Sorceresses aren't normal humans. She could have killed them all if she would have wanted. Hell, Edea owned Rinoa before the parade and she didn't even moved. She killed the president by lifting him and burning him like a bug with a hand.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Go look up what the word vague means cause you seriously do not know

Go look up what the words above-human super-human means, but I'm sure you do know what it means though, the thing is, that you are denying facts here.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
If Squall had an enhancements that either showed he can (FOR EXAMPLE) punch through a boulder or it was said he can he can punch through a boulder with said enhancements it would be less vague.

So you are saying that Squall and any of the SeeDs have enhancements, until they shows to you that they can lift giant rocks or break the ground with their fists or something?

Instead of that he can easily demolish/enslave GFs and giant monsters with a sword.
Either way read above. Nothing is vague when you do know they have above-humans capabilities. Hell, they even take Ifrit as a TEST! Lmao. 😄 It's vague, however, assume that something can reach/surpass super-human powers without evidence whatsoever. Why? Because it makes the proposition a vague one with out any basis. IE Just because Gabranth charges his swwrd with Magic does not makes him super-human. Which by the way is ALL you have for him. That is your whole argument.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17 Gabranth magick is stronger with a denser mist and he can power his sword with it, Squall has gf that make him strong.

Gabranth does not use Magic, Gabranth puts a bit of Mist on his weapon.
Squall uses Magic.
Outside his world Gabranth can't do anything with Mist.
Mist make his sword strong. GFs makes humans super-humans.

GFs enhancements > Mist.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We can't tell which has the edge here

Probably because you don't want to see it.

Mist does not makes you super-human, you have absolutely anything to back that up. If Mist makes you super-human, then all the Final Fantasy XII characters are super-human, we know that's not true. You are a persistent one, don't you?
Gabranth does not have any type of advantages here.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
More mist= more power doesn't show what destruction its capable of doing(except for mist storms) and gf give you strength doesn't either.

Don't make me laugh. Bergan, who was actually a super-human was completely destroyed because he couldn't control the Nethicite's power and Venat was there.

Also... All of what you put here is completely irrelevant in a fight between Squall and Gabranth. Mist storm? What the hell is that supposed to do in this fight? It's like saying: Sure! Squall has tons, and can have armies of GFs to enhance his abilities even more and to fight along with him. Irrelevant and it doesn't follows. The fact here is that Gabranth uses Mist to its weapon, no more, no less.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Its like me saying I have six dollars and I ask you how much do you have and you say that you have more than me.

Wrong. The analogy is if we have two cars and one of them has enhancements. I will bet my money on the enhanced one. Super-human > Normal human. You are having difficulties in understanding what higher level of powers are. Seriously...

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Don't these vs topics usually take place in an equal plane? Where both thier respective powers work? I dunno its usually like that for every vs topic I been in. Also how would we know Squall gfs would work where ever they would fight? You also sound biased again. You take away Gabranth use of outsourcing power yet you give Squall an outsource power? A gf power isn't his so why give it to him? Gabranth doesn't have the power on his on and needs mist or magicite, but Squall doesn't have these enhancements on his own yet you give him GFs? something that's only in his world.

Isn't Mist the source of all Magic in all the whole Ivalice? How that would work in another universe/world where Mist doesn't exist? Explain. Why Squall wouldn't use GFs in another world? As far as I know GFs aren't the source of all the planet in Final Fantay VIII and they are Junctioned to the users, it depends on the user, not on the planet nor any source. Hell, they even could travel through Time to a place that no one can exist except Ultimecia, still their GFs weren't destroyed nor disappeared. And you are being ridiculous. You name me examples like: 'Mist storms' or: 'if there were dense Mist' and imaginary crap to make Gabranth look better and disregard everything supporting Squall. So Gabranth can create Mist storms to enhance his abilities? He can create dense Mist on himself? NO. RIGHT? So we can bring whatever we like to a fight? So we aren't using logic here or what is stated for each character? Stop being ridiculous.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
You just complained that what I said is introducing Squall to Gabranth worlds than you immeditley give Squall something that only exists in his world. How is that not biased?

I did not introduced Gabranth in Squall's world though. So stop accusing me and complaining. If Gabranth fights outside his world (in whatever world you like) he wouldn't have access to Mist. RIGHT? You was missing the point again and now accusing me. I did not give Squall any handicaps, if he can use his powers outside his world and Gabranth can't, I am not to blame. You did with Gabranth. The one that sounds biased here is you, sir. I didn't said Gabranth can't use Mist on his sword in this fight anyway, so.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
NO I didn't say they gained all thier power after the first fight cause I specifically said they were gaining there power back after each boss fight in there. Hell even in the part you did quote I didn't hint at them getting all their powers back after the first fight. I said "I remember that after each fight you can unseal A power". Not All. "A", a single power from each boss. Where the hell did you get that from?

I asked that intentionally. To see your entire explanation. Glad you did. Now yes. Then, you accept the seal of his powers as part of the plot. Yes they do recover part of their powers, I didn't said the don't. They can't choose what powers though. They split in two groups. It can be their Limit Breaks, their Para-Magic or GFs, I dunno. The facts here is, that those are the most powerful monsters/bosses in the whole game and that the castle is full of them, besides that in the castle you have encounters with monsters all the time besides the bosses. So. My point still remains, they managed to defeat them all with half of his powers/enhancements and to reach Ultimecia. They can do battle without GFs and they are still powerful, because they remain powerful.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I was responding to when you said Ultimecia/griever taking their powers and the party losing power as they were fighting them. I wasn't "suggesting" anything. I was ASKING you if she really could destroy gf and magic in mid fight as you suggested she could as part of the story.

Why not? That's one of her powers. I mean hers and Griever's powers to destroy GFs. The only ones who does that are them. I didn't suggested anything, that's what happens and their abilities. That sounds weird or illogical to you? She was compressing the whole Universe and that's just one of her spells.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Anyways I'm done. I'll just say its undecided for me. You can claim Squall wins if you want

The facts here are (and these werw one of your main points for Gabranth):

Gabranth isn't super-human, because there's nothing to suggest he is, same goes to the Final Fantasy XII characters, unlike Vayne, Bergan or Dr. Cid if I am not mistaken. He isn't the strongest Judge, nothing says he is, anything suggest he is. He has climb ranks in the empire, the same we can say about the other Judges who are in the same level as he is, if not more. He charges his sword with Mist, that shows he performs attacks with Mist, it speaks about his weapon, not about him, also, other Judges can do it, also Basch (who I personally think is stronger than Gabranth, but isn't super-human either).

On the other hand, Squall is super-human, because there's something that suggest he is. He even have multiple abilities that the same enhancements provides to him. He's the strongest SeeD because there are a lot of things that suggest he is and I can name them all. He increases his Gunblade's attacks by pressing the trigger and with Renzokuken he enhances even more his attacks, all of this is also related to the GFs and Junction that can gives more power to those attacks. Renzokuken is a powerful attack that I really doubt Gabranth could handle. Hell, Squall have even the ability to Summon those creatures.

Squall (with just these few facts) takes it and puts him above Gabranth. Simple as that. Gabranth does NOT have any type of advantages against Squall. He simply does not.
Unless you name some, which I don't think so. At the moment your arguments have been refuted and I don't see what does Gabranth have that puts him above Squall like you think he does, I don't really know what makes you think Gabranth would win. Gabranth hasn't done anything that could put him above Squall. Not even in the plot. Plus: Super-human > Normal human. 'Nuff said.

I'm already done with this topic and am not arguing in any ones favor any more. I just wanna say this

But I don't care what a person or airship can do with Mist, I care about what Gabranth did/can do with that Mist! You can't say that because Mist exists and any person can use it, Gabranth can use Magic when you don't have evidence that Gabranth uses/used Magical spells in the story, all you have is the weapon thing he does which I already know Mist is involved in it.

It looks like you also took this post the wrong way. I was saying where Gabranth uses his mist sword thing is considered magick. Cause when a person harness the mist its considered magick. I said this cause in your post I quoted in my previous quote you said:

"Where Gabranth does use Magic? We know he can? Yes, we know he does? No"

I was pointing out that the mist sword thing IS considered magick. Which in your other point you seem to already understand that, so no problem here. I was speaking of no other magick but the sword power thing. Just saying this cause it seems like you thought I was just giving more power to a character that he didn't use.

It looks like you're kind of attacking me here. Well, whatever if that's what you think

Hey there I said ahead of time sorry if I sound rude. Nothing against you personally. I don't attack guys in debates. Just not my style

More often than Gabranth uses Mist, I suppose? That's a simple trigger, he can pull it in battle, he fights with it because it's part of what is his entire weapon. It's not some energy that we don't know what limitations could have. What the intro has to do with anything? Is stated in the Ultimania by the way, so by saying this you're literally ignoring what Gunblade can do and its functions as I can see. Too bad for you.

The intro thing I said had to do with Squall having to use bullets when he uses trigger. I was saying how often can Squall use trigger if bullets are involved. And what are you saying is stated in the ultimania?Seriously I have no idea what you're implying with that? Not sure if your talking about the bullet thing or something else. You just said that and lead me no where with it. I'm a little confused. Anyway I only seen this quote from the ultimania about gunblades and no other

"Combining the sword with a standard shotgun’s mechanisms, the Gunblade is a unique weapon. If you pull the trigger while the bullet is “set,” a strong wave of power will travel down to the edge of the blade, raising the attack power of the Gunblade. By pulling the trigger at the right time, one can release a powerful attack; however, achieving competency in usage of the Gunblade is very difficult and therefore requires a high degree of aptitude."

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/ultimania-translations-final-fantasy-vii/5685/the-new-seed-grows-further-more-translations-from-the-final-fantasy-viii-ultimania-keyword-section/

*bolded the bullet part in case you were talking about the bullets and not something else because I was confused by what you said*

If you meant something else, than plz rephrase

Go look up what the words above-human super-human means, but I'm sure you do know what it means though, the thing is, that you are denying facts here.

Haha and you said I sounded like I was attacking you lol jk. Yes I know what it means. As the title implies its above human(though honestly I don't remember anybody saying above human in FFVIII. Just that quistis and some one else saying gf give you strength and control of good energy/magic. I guess its still sort of implied though. At least you and I seem to think. A FFVIII hater wouldn't agree)

above human still doesn't change there is some vagueness to it. You seem to have been taking that as if its a bad thing or if I were saying Squall has a disadvantage casue its vague. which is the reason why I started thinking you were biased.

Saying above human does not say clearly about your strength. Whether your light years away from what a normal human can do or just slightly more powerful. That's what vague about it. Its not like super man. Where we know he's super and can easily tell by how much by the things he does and how he always shows off his power. which is why I found it hard to see Squall with a clear advantage. Squall getting a power boost and Gabranth using magick/mist to power his sword. IMO I have no idea what would over power in a sword fight. Let alone we don't see much of thier sword skills aside from Gabranth easily knocking down reddas and Squall vs Seifer. We just know both are really good at what they do

And also in case all this time you thought I was just some Gabranth nut. Hell no. Cool armor and dissidia aside, the guy is so not so cool. Vayne and Cid are way better characters imo. He was basically the bad guys personal b**** and had the second worst boss fight in the game(vossler easily being the first). I only thought he'd win in the first post, and than put more thought into it and thought of it as a draw instead because mist power is only shown through those little mist storms

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
It looks like you also took this post the wrong way. I was saying where Gabranth uses his mist sword thing is considered magick. Cause when a person harness the mist its considered magick. I said this cause in your post I quoted in my previous quote you said:

"Where Gabranth does use Magic? We know he can? Yes, we know he does? No"

I was pointing out that the mist sword thing IS considered magick. Which in your other point you seem to already understand that, so no problem here. I was speaking of no other magick but the sword power thing. Just saying this cause it seems like you thought I was just giving more power to a character that he didn't use.

What a coincidence, I always took your posts the 'wrong way'... Yeah sure. laughing

Exactly, then I never took your post the wrong way, YOU took mine.
Gabranth uses his sword with Mist on it. That is all you have for him. If is 'considered' Magic or not, it doesn't matter in this fight as you are admitting he does not use anything besides that thing. Plus, that speaks solely and exclusive about his WEAPON.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Hey there I said ahead of time sorry if I sound rude. Nothing against you personally. I don't attack guys in debates. Just not my style

Lol. Sure, dude. 😆 YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!! (sorry if I sounded rude) 🙁 . Whatever, I don't really care what you think of me anyway. So don't worry about it.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
The intro thing I said had to do with Squall having to use bullets when he uses trigger. I was saying how often can Squall use trigger if bullets are involved. And what are you saying is stated in the ultimania?Seriously I have no idea what you're implying with that? Not sure if your talking about the bullet thing or something else. You just said that and lead me no where with it. I'm a little confused. Anyway I only seen this quote from the ultimania about gunblades and no other

"Combining the sword with a standard shotgun’s mechanisms, the Gunblade is a unique weapon. If you pull the trigger while the bullet is “set,” a strong wave of power will travel down to the edge of the blade, raising the attack power of the Gunblade. By pulling the trigger at the right time, one can release a powerful attack; however, achieving competency in usage of the Gunblade is very difficult and therefore requires a high degree of aptitude."

Lmao? Are you joking? You are putting the Ultimania quote for me, so I was right, it is stated in the Ultimania, I don't know what you got from my words though, it seems the one that misquotes things is you. I said the trigger is part of its functions, that's stated. I said it reaises its attack power, that's stated. I said that's one of the functions of Gunblade, that's stated, so? What you want to know?

This quote is completely agreeing with me. What's your problem here? Those aren't really bullets by the way. It wouldn't make sense if those were bullets, because it can't shoot. Those are like blank catridges, the Gunblade does not fire projectiles.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Haha and you said I sounded like I was attacking you lol jk. Yes I know what it means. As the title implies its above human(though honestly I don't remember anybody saying above human in FFVIII. Just that quistis and some one else saying gf give you strength and control of good energy/magic. I guess its still sort of implied though. At least you and I seem to think. A FFVIII hater wouldn't agree)

And that's exactly what you were doing, lol. 😛 But as I said I don't care. You seem to have ignored all of my examples and you are INDEED disregarding information. (As you did with Gunblade). Anyway. You don't remember anybody saying above human? What do you mean by that? Are you saying that GFs enhancements does not makes you super-human and provides you with above-human capabilities? (I am asking). I AM ASKING, I AM ASKING. (Cuz, now you'll say I am 'misquoting' what you said, for sure). 😂

This is what Quistis says:

'GF gives us strength. The stronger the GF, the stronger we become'

But hey, you wouldn't think I am basing my argument in that quote, right? Lol. Although, that reinforces what I was saying. Or you thought that worked in your favor? 🙂

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
above human still doesn't change there is some vagueness to it. You seem to have been taking that as if its a bad thing or if I were saying Squall has a disadvantage casue its vague. which is the reason why I started thinking you were biased.

That's because you don't see Squall punching a giant monster sending it to fly. That does not mean he's not super-human when all the evidence in the plot points out that he is and clearly suggest he is. Nope, that's you thinking that of me, lol. You think I am biased? Lmao, says the one that said that Gabranth COULD have a Mist storm to increase his strength? Lol. What should I think of you?

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Saying above human does not say clearly about your strength. Whether your light years away from what a normal human can do or just slightly more powerful. That's what vague about it. Its not like super man. Where we know he's super and can easily tell by how much by the things he does and how he always shows off his power. which is why I found it hard to see Squall with a clear advantage.

But Squall IS super-human under Final Fantasy standards. Physical strength isn't the only factor that is required to be super-human. You are desperately trying to explain what vague means when I never said I didn't know what it meant and I do know what you mean by the way, do not effort yourself. Superman is from another universe and he has nothing to do in Final Fantasy. He 'shows' his powers because isn't an RPG game, it's motion live as well as Batman, but Batman isn't super-human. Lmao, you don't see Squall with advantages because you don't want to see it, you surely see Gabranth having advantages over Squall, lol. 'Gabranth wins'.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Squall getting a power boost and Gabranth using magick/mist to power his sword. IMO I have no idea what would over power in a sword fight.

IMO You're funny and you keep repeating the same over and over. Concede, you're not making yourself any favors at this rate, mate. That speaks ONLY and SOLELY about Gabranth's SWORD. GFS ENHANCEMENTS MAKES YOU SUPER-HUMAN!
Squall beats Gabranth. Gabranth does NOT have any type of advantages here, simple as that.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I only thought he'd win in the first post, and than put more thought into it and thought of it as a draw instead because mist power is only shown through those little mist storms

Mist does not makes you super-human, if it does, then all the Final Fantasy XII characters are super-human which NOPE. They aren't.
Think whatever you like if you want to think it's a 'draw' think it, all puts Squall above Gabranth here, sorry.

P.S. I thought the last one of your post was about to be the last one?
🙄

Fran is superhuman unless that's what the Berserk spell is supposed to do.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Fran is superhuman unless that's what the Berserk spell is supposed to do.

She isn't.

The 'Berserk' status is purely Gameplay.

She's really weak to Mist and loses control of herself. Venat could have take control of her as he/she did with her sister.

The beserker fit that Fran threw kind of questions whether or not she's superhuman. Well she isn't technically a human at all so I gues its right.

Gabranth is also a relentless attacker in a sense so that could put Squall in a hot situation.