Leo's Tourney--Match 2--Pool B--Digi vs Gundam

BF--rainforest western canada

judges forthcoming

8 posts per

judges forthcoming

________________________________

psycho gundam wrote on Apr 6th, 2010 01:16 PM:
not sure what digi is going to do provided he's still kinda confident in himself, but i guess time will tell.

Meh, here's my prep. really can't change too much and the battle OP is practically the same as against blair verbatim, if digi fields the crescent plane though, things get more interesting.

"Just having fun here peeps 😄

-10 seconds of prep-

Dr. Harrow gives the amalgamation of Punisher and Pip his antidote pill* for the drainer**. Harrow then activates the drainer "briefcase" and places it in Pip the Punisher's (name = win) backpack***. ~Quick addition ~ Since Harrow will be touching Pip the Punisher's person while sliding the briefcase in the backpack, he'll be able to port along with him uninhibited as P the P ports over to pick up his modified long range sniper and ice gun from the Battle van close by.

(* http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/1724/na50020.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/3359/na50021.jpg

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6546/na50022.jpg ( starks was rendered busted to hell))

(** http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4001/newavengers055mrshepher.jpg

http://www.picamatic.com/view/5539093_New_Avengers_055_%28Mr.Shepherd-Megan%29_pg13-14/ )

(*** http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8753/punishervssentry3.jpg

http://img693.imageshack.us/i/punpupkinbomb.jpg/

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5793/pundamageshot1.jpg )

-10 seconds of prep completes-

Now the amalgamation of Pip and the Punisher gives the Punisher the ability to teleport thanks to Pip's years of absorbing the radiation from the space gem he once held. Pip's resurrection made him class 10, the amalgam's musculature is thus enhanced.

The punisher's usual tech is mostly a pair of pistols and bombs as well as knives and ammo. His main weapon is a long-range assault rifle with a grenade launcher on the rifle's hard point, normal long range scope, and ammo for this weapon on his chest emblem on average, he has been known to carry a lot more.

But... the Punisher's usual means of transport "Battle van" is also
in play. He keeps several of his previous opponent's swag in there as
trophies of war (among a good amount of his usual arsenal) that are very useful for specific missions against other super-beings. The van is also a mobile hub for his operation and is able to provide a means of protection and offense against any opposition, making him
a one-man-army of sorts.

Dr. Harrow; expert hacker, machinist, and packrat (LOL) provides a nice cherry (double entendre) to the top of this sundae.

-on the battlefield-

So, i guess the team of Dr. Harrow and Pip the Punisher stand side by
side on our respective side of the field so as soon as we materialize or whatever, Pip the Punisher teleports with Harrow into the van and first things first, grabs his pym belt and green goblin satchel. Pip the Punisher immediately teleports out and leaves Harrow to control the battle van. His personal mission is to attack his enemies with rockets, he can use the on board computers to align them onto our targets. (Now i know forests aren't the best for non-off road vehicles, but the van is really just a kinda-visible target and through some effort along the way, it should be able to find/create a pathways.

Also, Battle van is able to hack global satellites like so:

so Harrow will be able to see our opposition's vehicle(s) better than they see his.

Meanwhile....

Pip the Punisher is using these type goblin bombs (and normal nades too);

http://h.imagehost.org/view/0063/dpsk_05_010 (yes, it oneshotted the entire wreaking crew.); his long-range, scoped, grenade launching assault rifle (and sniper(silenced)); and freeze gun* to systematically take out Digi's team from miles away. Add a hunter's paradise in a temperate forest and it's really slanted.

(*http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1285/puntakesmetas1.jpg

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7637/puntakesmetas2.jpg

^ freeze gun and the pym helmet, check the wide range of one blast)

Even if you could sneak up on this guy:

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7499/punsensesdd.jpg

^ Tracks Daredevil snooping around one of his safe houses, note he could have shot at him here before he detected him, and the drainer added to the mix would have rendered him ...phucked.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9633/punishersensesninja2.jpg

^ A guy "get's the drop on Frank" but gets nowhere even though he
had him dead to rights.

http://s905.photobucket.com/albums/ac255/bobnightfar/?action=view&current=pungunsdowncap1-1.jpg

http://s905.photobucket.com/albums/ac255/bobnightfar/?action=view&current=pungunsdowncap2-1.jpg

http://s905.photobucket.com/albums/ac255/bobnightfar/?action=view&current=pungunsdowncap3-Copy.jpg

^ Could have sniped Captain America's shit

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2280/punarroarrowshot2.jpg

^ As capable in sharpshooting with a bow as he is with a rifle, he oneshots another archer on a motorcycle using just audio cues, don't phuck with this guy.

And you have a speedster?

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5332/punshootsspeedster.jpg

^ Frank's answer to speedsters

The forest will be a great source of camouflage for Pip, teleporting notwithstanding, the Vietnamese defeated the American's superior firepower by utilizing their surroundings, practically making their troops ghosts. Frank makes Rambo look like that dude from Blue's clues anyway so...

Pip the Punisher will be a teleporting predator using his scope to keep an eye on your team, and any hologram or type of illusion will be lost since the long arm of the power drainer will wreak havoc on them, and the real characters will be doubled over in agony without the ability to concentrate. You either focus on the battle van and get drained and shot up, or you try and find Pip and risk getting attacked by Harrow....then drained and sniped. 😐

The drainer's resurrection:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2730/newavengers055mrshepheri.jpg

100 + yards in perimeter of sickness and discord fallows Pip wherever he teleports:

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4001/newavengers055mrshepher.jpg

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4001/newavengers055mrshepher.jpg

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/901/newavengers055mrshephert.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4001/newavengers055mrshepher.jpg

Then the wave of ownage...

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/1382/newavengers56013.jpg

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7425/newavengers56014.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1872/newavengers56015016.jpg

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8002/newavengers56022.jpg

Harrow then hacks the Iron Patriot suit, and the avengers are strone
about:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6588/newavengers56023024.jpg

http://www.picamatic.com/view/5539229_new_avengers_57_007/

http://www.picamatic.com/view/5539212_new_avengers_57_008/

So your meta-human anatomy hurts more than helps in this case,
the suffering only ends by way of rifle bullet from too far to
notice (the agony and jacked up powers will be your biggest concern
anyway)

(Spider-man's new suit won't help him fyi.)

The Moon knight's crescent plane will have a mobility advantage here, but Pip's teleportation has the stealth advantage. If it's fielded, the instant anyone tries to get aboard it, they run the risk of getting shot by armour piercing bullets from a high calibur weapon, the Iron spidey suit is formidable but not to that level of attack. Also, Pip could just as easily teleport within it and stow away without being seen, only the depowering of the drainer, grenades, shooting, etc will make his presence felt. Once the ship is going down either from unconscious pilots or from damage, only Pip would be able to escape. Pip could just shoot the cockpit with the freeze gun and be done with it. 😬

-So to wrap up-

Pip is basically death incarnate, and Harrow is a decent force on his own provided some of the stuff within the van. He can remote hack, fire mounted weapons, use the van as a weapon itself (i'm not above him just running into your hurt guys), and he can use the weaponry on board to defend himself if you get any ideas. There is a Doctor octopus harness in there as well as other nasty things, not to mention the van is armour plated and solid from front to back....and he's kinda expendable.

Frank unenhanced is a one-man-army, here he is giving cap a lesson on how he operates:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4607/image012cwoo0.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/9640/image013lj8.jpg

And here's some of his mindset:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x40/ares050/Comic%20S1anz/ThePunisherv502-IntheBeginning02-04.jpg

so cash

✅"

Digi wrote on Apr 4th, 2010 12:01 PM:
Digi's Writeup (Week 2)

My Team
- Iron Spider-Man
- Moon Knight
- Cpt. Boomerang Jr.
(abbreviated SM, MK, Boomer in writeup)

Prep

- MK amalgamates with Boomer
- MK gives SM a couple exploding and adamantium crescent darts
- MK summons Angelwing (MK's version of the batplane)

Basic Outline

I. Angelwing alone will be able to neutralize any advantage they may have, utilizing its ability to magnetically steal anything metal (which will include Frank's weapons and the drainer gun itself), its ability to track and attack our opponents, and also provide smoke cover for our assault, the terms of which I will dictate due to my team's speed and stealth.

II. My opponent wants to get the drop on me and drain my team using his genetic disruptor. First, MK's powers are mystical in origin, not genetic, so it will not work on him period. Second, the disruptor has never encountered anyone from DC Earth, so the disruptor is unlikely to work on Boomer. Even if it did, he is amalgamated with MK so the drain-blitz will not bring down the amalgam. This is their only credible means of offense. Any other offense his team has is pathetic and counter-able by my team, who have far more firepower and skills than his team.

III. I will also show that my team has such an overwhelming speed, stealth, and reflexes advantage that they will not even have a chance to fire the weapon before it (and my opponent's team) are destroyed.

IV. He has used 2 of his 3 picks on a teleporter and a scientist with the drainer. Having established that this can, at best, affect one of two members of my team, his entire offense otherwise is Frank Castle. At best, Frank has peak human stats and an array of guns, none of which present any threat to me, and many of which will be neutralized by my powers and weapons. Simply put, he has no way of killing my team.

The battle section below will correspond roughly to the I, II, III, and IV sections outlined above.

Battle Plan and Scans (w/explanations)

I. Angelwing

Angelwing will target onto my opponent's team’s heat signatures:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MSMK_v3_53_07.jpg

And magnetically steal all of their weaponry, including the drainer gun:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/mk49_04.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/mk49_05.jpg
or
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MSMK_v3_52_18.jpg

It will also attack and destroy Frank's battle van, and will remain airborne and mobile to lay down smoke cover when we engage them:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/mk49_04.jpg

Angelwing is impervious to bullets, will be flying faster than they ever could, and will remain at a safe distance the entire time, ensuring that we have it for support. Thus, before my team has ever engaged them, they are weaponless and at a strategic disadvantage.

II. Ineffectiveness of Drainer

MK's origin, gaining his powers from the Egyptian god Khonshu
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/LMoonKnight01-10.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/LMoonKnight01-11.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/LMoonKnight01-12.jpg
His powers are from a mystical source (like Juggernaut, for example) not genetic. The drainer gun will have no affect on him whatsoever.

It works on Spidey, yes. PG will likely parade that scan around. But the gun will be gone, and Angelwing then MK+Boomer will initiate the attack. I'm not dumb enough to allow him to use his only possible advantage.

III. Speed/Stealth/Reflexes

Allow me to use this section to introduce Boomer. The speed/reflexes cap for the tourney is set at Classic Quicksilver. Most teams did not take full advantage of this. I did. The following is a battle between a Jay Garrick clone (who can run well beyond the caps, with reflexes to match) and the Outsiders:
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenVsJayClone3.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenVsJayClone4.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenVsJayClone5.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenVsJayClone6.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenVsJayClone8.jpg
And then Boomer steps in:
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenVsJayClone9.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenVsJayClone10.jpg
That's some sh*t right there.

His flat running speed tops out at around Mach 1:
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenSuperspeedMach2.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenSuperspeedMach3.jpg
He can only perform runs in short bursts, not constantly, but can hit the bursts in rapid succession, ensuring that he's never going to be hit.

He can also throw his boomerangs in excess of the speed of sound:
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=FasterthansoundPiper1.jpg

In week 1, PG's defense against speed was Frank spraying bullets. Well, I’m bulletproof:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/mk49_04.jpg
or
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/mk48_04.jpg
So is Iron Spidey, btw.

Or, and this is another awesome feat, I could just block each of the bullets with some loose debris lying around:
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=TaggingBullets1.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=TaggingBullets2.jpg
Bullseye, eat your heart out.

Now add all that to the fact that I have adamantium throwing weapons that MK and Boomer are EXTREMELY skilled with:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MS-MoonKnighv3t35--09.jpg

And, to be perfectly honest, I can put adamantium crescent darts through each and every one of their skulls, and through the drainer, before they could even attack me.

Mind you, I will NOT run straight at them. Angelwing stealing it is my first attack. I will then, however, be on top of them before they have any time to react, but will take a safer, circuitous route. And even if he still has the drainer, it is ineffective against MK and I will destroy him and the gun regardless.

Spider-Man, meanwhile, will use the smoke bomb cover to hide himself in stealth mode:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/471/feat47skillsequipmentrk2.jpg

And will similarly own my opponent's team when the time is right.

SM's speed and reflexes are well-documented. I won't flood the judges with scans unless it's necessary. Here's a taste, though:
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5803/feat4fight3gk0.jpg
Notice how he performs about 5 things before Frank does anything. And that's gundam's fastest character, and my slowest, and a weaker/slower version of SM than I have.

IV. Miscelany

PG's only other offense is guns (stolen by Angelwing, and I'm unable to be harmed by them) and pumpkin bombs. So, funny story:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/marcspectormoonknightv3_045_13.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/marcspectormoonknightv3_045_14.jpg

My least durable character is impervious to his best attack.

I also want to point out that spider-sense can detect teleportation:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7041/feat18sswi1.jpg
And can track them at any time:
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1601/feat5ssje8.jpg
or
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/2120/feat4sswv5.jpg
So I will always have the initiative in the fight.

Conclusion

I steal his weapons, destroy his van, he can't drain Angelwing, I'm faster, stronger, more prepared, the drainer can't affect my most powerful character, and he's got three losers who are WAY out of their league hoping and praying that their only good attack works. PG picked boys for a man's fight, and has one gimmick attack that I have neutralized completely.

Good luck to you however, PG, and to the judges as well. I look forward to our battle.

Game on. Good luck to PG, and thank you to leo and the judges. I'm out until later tonight, but look forward to beginning the match.

Good Luck guys

Digi Post #1

I doubt we'll get through 8 posts each between now and, Friday is it, yes? So I can get the ball rolling, even though I don't feel like I have much to say. But a few quick points:

1. PG made the error of changing, well, nothing from his first battle. My writeup is basically a thorough response post to his initial strategy, and he did me the favor of not throwing me any curveballs to hit. Advantage Digi. At this point I see myself as just piling on, because there's nothing in his writeup that hasn't been addressed in mine.

2.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
(Now i know forests aren't the best for non-off road vehicles, but the van is really just a kinda-visible target and through some effort along the way, it should be able to find/create a pathways.

Translation: Battle Van will not be moving around fast enough to do anything useful. Do you really think a van, that PG states will have trouble, can keep up with the Mach 1 speed (my team) and teleporting (his team) nonsense that will be happening in the battle?

Angelwing destroys the van anyway. But this is just rubbing salt on the wound.

3. The scan of Battle Van hacking satellites includes Frank's partner feeding him the info. I'll happily grant that battle van is standard equipment for Frank, but somehow I doubt his sidekick comes with it. Another worthless tactic.

4.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
The Moon knight's crescent plane will have a mobility advantage here

Concession accepted. I have the faster, more mobile flight, and could probably kill most of their team with Angelwing alone if I really needed to. Well, ok, that's an embellishment, but it's honestly not impossible since he has at best one person beyond peak human durability.

5. Environment! Rainforest! Sequoia trees! How much space will he have in which to operate the drainer? Not much. Or any of his weaponry? Not much. Now add to that my insane speed and reflexes advantages. Basically the trees and my mobility will make it impossible to hit me by any means.

6.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
they run the risk of getting shot by armour piercing bullets from a high calibur weapon, the Iron spidey suit is formidable but not to that level of attack.

Speculation. Here's the only evidence involving Iron Spidey and bullets:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8741/feat5equipment8oh3.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2849/feat5equipment9wo6.jpg
And it's evidence that hurts your point.

But hell, their weapons gets stripped by Angelwing, or stolen and destroyed by Boomer/MK. This point doesn't even need made, but I might as well to be thorough.

Actually, wait, I just realized the far BIGGER error. He just claimed Spider-Man would get hit by a bullet without a plot device involved (like the woman who needed saving in the scan). I dare you to repeat the claim. Me and a mountain of scans are waiting eagerly for it. So unless you do, I think it's safer if we all just ignore that you said it, since it's obviously wrong.

....

That should get us started. My writeup still has the meat of my plan, but this should tie up any loose ends and also gives PG more to think about.

Official post #1

Okay, Digi's went and done it, he brought the crescent thing to the fight, well like a i said in my OP....

"The Moon knight's crescent plane will have a mobility advantage here, but Pip's teleportation has the stealth advantage. If it's fielded, the instant anyone tries to get aboard it, they run the risk of getting shot by armour piercing bullets from a high calibur weapon, the Iron spidey suit is formidable but not to that level of attack. Also, Pip could just as easily teleport within it and stow away without being seen, only the depowering of the drainer, grenades, shooting, etc will make his presence felt. Once the ship is going down either from unconscious pilots or from damage, only Pip would be able to escape. Pip could just shoot the cockpit with the freeze gun and be done with it. 😬 "

Let us delve into this piece of info if you please.

1) YES the Angelwing is indeed very useful for a number of reasons, but digi has to find Pip not only right off the bat, but before he decides to crash the party (pun intended). Pip can teleport and has a long range weapon with a long range scope on it, is in the woods, and can definitely hear the plane's cacophony wreaking the serenity of the forest. Who will find whom first? hmmm again Pip could just teleport aboard the thing and take the fight into his hands lickety split.

2) The battle van is the only real target open to your visual cues here, and it will be trying to gain your attention as the real threat is it's owner. Moon knight remotely pilots the thing to swoop in and change the game, but then again who says the van itself would be in danger of the electromagnetic tractor effect? Tools and weapons sure but a van and it's bullets/rockets in flight going what...1500 meters per second...unlikely. Sure it's bulletproof and all that, but I like the fact that you will have to work hard to take it down given the terrain and inability to truly convincingly effect it greatly with the magna-lift.
Again, it's only a distraction since Pip is my boy here, have fun playing with the van.

3) The notion that Pip's drainer is yours if he were to be caught in the magna-lift field. 2 reasons why i say that's laughable:

i) Well, it's in his backpack afterall, so the initial shock of the magnetic pull those fodder thugs felt from the magneta-lift, the leather sturdy construction of the satchel/backpack (idunno) should keep it where it's at, on his back. So all you would get is an airborne Pip coming straight at your precious ship.

ii) 😬 T.e.l.e.p.o.r.t.i.o.n..... you snag Pip, he ports to safety or lulzingly straight into your ship where he either breaks shit or hijacks it. Th thugs were in plain sight so all Pip has to do is like...hide.

In summery of the Angelwing debacle...

Pip will either be chauffeured to the Angelwing courtesy of magnetic compulsion, teleport mid flight into the damn thing, or hide from it till Moon knight gives up the hunt one way or another...OR Pip just beats you to the chase and simply telports into it early and does what the above point explained. 🙂

Now a bit about this part:

"II. My opponent wants to get the drop on me and drain my team using his genetic disruptor. First, MK's powers are mystical in origin, not genetic, so it will not work on him period. Second, the disruptor has never encountered anyone from DC Earth, so the disruptor is unlikely to work on Boomer. Even if it did, he is amalgamated with MK so the drain-blitz will not bring down the amalgam. This is their only credible means of offense. Any other offense his team has is pathetic and counter-able by my team, who have far more firepower and skills than his team."

Well what exactly is captain boomerang jr.'s reason of even having powers? Metagene or speed force? Also, Ares was taken down by the drainer, so who says Moo knight is safe? Ares is magical, and he went down quick. And Ironfist had to take the antidote or he would have been smashed, anyway, both of those your characters are "iffy" in the draining department, and they are both fused together....

Oh yeah, you showed Moon knight being bullet proof. Well...they use 9mm in those type pistols and auto-pistols, plus they never shot him in the face.....also not with one of these:

😐

(I accidentally saw pictures of the victims of those bullets just looking for a pic where the size is against a known object... I might just go vegan now...😘)

"Puppy bullets" 😐

^ So yeah, Pip could just kill Moon knight, the plane would just stop fighting or keep fighting but you'd eventually lose since Spider-man is a victim of fate here.

Digi's Post #2

For the record, he's sticking with bullets as his primary offense besides the drainer.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Also, Pip could just as easily teleport within it and stow away without being seen, only the depowering of the drainer, grenades, shooting, etc will make his presence felt. Once the ship is going down either from unconscious pilots or from damage, only Pip would be able to escape. Pip could just shoot the cockpit with the freeze gun and be done with it.

Congrats, you've successfully formed a possible strategy for 0/3 of my actual team. If Pip's dumb enough to teleport inside, I instantly detonate the plane or run it into the nearest sequoia. He'd be incinerated before he got his bearings.

But, and I'm genuinely curious here, are there scans of Pip teleporting into an object flying as fast as Angelwing? The timing would have to be perfect or you'd kill yourself.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
1)

So you're saying you'd locate the plane? Cool. That's the only thing I wasn't trying to hide, and it lets me know your position.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
2) The battle van is the only real target open to your visual cues here

Battle van sacrifice accepted. It's a sitting duck, and this is basically confirmation of that. Any of Frank's more exotic weaponry is out of the question. If Angelwing doesn't deal with it, Boomer/MK will. One of these should do nicely:
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenDeadshot2.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenDeadshot3.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=OwenDeadshot4.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam
3) The notion that Pip's drainer is yours if he were to be caught in the magna-lift field. 2 reasons why i say that's laughable:

If you think Angelwing's attack is even close to my primary one, you're deluding yourself. Your little description of how you'd get out of it proves that it would hinder you. And by then you'll have an adamantium dart in your skull, traveling too fast for you to react.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
In summery of the Angelwing debacle...

Lol. Guys, he's confident that he's countered Angelwing. Maybe. If all goes to plan, and you believe everything PG says. Then he only has to deal with, oh, I dunno, my entire team.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Well what exactly is captain boomerang jr.'s reason of even having powers?

Hahaha, you had no idea what to expect from Boomer, did you? To answer your question, even Boomer himself doesn't know, and I'm certainly not going to throw you any bones. The burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Also, Ares was taken down by the drainer, so who says Moo knight is safe? Ares is magical, and he went down quick. And Ironfist had to take the antidote or he would have been smashed, anyway, both of those your characters are "iffy" in the draining department, and they are both fused together....

Ares isn't granted his powers from an outside source. Does the drainer break the link between MK and Khonshu? That doesn't even make sense, not to mention your lack of proof.

The whole thing defies logic. A genetic disruptor can manipulate magical tethers between mortals and Skyfather-level beings? Please. Again, the burden of proof is on you. Stretch its limits if you must; judges are usually not so forgiving of such assumptions.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Oh yeah, you showed Moon knight being bullet proof. Well...they use 9mm in those type pistols and auto-pistols, plus they never shot him in the face.....also not with one of these:

....you're really going with this, aren't you? I guess I need to post these again:
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=TaggingBullets1.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=TaggingBullets2.jpg

THAT'S who you're planning on hitting with a bullet?!?!

I see you dropped the idea that you'd hit Spider-Man though. But since you didn't offer a formal apology to the man who dodges bullet sprays for breakfast:
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6981/feat1speedli3.jpg
or
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4840/feat1speedgb1.jpg
I seem to remember seeing rockets mentioned, so that last one is pertinent.
or dodging a bullet AFTER it's fired:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7329/feat42speedmw3.jpg
or
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9123/feat31speeder6.jpg

That last one actually involves Punisher. Really, this whole tactic is just embarrassing for PG.

...and this is a forum battle, so I have bloodlusted Spidey with his "The Other" upgrades (including speed), so what I show is actually less than what he's capable of.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
"Puppy bullets" 😐

Now that implication is just cruel. Judges. PG hates puppies. Are you going to stand for this?

biscuits

____________________

News and Notes

- He never mentioned how he'd find Spidey? Stealth mode and spider-sense, remember. I initiate the fight.

- Or how he'd be able to attack before I detect you with spider-sense and react at 40x human speed (probably more with upgrades) which is at least 20x Punisher.

- Or how he'd negate the advantage and cover that the trees provide for me, making the drainer VERY limited in its range.

- Seriously though, Boomer's just too damn fast. I pushed the tourney limits with him to have a speed edge over almost any team, while PG dipped WAY under them. PG's got a gun and a prayer...and not much of one.

pardon the interruption. judges for this match are: kandy, bran, jlk.

proceed. 😄

Digi Post #3

We're never hitting 8 posts before Friday, so I'm not worried about double posting. I don't want to flood the judges with extraneous stuff, but here's some random ideas and scans that reinforce my points:

- Even my slowest character make a mockery of his plan to shoot us with bullets:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarcSpectorMoonKnight551993Angry-3.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/MarcSpectorMoonKnight551993Angry-4.jpg
MK is my slowest character by a LOT, mind you.

- If Spider-Man can even touch them, they're in trouble. His stingers (part of his "The Other" upgrades that my version has) release a paralytic toxin:
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4826/feat21other1oq5.jpg
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/5899/feat21other2sr5.jpg

- I literally just realized this as I was going through Angelwing showings...I've never seen anyone inside of it. MK always rides on top of it. I don't think there's a cockpit. It's only controlled by MK remotely. PG's idea of having Pip teleport inside is probably impossible. I will endeavor to confirm/deny this before the end of the battle. Not that it matters, but it might give me one additional edge in the fight.

- Remember that Spider-Man can do stuff like this:
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8161/venom01615ld8.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1361/venom01616lx2.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7609/venom01617mn6.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1266/venom01618od4.jpg
...PG has Punisher, Pip, and Dr. Harrow. Not exactly of equal caliber to Venom or Spidey. One attack. That's all I need.

- Spider-Man has also displayed lightning accuracy with projectiles, and has adamantium crescent darts from MK in prep. One toss, they're dead before they can react. Boomer/MK will be better equipped for this, but either of my guys could perform it.

________

Ask yourself this: will he defeat my entire team before I get in a single attack? Because that all I need to destroy his gun, kill him, or both. I have a tourney capped speedster, amalgamated with someone immune to the drainer, adamantium weaponry, and a bloodlusted goddamned legend that can run circles around him. All in a dense forest that negates his main advantages.

Originally posted by Digi
Ask yourself this: will he defeat my entire team before I get in a single attack? Because that all I need to destroy his gun, kill him, or both. I have a tourney capped speedster, amalgamated with someone immune to the drainer, adamantium weaponry, and a bloodlusted goddamned legend that can run circles around him. All in a dense forest that negates his main advantages.

"I have a tourney capped speedster, amalgamated with someone immune to the drainer"

^ So you're coming to terms with Boomerang being a meta-human (or enhanced in some way, Bucky was effected just as much as Spider-man was). My first response post was just a walk through of the branches of possibilities stemming from the Angelwing should Pip be even found by it when Digi needs it the most, let's not forget. Pip being located by the thing is very unlikely due to the terrain and circumstances here, and the massive teleportation wrench thrown in to the mix makes it even more unlikely.

A huge thing being overlooked (touched on in the start of this post) was Moon knight's Siamese twin in Boomerang. Moon knight is "arguably" immune (lol not really), but Boomerang is an ingredient that ruins all of that "possible" immunity... and all Pip would have to do to simultaneously take out him and his loud toy in the sky would be to get WITHIN A PROXIMITY OF.... HUNDREDS OF METERS (being generous)

^ depicted in relation to each other

So in essence, Pip only has to catch you with the drainer (he will be moving throughout the landscape unhindered by anything) and it's game over for all of your team, Spider-man is hiding. 😬

Earlier you mentioned Boomerang being able to defend himself from ALL gunfire... well. (provided he's not drained and in fetal position)

"uzi (standard goon weapon) = 390 m/s (1,280 ft/s)

barret (note* Frank uses purely modified weaponry for use against super-humans, modifications are done by like-minded benefactors and himself using advanced stolen tech) 853 m/s (2,799 ft/s) (most appropriate estimate)"

Those sniper rounds also carry quite the punch when they make contact, a lot more than tine 9mm your scans have, plus you have the ability to see their source and aim block, not the case here at all.

^ Those rounds will be fires from all angles and without Boomerang's much needed focus on said rounds -- he definitely has speed and skill but telescopic vision and the ability to know when to defend from out of the blue... not so much-- not too mention i have a Pym'd freeze gun and Goblin bombs.

The Angelwing and a good amount of Moon knight's tech was worked on by none other than HARROW, he knows how everything works:

(people should pay me to pick characters for them)

^ so hacking it would be cake. Not bad for my throwaway guy. 🙂

So again. The drainer's reach could very well just take you down from jump just by being in the same vicinity as Pip. All you get is a Battlevan as a visible target (though the terrain will be problematic, sequoia are phucking huge + Harrow can fight back to say the least),
your team is ALL susceptible to the drainer and Pip doesn't even need to get too close, just within a something like 100+ meters and your guys drop like they were Rat poisoned.

Digi Post #4

Originally posted by psycho gundam
So you're coming to terms with Boomerang being a meta-human (or enhanced in some way

I said no such thing, nor did I imply it through any of my comments. Don't make things up because you need to find a point to argue where no logical argument exists.

However, I'm increasingly convinced you haven't read my previous posts, because I've never claimed Boomer is immune to the drainer. The fact is, we don't know if he is or not, and I dislike dealing in blind speculation. What I have claimed is that MK is immune. So far you've provided no evidence to dissuade my opinion.

In any case, my only claim about Boomer is that he's too fast to be located or hit by you, by anything. For the record though, judges, PG's defense against draining MK is the following:

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Moon knight is "arguably" immune (lol not really)

Has he provided a scan that suggests that the GENETIC gun could break the magical tie between Khonshu and MK? No. Has he even provided a viable logical reason for it? No. His response is "lol not really." That's his reply.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
but Boomerang is an ingredient that ruins all of that "possible" immunity... and all Pip would have to do to simultaneously take out him and his loud toy in the sky would be to get WITHIN A PROXIMITY OF.... HUNDREDS OF METERS (being generous)

Three points on this:
- One, Boomer is half the amalgamation. Best case scenario for PG, he hits Boomer/MK with the drainer. That 1/2 of my amalgamation. In what world does 50% = 100% negated?

- Two, "Hundreds of meters" he says. Ignore the little drawing he made...that's PG's own speculation, not a scan that represents evidence. The actual question is: does a scan exist where the drainer works from hundreds of meters away? Or through dense objects like buildings or trees (remember, we're surrounded by sequoias)? Fact is, he has neither.

- Three, the drawing also erroneously suggests that the affect is omnidirectional, when it's very clear that it needs to be pointed in a particular direction to work. Otherwise it wouldn't be a gun, it would just be maybe a button you press that releases a signal.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Spider-man is hiding.

Also ignoring what I've actually said. Spider-Man is in stealth mode, using his spider-sense to track you down (shown earlier) and picking a spot to attack you when you won't have a chance to react before you're dead.

You still haven't shown how you would detect someone who is, to your senses, essentially invisible.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
"uzi (standard goon weapon) = 390 m/s (1,280 ft/s)

barret (note* Frank uses purely modified weaponry for use against super-humans, modifications are done by like-minded benefactors and himself using advanced stolen tech) 853 m/s (2,799 ft/s) (most appropriate estimate)"

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Those sniper rounds also carry quite the punch when they make contact, a lot more than tine 9mm your scans have, plus you have the ability to see their source and aim block, not the case here at all.

Sniper rifles take time to aim and fire, and so are worthless against me. And regular bullet sprays I'm completely immune to.

I'm shocked you're sticking with this. A team that's literally built for dodging bullets and you're trying to shoot us. Again, here's my SLOWEST character by a lot, dodging none other than Frank himself:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/LMoonKnight10-20.jpg
against Punisher:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/ms_-_moon_knight_v3_036_p09.jpg

MK is faster than their entire team. But to my other two, PG is moving in slow motion, as are the bullets.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ Those rounds will be fires from all angles and without Boomerang's much needed focus on said rounds -- he definitely has speed and skill but telescopic vision and the ability to know when to defend from out of the blue... not so much-- not too mention i have a Pym'd freeze gun and Goblin bombs.

- From all angles, eh? So Frank's capable of an omni-directional bullet spray that accounts for anywhere Boomer might attack from, can get past bullet-proof armor, and leaves you time to react before I put a hypersonic adamantium weapon through your brain. That's impressive, really. I had no idea Frank was the goddamn Flash.

- Battle Van's destroyed (that was my opening tactic), and you don't start with a freezer gun, as it's not standard equipment for Frank. Scratch that tactic.

- Pumpkin Bombs. More evidence that he's either not reading everything I've posted, or he hopes the judges don't:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/marcspectormoonknightv3_045_13.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/marcspectormoonknightv3_045_14.jpg
And SM's armor is much more durable.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
The Angelwing and a good amount of Moon knight's tech was worked on by none other than HARROW, he knows how everything works

And I quote:
The digital transmitters won't charge from the solar panels in the war room. The rotating cage in the garage sticks when I have a full rack of vehicles. I need a hatch built into the roof for the Helo. The rev limiter's hitting too early when I accelerate on the cycle. And I'm getting a hitch on the tripwire gun when I fire -- It flies a few millimeters high and right.

PG, stop making things up. Show me where Angelwing is ever mentioned. Hell, he didn't even work on anything I'm using in this fight.

Besides, you can't "work" on adamantium and explosive crescent darts. A fat lot of good that will do when either of my boys puts one between your teeth.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
(people should pay me to pick characters for them)

There's a reason they don't. Mysterio would've been high level for your purposes. You know I believe that. A shame he got banned, because the rest of your team is a bunch of mid-street-at-best losers with one gimmick attack.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ so hacking it would be cake. Not bad for my throwaway guy. 🙂

Hacking it with what? And In the middle of a battle? All of his hacks had lopsided prep time. The only thing you have from him as standard equipment in the drainer gun. How exactly are you planning to hack Angelwing with nothing at all, and no time in which to accomplish it?! I'm sure the judges would love to hear it as well.

Even if PG is able to back up the claim that Harrow has worked on Angelwing (he hasn't yet), it doesn't equal instant hax. He needs time and he needs tools. He has neither. He's an old man inventor, not a technopath.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
though the terrain will be problematic, sequoia are phucking huge

Double standard. Judges, he wants you to ignore the massive problems that the sequoias pose for his drainer gun, but wants you to think of them when considering me taking out battle van. And tell me, which one of those two is more important to the overall plan?

The things are "phucking huge" (his words, not mine). I'll let PG's own opinions do the talking there.

^ C'mon Digi. Were you reading any of your opponent's posts?

--------------------------------------------------------

So this looks like my last post for this match since i just got home from work, and it also looks like I have to go over some stuff
again.....

1) Pip's teleportaion is unstoppable in this situation, and his opposition has no means of properly finding and subduing him.

Reasons for which are; Pip is constantly enveloped by a 100+ meter draining zone that is nigh instantaneous in it's effect, and digi's two characters are unacceptable to it (spider-man and the amalgam); The addition of Boomerang negatively effects the debatable resistance of Moon knight since they are now one being. Best case scenario for the amalgam is for it to be 50% affected by the drainer...still not good enough to put up any sort of defense especially when Pip is using a powerful weapon with ill intent.

2) The drainer's undetermined radius is irrelevant when the midpoint isn't fixed (unlimited teleportation). Your team should be running away from Pip just to survive, but they are oblivious to the power drainer so....

3) Pip has an ice gun not too unlike that of Captain cold's, and even Boomerang as a black lantern couldn't do squat about it's blast,
that could very well happen again here, being drained and unlimited teleportation will definitely make it so.

4) A forest is Pip's (Frank Castle's) type of terrain to exploit, the Sequoia provide ample hiding spots and nobody on your team can hope to come close to Pip at all. Angelwing can try and take him down but Harrow in the van will be feeding him it's location via wireless earpiece up till the point he either gets killed or we beat you before that can happen, so getting the drop on Pip ain't happening.

You wanted to know how Harrow could hack the Angelwing from the van, well the Battlevan has on-board computers that allow access to the outside world. Just like the Iron patriot armour, the Angelwing is a supposed protected network...Harrow hacked that shit hard, Osborn couldn't do jack to save himself (scans in the OP) cause Harrow is a near-Stark level genius in terms of network security...especially after hacking Stark tech in the Iron patriot armour. (note* Stark took back his suit by shutting down the Iron patriot armour in a similar matter as Harrow did)

Angelwing > Stark tech?

Oh yeah, lol at the trees being any sort of hindrance to the drainer. Radiation (including radio waves and cellular waves) are 9/10 hindered by concrete, that is why it is a main component to radioactive material storage. Trees in a forest on the other hand....LOL.

At the end of the day, you have no real defense for my attack, Spider-man is indeed hiding, but once he gets caught in the influence, he will make all those groans ans shit and get shot. Your amalgam can't use his fancy moves to stop getting drained before shots are fired.

The rifle Pip is carying has a a multi-mile range and is superior to the Barret-m82 which has been known to cut men in half from over 4 miles away in combat situations. The "from all angles" thing i mentioned earlier was obviously pertaining to Pip's teleportation ability in conjunction with his shooting skills. Your guys won't have a fixed target to dodge from yet Pip will have relative non-moving targets in his victims in which he can port around and shoot at from anywhere within what...4 miles.

"PG, stop making things up. Show me where Angelwing is ever mentioned. Hell, he didn't even work on anything I'm using in this fight.

Besides, you can't "work" on adamantium and explosive crescent darts. A fat lot of good that will do when either of my boys puts one between your teeth."

Well, I was trying to point out Harrow's familiarity with Spector's tech. Sure he can't effectively work Adamanitum, but the darts do have weights inserted in them to correct their trajectory.

"A fat lot of good that will do when either of my boys puts one between your teeth" LOL, from where are you going to attempt to do this? And how prey tell are they going to be able to move once they are within distance and ass deep in the draining effect?

^ That's your team in a nutshell.

OK, i'm going to make this one short and sweet, because really there wasn't much in question.

Psycho's offense relied on draining their powers by getting in close enough range, either teleporting into the angel wing (which wouldn't work since it's remotely operated), or somehow hacking into it at very short notice, employing a variety of high-tech devices for either plan. While they are drained, he intends to shoot them.

Meanwhile, Digi is going to take away all his weaponry with magnetic defense, and in terms of speed can't be hit by bullets.

I think anyone can see the problem here.

Yeah, the power drainer would work, imo. I didn't see any evidence it only affected Genetic powers, and it was called a "generic" disruptor in the text. However, it's a moot point. Magnetism from the angel wing makes it go bye bye.

Psycho has little means of finding Digi's characters besides trial and error teleportation without his powers. Meanwhile, Digi can scour the battlefield easily with angel wing. Psycho can teleport into the angel wing, but what good will that do? He's teleported into things way harder than a moving plane before, so he can definitely do it, but if he tries to "chill", digi can just have it self destruct.

Based on what I see as the futility of psycho's attack plan, I'm going to have to give this one to Digi.

Guys, I will give my review ASAP. I was planning to do in in one hour but my boss is making me drive 120 miles for some stupid piece of trash. I will give my decision by 5-6Pm EPT

First off, pretty sneaky Digi.
*wonders what would happen if PG changed his plan*

Anyway, Digi pretty much counter planned against every attack possible. That's what the battle boils down to.

First thing Digi does is have Anglewing spam magnetic powers. Which I feel really changes this battle tremendously.

There's really no excuse that he doesn't take all the weapons (guns, drainer) on the field, other than 'leather satchel'. While I feel this would happen instantly, he then has him destroy the battlevan, and based on his locating heat signatures, I see no reason why this wouldn't work either (which was never expanded on).

With one character out (Harrow in battlevan), no weapons, PG still has no backup plan for Pip, and has him take out Angelwing. This means PG has no character dedicated to the field at the time. And Pip is dealing with merely a vehicle that will destroy itself upon first contact (which would certainly be a basis to find him). If this takes out Pip or not, it's irrelevant as PG now only has a weaponless character against a full team of Digi's who had to do absolutely nothing to get to this point.

I don't think I need to get into detail of how bad this would end at this point in time. With the speed, spikes Spidey has, adamantium darts, and exploding boomerangs, Pipisher simply doesn't stand a chance, although he could certainly annoy for a while.

Not saying PG did bad, as this was a good battle, but Digi counter prepped him seemlessly. Which is why I won't expand on the example of bullets, the power drainer, etc.

My vote is for Digi.

Hello, everyone.
I apologize for not being able to post this any sooner, but I did read the post a couple of times to make my decision as best as I can. I just want to state that this match up was very hard for me to decide because it uses amalgamate characters and I had to read quite a lot of info on some of these characters to understand them more then I already know.

First off, I didn't really think Gundam's prep was very nice. Yeah, it made sense at the beginning, but I do believe Digi's Prep countered most of Gundam's Prep.

Digi's explanation and scans of the Angelwing's ability was very nice and direct. I though it made a very nice impact on the prep. Why? It has Heat Signatures and powerful magnets to take his opponents weapons. However, what I wonder was that how will Angelwing stop the rockets from attacking it? It's magnet will just help get itself destroyed. Digi did not show I fast it can go, or if it is faster then standard rocket launchers..etc.

For Digi's 1st post, he pretty much explains very nicely why he showed win, and I agree with many of them. IF you guys need me to explain why, I will. For now, I will not explain it, but if you need me to, I will.

For Gundam's 1st post, I believe he failed to realize that the Angelwind can detect heat, thus teleporting wont really be a weapon to attack, or hide, but a weapon to escape. However, Gundam did a nice job bringing up the point of explaining that a high caliber bullet is different from a 9mm pistol.

Digi's 2nd post was pretty nice. He pretty much proved Frank can't hit Spiderman easily. Nothing else that can to mind.

Digi's 3rd post was again, pretty nice. He shows MK dodging nicely on a field where there is no actual place to hide and duck for cover. Very nicely. Nothing else to say about this post that is worth typing.

Gundam's 2nd post didn't address to much of the issues. However, he did make a point about the map despite making minor mistake about it. Although, he didn't persuade me about Frank being able to easily attack and hit Digi's member.

Digi's 4th post address most of Gundam's post. He made a sturdy argument towards the drainer which I agreed(not entirely). He did address the bullet issues, Freeze gun, and P-Bombs. Should I address more of this post.

Gundam's 3rd post(?) made several points including hacking ability, radio/radiation waves, and other stuff like the potential ability of teleporting.

Conclusion
Okay, First off, good job to both of you. I liked how you both tried to stick to your apparent advantages and at the same time argue against each other. 👆

For Prep points, I have to give it to Digi. He made a good argument and counter argument against Gundam's. Nevertheless, Gundam had his points as well.

For the battle itself, proof/scans, and the amount of argument you guys made, I still say Digi did a better job. However, this is not to say that Gundamn didn't have his moment where he shined.

What I though made a huge impact on both argument is as follows.
For Digi
- He proved that the Angelwing is a huge advantage in this fight. He pretty much in my opinion made Frank useless. Why? Well, Digi did prove that he can find people using head signatures, and powerful magnet to steal weapon(all weapons he found dangerous)
- He proved that rifles can't fire fast, but can't dispute the fact that they are powerful. Now even if it was, it wouldn't matter why? He posted proof and very very strong ones that shows MK and SM dodging Franks bullets(spams too)
- Provide proof that terrain is a nice advantage for Spiderman
- Nice tanking ability
- Spiderman's senses
- there were others but this to me made a nice impact

For Gundam
- Bullets are dangerous
- Teleporting is nice defense(for escape only)
- Have long range advantage
- Drainer can be fatal. He proved a lot about radio/radiation waves. However he didn't prove that the drainer is actually like Radiation or radio waves, or how strong the radiation is. They have to be pretty powerful to go through walls. Woods needs less power though 👆 Good job.

So the way I saw this match up going is that the AW would do huge damage to the Van(destruction). Frank could easily shows his
position if he fires or the heat finder will locate him or anyone else it needs. I don't know how Gundam's team would stop the Aw. Teleporting on it is death and that's if he could(didn't provide proof).

The Drainer could be taken by the AW and all of Franks weapons. So, he becomes a much weaker threat.

Gundam's team would have a hard time hitting anyone on Digi's team. They proved time and time again that they can dodge it spam bullets.

So without further stalling, I declare that Digi wins. Congratulations to the both of you. I am truly sorry I couldn't post earlier. I hope it was good judgement of me.

It would seem that my vote was not needed. Too bad, while I was reviewing who won, the match was already decided

No worries JLK. I like to hear all judges' opinions. Often times it has helped me in later matches in my tourneys.

Good match gundam, and I guess you're rooting for me now, since you're in without a playoff if I beat Blair.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
he didn't persuade me about Frank being able to easily attack and hit Digi's member.

...which is surprising given its size.

fdog

Originally posted by Digi
No worries JLK. I like to hear all judges' opinions. Often times it has helped me in later matches in my tourneys.

Good match gundam, and I guess you're rooting for me now, since you're in without a playoff if I beat Blair.