Silver Surfer vs Sentry WITH Void.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You disagreed with erik so you set up a thread pitting Superman against the Void to bait him. That was the sole purpose immediately following when he disagreed with you as did anyone with common sense as to why the Void was defeated. You were foiled when bendis flat out confirmed the obvious.

Not everyone agrees and you have already admitted you hate the character and try to downplay him at every turn.

I brought him into it because you baited him right after he disagreed with you. Void crushes Thor at his best and anyone who comprehended the siege comics understood that before bendis flat out confirmed it.

I put Superman against Void because most people agree that him and Thor are roughly on the same page with one another. I asked specifically how would Superman fare in comparison to Void in terms of the context of Siege and in a forum fight alike. If he took offense to it and got butt hurt (I doubt it) about me putting Superman against Void, that's not my problem.

Bendis also confirmed that you can't take anything Void said at face value nor was he ever in control of himself. And like Rage has pointed out, Bendis' statements don't really mean shit in the long run if he blatantly lies or contradicts himself ala the whole "Strange/Chaos Magic" debacle.

And seriously, putting a character that someone likes up against an opponent that most agree he'd lose to is baiting now? Grow the hell up. "Oh, he put my favorite character in a less than favorable position on a VS forum" is a pitiful argument to make. I've seen plenty of spite Thor matches or matches where Thor is clearly out matched. I don't think "Hey, this bastard is trying to bait me by using my favorite comic character in a fight he probably can't win!"

Quan, playing the "Holier than Thou" card really, and I mean really doesn't suit you.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I put Superman against Void because most people agree that him and Thor are roughly on the same page with one another. I asked specifically how would Superman fare in comparison to Void in terms of the context of Siege and in a forum fight alike. If he took offense to it and got butt hurt (I doubt it) about me putting Superman against Void, that's not my problem.

Bendis also confirmed that you can't take anything Void said at face value nor was he ever in control of himself. And like Rage has pointed out, Bendis' statements don't really mean shit in the long run if he blatantly lies or contradicts himself ala the whole "Strange/Chaos Magic" debacle.

And seriously, putting a character that someone likes up against an opponent that most agree he'd lose to is baiting now? Grow the hell up. "Oh, he put my favorite character in a less than favorable position on a VS forum" is a pitiful argument to make. I've seen plenty of spite Thor matches or matches where Thor is clearly out matched. I don't think "Hey, this bastard is trying to bait me by using my favorite comic character in a fight he probably can't win!"

Quan, playing the "Holier than Thou" card really, and I mean [b]really doesn't suit you. [/B]

Bendis clarified the obvious that Void can come back when he wants to and the only reason Thor was able to kill him is because the Void allowed him to. Even outside his own control he was able to best MM, destroy asgard, and kill Loki who was amped. Wow. That's even more impressive.

Acting like the thread rage wanted me to answer in wasn't bait is a slap in the face of intelligence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It was created because you disagreed with erik and wanted to bait him. It's all plain to see. You can deny it all you want but when Thor gets stomped you get upset you shouldn't as the Void beating your ass isn't a low mark.

Bendis clarified the obvious that Void can come back when he wants to and the only reason Thor was able to kill him is because the Void allowed him to. Even outside his own control he was able to best MM, destroy asgard, and kill Loki who was amped. Wow. That's even more impressive.

Acting like the thread rage wanted me to answer in wasn't bait is a slap in the face of intelligence.

So, me disagreeing with him - which I was fine with and was quite amiable with - results in me trying to bait him? I have more respect for him and myself than to try to "get back" at him through the god damn Versus Forums, Quan. 😬

I don't think Void stomps a lot of High Heralds based on feats alone. Superman, Thor, Surfer, etc. They lose a large majority, sure, but Void doesn't ragestomp them. And if Siege doesn't tell you that much, I can't help you.

Even if it was a bait thread, why avoid it like the plague? Hell, the fact you're dodging it just proves that the answer is something you don't want to have to consider and only further paints you as some ill-informed poster with a warped sense of logic. Avoiding a vs. thread because it pits two of your favorite characters against one another is ridiculous, even if the deck is stacked in one's favor. If you think Void wins, great. If Thanos wins, awesome.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, me disagreeing with him - which I was fine with and was quite amiable with - results in me trying to bait him? I have more respect for him and myself than to try to "get back" at him through the god damn Versus Forums, Quan. 😬

I don't think Void stomps a lot of High Heralds based on feats alone. Superman, Thor, Surfer, etc. They lose a large majority, sure, but Void doesn't ragestomp them. And if Siege doesn't tell you that much, I can't help you.

Even if it was a bait thread, why avoid it like the plague? Hell, the fact you're dodging it just proves that the answer is something you don't want to have to consider and only further paints you as some ill-informed poster with a warped sense of logic. Avoiding a vs. thread because it pits two of your favorite characters against one another is ridiculous, even if the deck is stacked in one's favor. If you think Void wins, great. If Thanos wins, awesome.

He was beating a team of avengers and even taking them on amped which the writer later went on to confirm Sentry only lost because he wanted to. That's it. He can keep coming back and has no limits so they were screwed outside Bob showing up.

I don't give baiters want they want. I make them suffer and won't show up simply because they beg me for an answer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You baited him be honest. I don't really care either way but to act like there hasn't been a lot of baiting with the Void and recent Thanos threads is asinine.

He was beating a team of avengers and even taking them on amped which the writer later went on to confirm Sentry only lost because he wanted to. That's it. He can keep coming back and has no limits so they were screwed outside Bob showing up.

I don't give baiters want they want. I make them suffer and won't show up simply because they beg me for an answer.

I didn't bait him. If you don't care, why bring it up in the first place? I've seen a lot of Thor threads where he's gimped or possibly set up to lose by the OP. I don't think it's "bait". And I'm fine with it. Superman = Thor (as far as most people are concerned, give or take a few) so it was only natural a Superman vs. Void/Sentry thread would pop up after Siege. So fail on that count, Quan.

Great. He took on a High Herald and some metas who were given a vague amp. Acting like Void's feats in Siege are among the most impressive you've ever seen is ridiculous, and yet, not a stretch based on what else you've claimed.

No, you just dodge questions and threads out of some misguided endeavor not to fall out of grace with Thanos or Void.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Which essentially means it's not true Warriors Madness. You are literally stating evidence that counters your own position. The only parallel that was drawn from Warriors Madness was it's intense bloodlust. Across thirteen whole issues of Blood and Thunder AND Thor #461-67, there is no mention of a strength/power amp. Just this vague reference where he recovers his vigor... which he's done in every epic fight he's ever had if you read Thor. Twenty issues and nobody thought to even state that Thor's power grew considerably? NOBODY? You're reaching. Hard.

Because Thor isn't hitting him any more, maybe?

I saw quite a lot of example in regards to an amp in Thor vigors.. I've explained all about it in previous post..

Yeah.. but i've posted that scan to show you that within that time frame Surfer should have fully recovered from Thors previous attack, then i've posted scans of quick recovery from a near death Surfer. This should have proven that after that bills statement scene, Thor one shotted a fully powered Surfer which should contradict the non amp idea, considering he weren't able to knock him out from few shots in the head in the previous round..

Wonderman isn't Thor. And Surfer hadn't just absorbed a portion of the Sun's power during Blood and Thunder. Blood-lusted = not holding back. I don't think anyone's EVER considered the concept of blood-lusted to mean that they are fully powered. It literally has nothing to do with that concept.

Surfer suicide run drained him of all his energies incl. one's his absorb from the sun, was unconscious then got caught by that planet gravity and made a planet fall and after landing he was being pummeled by WM.. He fully recovered @ full power while being attack by WM..

Right i did say not holding back, when i said full power i meant it as using his max power, full strength.. One should not garnered any more increase in ones vigor since max capacity is used..

h... no. Trying to use a magic eraser on the beatdown that Thor gave Surfer to project some kind of strength amp on Thor later on is idiotic. Why you continue to ignore that Thor beat on him before "one-shotting" him (which invariably makes it not a one-shotting) is beyond me. Instead of taking into account the context that makes the events more understandable, you're essentially ignoring that context to cast it as some sort of freakishly unbelievable occurrence, to discredit it. Cutting the nose off, to spite the face much?

No, what you don't seem to account is that the other char. involved have very impressive feat under they're belt without knowing some of this feat it is hardpressed for you to understand what some of us that knows see's.. I am neither discrediting his showing but rather trying to find the middle .. ???

Far-out cry because Loki is amping Surfer. Are you seriously suggesting that Loki's power cannot harm Thor? Especially when Loki is combinging his power with the Surfer's? lolwut? Remember when Loki was combining his power with Surfer's? In case you don't, here: http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...verSurfer02.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/i/ssweaknx0.jpg/

How much power did loki merged with Surfer? don't know. How depowered was Surfer? don't really know but he could have fled that monster with a shrug but instead it took his all.. That should say by a lot.. So we have to go middle..

The memory was distant. And Warlock's recollection of it was understated. He literally states as much: Adam couldn't recall just how powerful Thor was and was reminded painfully. Adam literally states that Thor is much quicker than he "remembers" and that he is even "more dangerous than [he] remember[s]." How hard is it for you to continue avoiding that all these so-called comparisons actually are compared to Warlock's "distant memory?" Pretty hard I'd imagine: http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...amWarlock02.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...amWarlock03.jpg

Nowhere. Because despite all your prevarications and not-so-subtle maneuvers around context, I doubt you'd go so far as to concoct utter bs. What you're doing is taking someone's statement that literally means, "This is not Warriors Madness" -- and then translate that as, "Well he mentioned Warriors Madness in the same breath so whatever he had must have been exactly similar to Warriors Madness, including a 10x strength-amp." That's not how negative statements work. That's literally the opposite conclusion you should have come to with such a clear statement.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
hat amount of desperate straw grasping you are resorting to is pretty hilarious.

So the fact that Silver Surfer didn't create omni directional attacks somehow means he wasn't using his full power despite the fact that he said he was not holding back anymore? Lol.

Just because the blasts that he were releasing were not in the planet wiping scale it doesn't mean he wasn't using the same amount of energy. It's very likely he simply concentrated his power.

A figure of speech.
.

If you literaly took that as it is then you should take this scan as is also..

http://img232.imageshack.us/i/85550918.jpg/

because as ive stated in several post surfer has never, not once even against opponent who's done much more done being insane like say killed a lover, friend, family etch yet never unleashed his full power..

Gota go, nice day outside.. ill addresed the rest later..

Originally posted by Ambient
Like i've said on previous post. Your right, it is not true warrior madness.. However like most psychological disorder, the diagnosis of this condition can only be attained through identifying its symptoms and just because a diagnosis is wrong it does not literally means the symptoms is also wrong, course this is pertaining to Bills statement, regarding "drawing strength from the madness.." then we've also got Odin's statement regarding the insanity spreading like the real WM. Two similar symptoms pertaining to true WM. Is it really quite diff. to believed that whatever the insanity is, its tapping to the same sources as what makes WM, WM and that is the berserker within all asgardians..

I saw quite a lot of example in regards to an amp in Thor vigors.. I've explained all about it in previous post..

Yeah.. but i've posted that scan to show you that within that time frame Surfer should have fully recovered from Thors previous attack, then i've posted scans of quick recovery from a near death Surfer. This should have proven that after that bills statement scene, Thor one shotted a fully powered Surfer which should contradict the non amp idea, considering he weren't able to knock him out from few shots in the head in the previous round..

You're projecting what you wish happened despite 20+ comics not stating as such.

Give me a BREAK. You're taking me to task for not seeing how obvious it was for Thor to be amped, (because he recovered almost instantly from four Stormbreaker shots) and you're suggesting that Silver Surfer should have easily recovered from several Mjolnir shots almost instantly because Surfer's done so before in the past? What do you think my referencing Thor's comebacks from beatdowns was all about?! Thor's done the same and from worse! That isn't evidence of an amp! You obviously recognize this because normal Surfer according to you also recovers near instantly from assaults... even near-death ones!!! How about I start projecting some sort of amp onto all those Surfer feats and see how you like dealing with such an inane crusade of misinformation?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I didn't bait him. If you don't care, why bring it up in the first place? I've seen a lot of Thor threads where he's gimped or possibly set up to lose by the OP. I don't think it's "bait". And I'm fine with it. Superman = Thor (as far as most people are concerned, give or take a few) so it was only natural a Superman vs. Void/Sentry thread would pop up after Siege. So fail on that count, Quan.

Great. He took on a High Herald and some metas who were given a vague amp. Acting like Void's feats in Siege are among the most impressive you've ever seen is ridiculous, and yet, not a stretch based on what else you've claimed.

No, you just dodge questions and threads out of some misguided endeavor not to fall out of grace with Thanos or Void.

You did so to trap erik into saying Sentry wins because you knew even though he sided against Thor the man won't give him the win over Superman due to his love for that character. Don't play dumb it was obvious.

The writer backed up there was no other way for it to end other than him wanting to go away. For Thor, Loki, and the avengers to be helpless against a character and for them not to be able to defeat him is very impressive.

When threads are set up just to hear me say something I won't give it to them. They can dream of me posting in the thread but it won't happen more than likely if they set it up just to hear me give a certain answer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Most of the baiting has to do with the timing of other disagreements in other threads. The Void hate has risen so high posters pit him against various characters and go bat shit insane when people argue for the Void and they say it isn't bait.

You did so to trap erik into saying Sentry wins because you knew even though he sided against Thor the man won't give him the win over Superman due to his love for that character. Don't play dumb it was obvious.

The writer backed up there was no other way for it to end other than him wanting to go away. For Thor, Loki, and the avengers to be helpless against a character and for them not to be able to defeat him is very impressive.

When threads are set up just to hear me say something I won't give it to them. They can dream of me posting in the thread but it won't happen more than likely if they set it up just to hear me give a certain answer.

Originally posted by Ambient
No its the fact that he was poorly shown, specially for a char. in his caliber who is capable of much more than one supposedly concentrated blast of planet wiping scale..lol

If you literaly took that as it is then you should take this scan as is also..

http://img232.imageshack.us/i/85550918.jpg/

because as ive stated in several post surfer has never, not once even against opponent who's done much more done being insane like say killed a lover, friend, family etch yet never unleashed his full power..

Gota go, nice day outside.. ill addresed the rest later..

If it helps you sleep better at night, think of them as concentrated bursts that were capable of wiping out systems. I don't care.

Fine, I'll take it as literally. In that one instance, Silver Surfer was able to one shot kill Thor. That's one scene contradicted by like a dozen other times when Thor tanks Silver Surfer's attacks unharmed completely.

Apparently he was not holding back there. He realized how much of a danger Thor was to the entire Universe. Even later on like you posted, he warns the Infinity Watch not to hold back as he realizes how dangerous Thor is to everyone's existence in such a state.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes, it really is.

here we see Surfer taking a few shot from Insane Thor without so much as a scratch..

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsBetaRayBillSilverSurfer02.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsBetaRayBillSilverSurfer04.jpg

like i've pointed out before Thor is not the only marvel heroes who have very impressive recovery feat.. I have given ex. of how Surfer in near death and drained of all his PC reserves manage to recover quickly @ full power while being pummeled by Wonderman.. Bare that in mind, Surfer should have had plenty of time to recover to full during Bill/Thor exchange + the interval where Bill explained Thors situation.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsBetaRayBillSilverSurfer05.jpg

specially since you've mentioned above from the scans you provided, "Surfer was being pummeled by Thor without so much as a scratch."

In that scan Surfer should have been 100%

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer08.jpg

It literaly is a one shot...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If it helps you sleep better at night, think of them as concentrated bursts that were capable of wiping out systems. I don't care.

Fine, I'll take it as literally. In that one instance, Silver Surfer was able to one shot kill Thor. That's one scene contradicted by like a dozen other times when Thor tanks Silver Surfer's attacks unharmed completely.

Apparently he was not holding back there. He realized how much of a danger Thor was to the entire Universe. Even later on like you posted, he warns the Infinity Watch not to hold back as he realizes how dangerous Thor is to everyone's existence in such a state.

That is my point!! That showing contradicted all of Surfer's entirety in comics because there has never been any appearances of him going all even against someone who killed his lover, family or friends.. And he supposed to do that on a friend in need of help. Doesn't make any sense, does it?

Could that likelihood be because of the PG?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're disputing that Thor recovered against Bill's four shots in that fight, despite your painful awareness that Thor has recovered from far worse.

Please. Thor was toppled by BRB briefly. It has happened before, and by less. That doesn't render it illogical. And Thor has taken far worse than that before. So it doesn't render him weathering Warlock's/Surfer's attacks illogical either. A fresh Thor was utterly ineffective against Mangog in their previous match during Tears of the Gods and then gave him a righteous beatdown AFTER being mercilessly wrecked. You're acting like a character stepping his game up hasn't ever happened before and should thus justify projecting some unspoken amp onto said character. The gratuitous campaigning here is self-evident.

Did you consider Thor @ bloodlust when he fought Mangog @ first round? I think not.. His able to pull off this kind of showing because he keeps so much in reserve.. So stepping up his game mean tapping more power into that reserve however one cannot do this when he keeps non in reserve, someone in a bloodlust for example..

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Illnesses that have similar symptoms do not necessitate projecting the same causes and effects an illness may have. Do you know how many times Thor has drawn strength from his "courage" or his "indomitable spirit?" Does that suggest his "courage" amped him?

You're projecting what you wish happened despite 20+ comics not stating as such.

Give me a BREAK. You're taking me to task for not seeing how obvious it was for Thor to be amped, (because he recovered almost instantly from four Stormbreaker shots) and you're suggesting that Silver Surfer should have easily recovered from several Mjolnir shots almost instantly because Surfer's done so before in the past? What do you think my referencing Thor's comebacks from beatdowns was all about?! Thor's done the same and from worse! That isn't evidence of an amp! You obviously recognize this because normal Surfer according to you also recovers near instantly from assaults... even near-death ones!!! How about I start projecting some sort of amp onto all those Surfer feats and see how you like dealing with such an inane crusade of misinformation?

You couldn't rely on those when in the moment of bloodlust.. because they dont exist, what it basically is. is psycho bubble to push yourself harder... It is also easier to do when you've leave some reserve (vigor)..

Well its obvious we can never get on terms with this, so ill just leave it at that and agree to dis - agree...

Originally posted by Ambient
What im disputing is the fact that Thor was affected by the attack from BRB alone and was even momentarily taken out by it.. It is not his recovery but rather the durability to take injury.. Then on the latter issues when facing both Warlock and Surfer. Thor was basically shrugging of combined attack from both of this combatants - course take into account this combatants higher showing of energy projections not just low - mid. - A likely concl. from me was that Thor was getting stronger which should not be the case since this version should be his max, it being without reserve..

Did you consider Thor @ bloodlust when he fought Mangog @ first round? I think not.. His able to pull off this kind of showing because he keeps so much in reserve.. So stepping up his game mean tapping more power into that reserve however one cannot do this when he keeps non in reserve, someone in a bloodlust for example..

No kidding. Which is why Thor defeating Surfer (who he cheapshotted several times earlier) and defeating Warlock (whose most potent attack was impotent) suffered the wrath of a bloodlusted Thor who isn't sparing anything or softening his touch. Hence, it actually makes sense when you think about it.

Originally posted by Ambient
A symptoms is an effect of an illness. Only the causes differs like say MLS or ALS but what it is, is similar an illness of the brain and spinal cord.. Could relate that to the Insanity and WM like i've previously mentioned..

You couldn't rely on those when in the moment of bloodlust.. because they dont exist, what it basically is. is psycho bubble to push yourself harder... It is also easier to do when you've leave some reserve (vigor)..

Well its obvious we can never get on terms with this, so ill just leave it at that and agree to dis - agree...

This makes no sense.

Clearly.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You can have a cough from both a cold and lung cancer.. The former doesn't turn your lungs black. Trying to conflate the two such that they are literally the same and have no distinction runs directly counter to Odin's proclamation that it wasn't Warriors Madness.

Clearly.

And if you must know one cannot diagnose with just a one symptoms which is the only similarities tween the example you mentioned while the one being debated have few and was even being related to the other condition from one who have quite a passing familiarity of it..

But hey we are going really off topic here, so im just going to leave as is..

And Void wins..

Originally posted by Ambient
See there are diff. classif. types of disorder/illness and with it diff. approach in diagnosis, specially in regards to mental/psychological types (most certainly is Thors cond.); mostly the symptoms is what determines the prognosis of a type of a psychological disorder however this is reverse with other classif/types of illness, ie. Lung Cancer ... ah heck, this feels like going back to school again.. Expl. all of it will take a few pages.. l0l

And if you must know one cannot diagnose with just a one symptoms which is the only similarities tween the example you mentioned while the one being debated have few and was even being related to the other condition from one who have quite a passing familiarity of it..

But hey we are going really off topic here, so im just going to leave as is..

And Void wins..

bumpage

bump

Thought I replied to Ambient. Meh.

Surfer has methods to have an easy win but he doesn't use them.

^Like what?

Originally posted by Ambient
Right...

like i've pointed out before Thor is not the only marvel heroes who have very impressive recovery feat.. I have given ex. of how Surfer in near death and drained of all his PC reserves manage to recover quickly @ full power while being pummeled by Wonderman.. Bare that in mind, Surfer should have had plenty of time to recover to full during Bill/Thor exchange + the interval where Bill explained Thors situation.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsBetaRayBillSilverSurfer05.jpg

specially since you've mentioned above from the scans you provided, "Surfer was being pummeled by Thor without so much as a scratch."

In that scan Surfer should have been 100%

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer08.jpg

It literaly is a one shot...

I don't know where I was going with this but right now I could care less whether or not Surfer was 100%. It just makes Thor's feat that more impressive.

If you think he was one shotted, that's cool. I don't care. Surfer got his ass handed to him by Thor and no amount of b*tching will change that. And neither will making up off panel arbitrary power ups.

Originally posted by Ambient
That make 2 of us.. The "I don't care part." and thanks, didn't know you care.. lol

That is my point!! That showing contradicted all of Surfer's entirety in comics because there has never been any appearances of him going all even against someone who killed his lover, family or friends.. And he supposed to do that on a friend in need of help. Doesn't make any sense, does it?

Could that likelihood be because of the PG?

Eh? You've never seen Surfer cut loose?

I still can't believe you tried to claim that Surfer wasn't really going all out because he wasn't creating black holes with his blasts. That was pretty lulzy.

I'm sure the Power Gem was factored into his decision but Thor was the major danger which was only enhanced by the possession of the Power Gem. Fueled by his rage and the Gem he was nigh unstoppable.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^Like what?

I don't know where I was going with this but right now I could care less whether or not Surfer was 100%. It just makes Thor's feat that more impressive.

If you think he was one shotted, that's cool. I don't care. Surfer got his ass handed to him by Thor and no amount of b*tching will change that. And neither will making up off panel arbitrary power ups.

Eh? You've never seen Surfer cut loose?

I still can't believe you tried to claim that Surfer wasn't really going all out because he wasn't creating black holes with his blasts. That was pretty lulzy.

I'm sure the Power Gem was factored into his decision but Thor was the major danger which was only enhanced by the possession of the Power Gem. Fueled by his rage and the Gem he was nigh unstoppable.

Like I said he won't due this due to CIS though.