My issue with Marvel

After reading Siege, I had to sit down and wonder why I felt so horrible afterwards. Sure, I love the Sentry and hate how he's been dealt with, but it was something more. It finally hit me a few minutes ago. Its Thor. Now, I like Thor, but I guess i've always thought of him as a cop out for Marvel.

When I was younger, I always liked Marvel comics more than DC. I dont know why. I just always felt that DC had to much going on all the time maybe or something else. Anyways, I chose Marvel in my youth as i'm sure most people choose one or the other as their favorite.

DC always had their Superman and I always felt that nobody in Marvel lived up to that. Thor was the closest, but who is Thor? Thor isnt an original idea. He's plagerism from Norse mythology. I can just see how the people at Marvel came up with Thor. They all sat at a table and figured they needed a powerhouse to compensate for Superman in some kind of way and Thor was the best they could come up with. "Ok, what kind of hero can we make up thats really powerful?". "Why bother thinking about it Stan, lets just grab Thor out of the norse mythology and use him?". "That works. Lets break for lunch".

See what I mean? The Hulk wouldnt have worked because he's not versatile enough and after all, he was just a rehash of Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde anyways. Thor was a norse god. They could do whatever they wanted with him. Make him do whatever the imagination came up with. Its lame. I always wondered how the copyright deal went down with him too. Hasent DC and Image used their own Thor along the way at some point? It could have been a lot better.

At least with Sentry, Marvel had their answer, but the fans rejected him for whatever reason. None of the other Superman types would have worked either. Gladiator was (and still is) viewed as some type of villian most of the time. Hyperion wouldnt work because he lived on an alternate world. Neither hung around earth hardly at all. At least Sentry was here and interacting.

I dont know. Maybe its because i'm older than most everybody here. Maybe the younger people dont even equate Thor with norse mythology. Whatever it is, I think Marvel messed up. They had an answer for DC and botched it,,,,as usual. Maybe they dont care. Maybe they figure if people want that kind of hero, they can buy a Superman comic. Anyways, I think they lost out. As it is, they lost me.

Rant over.

Originally posted by tkitna
After reading Siege, I had to sit down and wonder why I felt so horrible afterwards. Sure, I love the Sentry and hate how he's been dealt with, but it was something more. It finally hit me a few minutes ago. Its Thor. Now, I like Thor, but I guess i've always thought of him as a cop out for Marvel.

When I was younger, I always liked Marvel comics more than DC. I dont know why. I just always felt that DC had to much going on all the time maybe or something else. Anyways, I chose Marvel in my youth as i'm sure most people choose one or the other as their favorite.

DC always had their Superman and I always felt that nobody in Marvel lived up to that. Thor was the closest, but who is Thor? Thor isnt an original idea. He's plagerism from Norse mythology. I can just see how the people at Marvel came up with Thor. They all sat at a table and figured they needed a powerhouse to compensate for Superman in some kind of way and Thor was the best they could come up with. "Ok, what kind of hero can we make up thats really powerful?". "Why bother thinking about it Stan, lets just grab Thor out of the norse mythology and use him?". "That works. Lets break for lunch".

See what I mean? The Hulk wouldnt have worked because he's not versatile enough and after all, he was just a rehash of Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde anyways. Thor was a norse god. They could do whatever they wanted with him. Make him do whatever the imagination came up with. Its lame. I always wondered how the copyright deal went down with him too. Hasent DC and Image used their own Thor along the way at some point? It could have been a lot better.

At least with Sentry, Marvel had their answer, but the fans rejected him for whatever reason. None of the other Superman types would have worked either. Gladiator was (and still is) viewed as some type of villian most of the time. Hyperion wouldnt work because he lived on an alternate world. Neither hung around earth hardly at all. At least Sentry was here and interacting.

I dont know. Maybe its because i'm older than most everybody here. Maybe the younger people dont even equate Thor with norse mythology. Whatever it is, I think Marvel messed up. They had an answer for DC and botched it,,,,as usual. Maybe they dont care. Maybe they figure if people want that kind of hero, they can buy a Superman comic. Anyways, I think they lost out. As it is, they lost me.

Rant over.

I think Siege had so much potential unlike what it turned out to be

I don't know, I have never been a great fan of how DC lowballs mythology to make Superman a big deal -Morrison for you-.

Comics descend from myths more or less, and things like Hercules being the prototype of the hero are things I don't mind being told simply because its an honest stance about how heroics are conceived.

Don't get me wrong I love Supes, I just think that a guy with his status would exactly what Thor is: A god. Not a hero.

I loved Sentry's first mini, his second was ok and then after that the character drastically went downhill in my eyes.

Originally posted by Bentley
Don't get me wrong I love Supes, I just think that a guy with his status would exactly what Thor is: A god. Not a hero.

I understand where your coming from. Honestly I do, but at least with Superman, theres some guidleines. We all know he's an alien who for the better part, has a setlist of powers. Sure they get tweaked all the time, but its basically the same. With Thor, the doors always open. If they wrote Thor to snort fire out of his nose to win a battle in some book, who would ever argue. The skys the limit.

You'll have to excuse me for being bitter. I'm not picking on Thor or trying to belittle the character. I guess i'm more upset that Marvel has been putting out crap storys and getting away with it. Siege was the last straw. It just wasnt sensible. Helicarrier and lightning? Really? How can Bendis be allowed to continue? Nobody gets their moneys worth anymore, but they continue to do it because people continue to buy it, only to wish they hadent afterwards.

Peace

Originally posted by Bentley
I don't know, I have never been a great fan of how DC lowballs mythology to make Superman a big deal -Morrison for you-.

Thank YOU! I'm glad someone else besides me sees that....

As for Marvel....well, I shouldn't even be here (seen as I'm view as a villain for not liking them)...I will just say this..

Marvel loses dedicated fans but gains bandwagon fans that just came back from the theaters after watching a recent Marvel movie.

The thing that annoyed me about Secret Invasion was that it had an unecessary death at the end. What made up for it was the interesting and unexpected directions that Marvel took.

The thing that annoyed me about Siege was that it didn't have a major and unexpected death at the end. Sentry was the villain from as far back as at least issue #2 so his death was expected. It didn't have the unexpected ending that Secret Invasion had.

I love Ares but the peak of the series was the death of Ares. I love that Cap is the new Nick Fury and I love the concept, it makes perfect sense that we get to finally see the flipside to Civil War. However it was far too predictable. For all their faults, Disassembled, H.o.M, Civil War and Secret Invasion at least took the MU in a completely different direction each time. Siege seemed to more or less shoe-horn in somewhat of a reset button with a few exceptions.

The thing that pisses me the most about Marvel - there's no character development. Ever. It feels like one of those saturday cartoons where no matter what happens, by the end of the episode everything goes back to "normal". Avengers are back together, all the bad things are put behind them. Civil War, registration act, World War Hulk, invasion etc one can betray or kill his best friend and everything will be back the way it used to be and forgotten in just few months. Why kill off all the characters if you know for a fact they'll be back in a year max? One huge character development for Spider-man was getting married they even got rid of that. A smaller example - Wolverine and Spider-man have been friends now for like months and yet every time they meet in a new crossover its back to "damn I hate that guy" kinda thing simply because that's what people are used to. The comics are written so anyone could pick it up at any time and feel like he's reading the story from the beginning. I assure you, 50 years from now if you're still alive you'll pick a marvel book - pretty much everything will be the same.

Dude, shut up. The golden fairy is dead, that's all that matters.

Nooo, another WD on KMC.

facepalm

Also Sentry sucked from day one.

Siege was an PIS crap shoot.

I stopped comics all together. Only picking up a few comics here and there. I DL them more now then ever before because theres nothing intresting anymore. Its all about how much can DC and Marvel make from their BS.

Originally posted by SamZED
The thing that pisses me the most about Marvel - there's no character development. Ever. It feels like one of those saturday cartoons where no matter what happens, by the end of the episode everything goes back to "normal". Avengers are back together, all the bad things are put behind them. Civil War, registration act, World War Hulk, invasion etc one can betray or kill his best friend and everything will be back the way it used to be and forgotten in just few months. Why kill off all the characters if you know for a fact they'll be back in a year max? One huge character development for Spider-man was getting married they even got rid of that. A smaller example - Wolverine and Spider-man have been friends now for like months and yet every time they meet in a new crossover its back to "damn I hate that guy" kinda thing simply because that's what people are used to. The comics are written so anyone could pick it up at any time and feel like he's reading the story from the beginning. I assure you, 50 years from now if you're still alive you'll pick a marvel book - pretty much everything will be the same.

yea thats my biggest problem . i still read but it annoys me greatly

Originally posted by tkitna
After reading Siege, I had to sit down and wonder why I felt so horrible afterwards. Sure, I love the Sentry and hate how he's been dealt with, but it was something more. It finally hit me a few minutes ago. Its Thor. Now, I like Thor, but I guess i've always thought of him as a cop out for Marvel.

When I was younger, I always liked Marvel comics more than DC. I dont know why. I just always felt that DC had to much going on all the time maybe or something else. Anyways, I chose Marvel in my youth as i'm sure most people choose one or the other as their favorite.

DC always had their Superman and I always felt that nobody in Marvel lived up to that. Thor was the closest, but who is Thor? Thor isnt an original idea. He's plagerism from Norse mythology. I can just see how the people at Marvel came up with Thor. They all sat at a table and figured they needed a powerhouse to compensate for Superman in some kind of way and Thor was the best they could come up with. "Ok, what kind of hero can we make up thats really powerful?". "Why bother thinking about it Stan, lets just grab Thor out of the norse mythology and use him?". "That works. Lets break for lunch".

See what I mean? The Hulk wouldnt have worked because he's not versatile enough and after all, he was just a rehash of Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde anyways. Thor was a norse god. They could do whatever they wanted with him. Make him do whatever the imagination came up with. Its lame. I always wondered how the copyright deal went down with him too. Hasent DC and Image used their own Thor along the way at some point? It could have been a lot better.

At least with Sentry, Marvel had their answer, but the fans rejected him for whatever reason. None of the other Superman types would have worked either. Gladiator was (and still is) viewed as some type of villian most of the time. Hyperion wouldnt work because he lived on an alternate world. Neither hung around earth hardly at all. At least Sentry was here and interacting.

I dont know. Maybe its because i'm older than most everybody here. Maybe the younger people dont even equate Thor with norse mythology. Whatever it is, I think Marvel messed up. They had an answer for DC and botched it,,,,as usual. Maybe they dont care. Maybe they figure if people want that kind of hero, they can buy a Superman comic. Anyways, I think they lost out. As it is, they lost me.

Rant over.

Oh and....

We told you Sentry was crap but you fell in love with him.

Tkitna and WD make good points.

I've never favored Marvel or DC. I liked both for different reasons since I was a kid.

I always liked DC for Batman, Superman, Captain Marvel, Green Lantern and Flash. Bats could also work in the MU.

I always liked Marvel for Hulk (That's right WD! biscuits), Captain America, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Namor and Thor. Thor could also work in the DCU.

Basically, I always thought as DC liked for characters with higher power sets and Marvel for characters more towards mid-tier power sets.

Siege existed purely to transition Marvel U into the Heroic Age. That was the mission statement. Taken on its own the ending was disappointment, but didn't it get you excited for Heroic Age? Because that was the goal, to set up the Heroic Age. At the end of the day Siege was a stepping stone not an end game. Does it suck that it couldn't stand on its own merits? Maybe... but I don't think it was ever intended to.

Tkina is right. Thor is the the best Marvel came up with to compensate for DC's Golden boy. Sentry sucked, no one liked him. I hated him. The only time I started to get interested is when Void started coming into the picture. Not because he was trying to be Marvel's Superman. It was because he now had an interesting character. Unfortunately, a character like Sentry can't live too long. He is a villain and like all uncontrolled villains, they must either die or go away for a while.

However, Thor doesn't have to. He is a hero that has a nice mythology(from Norse Myth) which can be used to fuel his story and he is pretty unique despite Marvel using everything from Norse Myth. I have always been interesting in Thor and probably always will be.

Marvel has many Superman copies like Gladiator, Sentry, Hyperion, and many more, but none of them will work. Marvel now has that Marvel Man, or something like that (recently got him) and I bet he will fail again. Marvel has to make their own unique hero and it mostly likely that they have on already. Thor

i give it a D- and a pimp slap with a rolled comic to the writer finishing it off with a crotch kick to fat joe...

Thor was only intended to be Superman for Marvel in terms of being a Top Tier Powerhouse. The characters and personality are next to nothing alike. Neither are the power sets.

I just find it crazy how some people who really despise DC or Superman liked the concept of Sentry in the first place. I like both companies, and Marvel, frankly, works better without a single Superman archetype character. Sentry is essentially the epitome of a Gary Stu character and one fueled by PIS. He evolved from that to literally become plot device himself.

My issue is that theres way too much PIS in comics these days. And the characters that I do like get jobbed a lot or are written wrong.

Supes is full of PIS and Thor gets jobbed or is not written properly.

Marvel should focus hard on Thor. Make him at his proper power level and write good stories etc..

Imo, Superman is usually in a nice level where it doesn't change. Sure he has PIS since he basically in almost every huge arc, but he still written like he always is. Thor, Sentry and many other character don't. Marvel writers can't keep their level consistent because they want to use those characters for a specific plot no matter how badly it damages that character. Sentry gets a lot of this.