(Pokemon)Lugia vs kyogre

Started by isharacramer2 pages
Originally posted by lordxalba
Not ok ,if you think Lugia wins then prove it.

I don't think Lugia wins

Lugia wouldn't create that storm in this situation, its not really effective to start against a pokemon like Kyogre. Its barrier is able to take strong hits like that Thunder and then launch its own on Kyogre.

A barrier that has stopped who on Kyogre's level?

3 Pokemon combined, and one with a Super Effective damage multiplier.

They're still not on Kyogre's level though.

Let's start by proving that. Even if you don't use stats, those birds are plenty strong enough to take on Kyogre.

So then, I guess they could take on Mewtwo as well? Too bad Kyogre Drizzle Thunders them all though, or at least two of them, while Ice Beaming Zapdos.

Yeah, Kyogre isn't on MewTwo's level. You base this on stats, which are a gameplay mechanic.

And manipulating this same gameplay mechanic puts them far above MewTwo's power level, as well as Kyogre's.

Yes he is. At least, Kyogre created the seas and has complete control of water. That's far beyond creating a 40-day storm and what not. And Mewtwo created weather strong enough to destroy the planet. Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres have not a single feat that put them above either of those.

Hell, the water from the heavy downpour that Kyogre causes alone would probably be enough to hurt Moltres, while Kyogre one-shots the other two with his vastly superior special attack.

You yourself even said in the Poke League thread that the weather trio (which Kyogre is a part of) beats the bird trio. Now it's the other way around? 🙄

I said that? 😬 Rayquaza has the most feats of the Weather Trio, I don't know why I would have said that. Kyogre has type over Moltres, and that's it.

Moltres brings early spring to winter areas if it flies around them. Just by the scattering embers from it's wings. Moltres' fire is pretty hot. Rain isn't going to harm it. He controls fire, and dips in magma/lava to heal.

Zapdos controls electricity and either appears with a giant storm or an enormous lightning bolt. Or when a storm cloud splits in two. He can cause storms by releasing electricity flapping his wings. Platinum dex also says it freely controls lightning bolts.

Articuno can freeze water vapor which for some reason I think is impressive. It makes blizzards doing this, and I guess can be done involuntarily. Controls ice too.

As for Kyogre, creating the seas means he made it rain a lot. But as shown by the games it is not enough to damage anything as humans can walk about in it. MewTwo doesn't have a lot in the way of durability feats. He's a strong damage dealer and telekinetic.

Kyogre will have difficulties hitting Lugia, he is limited to the water. He may not even be able to attack without sticking his head out of the water to see.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I said that? 😬

Yep.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
My honest opinons:

Golems beat Weather (barely)
Beasts beat Birds (also tough)
Beasts beat Golems
Birds beat Golems
Weather beats Birds
Beasts beat Weather
Mew Trio stomps all. Especially with Deoxys as a special summon.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Moltres brings early spring to winter areas if it flies around them. Just by the scattering embers from it's wings. Moltres' fire is pretty hot. Rain isn't going to harm it. He controls fire, and dips in magma/lava to heal.

Kyogre can simply expand the sea by covering the land/magma/lava with torrential rains and towering tidal waves. Moltres won't have anything to dip in after that.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Zapdos controls electricity and either appears with a giant storm or an enormous lightning bolt. Or when a storm cloud splits in two. He can cause storms by releasing electricity flapping his wings.

Cool. Kyogre can create clouds that cover the entire sky and bring about torrential downpours. Admittedly though, he might have a little trouble with Zapdos due to Zap being slightly faster, but he can likely still take him with Ice Beam, and Articuno with a no-miss Thunder.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
As for Kyogre, creating the seas means he made it rain a lot. But as shown by the games it is not enough to damage anything as humans can walk about in it.

Everyone in the games took shelter because of how dangerous Kyogre's torrential downpours became when he battled with Groudon. 😬

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
MewTwo doesn't have a lot in the way of durability feats. He's a strong damage dealer and telekinetic.

And can destroy the planet. More than enough to beat the bird trio.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Kyogre will have difficulties hitting Lugia, he is limited to the water.

Doesn't matter. He can create torrential downpours/expand the sea anywhere he goes.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
He may not even be able to attack without sticking his head out of the water to see.

You saying Kyogre can't even see his opponents while underwater? Now you're just downplaying.

Kyogre doesn't have to stick his head out of the water to do an attack like Thunder. Ice Beam maybe, but not Thunder.

Lugia fights underwater too some if I recall right. If they fight there, Kyogre wins even easier.
If Lugia stays in the sky and just relies on projectiles like Aeroblast, Kyogre can dodge them easily by diving deep underwater from the torrential downpours it creates.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yep.

K, but there is more in the weather trio than Kyogre. Namely Rayquaza.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Kyogre can simply expand the sea by covering the land/magma/lava with torrential rains and towering tidal waves. Moltres won't have anything to dip in after that.

His rain has shown no ability to cool magma. It shows nothing to set it apart from normal rain apart from being a heavier rain. And Team Aqua wanted to cool a volcano to let it fill with rainwater.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Cool. Kyogre can create clouds that cover the entire sky and bring about torrential downpours. Admittedly though, he might have a little trouble with Zapdos due to Zap being slightly faster, but he can likely still take him with Ice Beam, and Articuno with a no-miss Thunder.

The entire sky takes a while. In Sapphire his rainclouds cover only an area around Sootopolis city, but I believe it was said it would grow if it had been given enough time.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Everyone in the games took shelter because of how dangerous Kyogre's torrential downpours became when he battled with Groudon. 😬

Except for Steven, the player character and multiple other people.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
And can destroy the planet. More than enough to beat the bird trio.

Unless, you know, they hit him. Not a doubt in my mind that he would easily defeat them, but not that he would get back up when they hit him.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Doesn't matter. He can create torrential downpours/expand the sea anywhere he goes.

K. The point of me posting about the birds was not to say they'd all lose to Kyogre one on one, but to show the damage Lugia's barriers can actually take, and that all three at once would probably beat Kyogre.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
You saying Kyogre can't even see his opponents while underwater? Now you're just downplaying.

Kyogre doesn't have to stick his head out of the water to do an attack like Thunder. Ice Beam maybe, but not Thunder.

Lugia fights underwater too some if I recall right. If they fight there, Kyogre wins even easier.
If Lugia stays in the sky and just relies on projectiles like Aeroblast, Kyogre can dodge them easily by diving deep underwater from the torrential downpours it creates.

1. When they're flying hundreds of feet in the air? Yeah.

2. Really? So why do his thunder attacks have magical non-miss properties?

3. He can, but he can also fly. And so far we haven't seen him do much fighting under water. But those giant whirlpool/water spouts of his are pretty strong. As are his tackles.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Unless, you know, they hit him. Not a doubt in my mind that he would easily defeat them, but not that he would get back up when they hit him.

Fair 'nuff then.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
K. The point of me posting about the birds was not to say they'd all lose to Kyogre one on one, but to show the damage Lugia's barriers can actually take, and that all three at once would probably beat Kyogre.

The only one of the three that actually have super-effective attacks against Kyogre though is Zapdos, and is the only one that is faster than Ky, even if only slightly. A Surf or Water Spout will take down Moltres and a quick Thunder deals with Articuno. And with Kyogre's uber special defense, it can take plenty of Zapdos's electric attacks, enough to eventually take Zap out with Ice Beam.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. When they're flying hundreds of feet in the air? Yeah.

2. Really? So why do his thunder attacks have magical non-miss properties?

3. He can, but he can also fly. And so far we haven't seen him do much fighting under water. But those giant whirlpool/water spouts of his are pretty strong. As are his tackles.


1. Okay. You got me there, but like I said, Kyogre easily dodges their projectile attacks by diving underwater, and if Lugia wants to get him, he'll probably have to follow him underwater, where Kyogre has the most advantage. Otherwise, it'll be an endless stall battle.

2. Because that's the way it works in the games with Kyogre's Drizzle trait/ability. Thunder's accuracy becomes increased to 100% instead of staying at 70 like with Rain Dance. To deny this would be downplaying him.

3. True.

I'm leaning more towards Ky now, but the fanboi in me just keeps saying Lugia.

Thunder isn't made into a never-miss move by being put up to 100% in this KMC world. Its got the same chances of hitting as every other 100% move that gets argued here. Lugia's advantage of flight and swim is a big one for this fight combined with his barrier that can take alot of damage and his own Thunder, being underwater wouldn't change the outcome either.

Yes it would, and there's hardly any doubt in my mind that Lugia's barrier would break when hit by Kyogre's Sheer Cold attack.

Flamethrower also has 100% but no one says that its always going to land its mark.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
1. Okay. You got me there, but like I said, Kyogre easily dodges their projectile attacks by diving underwater, and if Lugia wants to get him, he'll probably have to follow him underwater, where Kyogre has the most advantage. Otherwise, it'll be an endless stall battle.

True. However, I still think Lugia's barriers can take several attacks from Kyogre. But he might not even be able to use them under water.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
2. Because that's the way it works in the games with Kyogre's Drizzle trait/ability. Thunder's accuracy becomes increased to 100% instead of staying at 70 like with Rain Dance. To deny this would be downplaying him.

Dammit.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
3. True.

Quite.

So, Kyogre probably wins. But it's because Lugia has to go underwater to fight Kyogre because Kyogre cannot fly. Lugia is not the best fighter under water from what we've seen. Chances are, Kyogre wins there.

But I'm not happy about it.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Flamethrower also has 100% but no one says that its always going to land its mark.

Point taken.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
True. However, I still think Lugia's barriers can take several attacks from Kyogre. But he might not even be able to use them under water.

Depends I guess. Doubt the barrier can take Kyogre's Sheer Cold though as mentioned before.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Quite.

So, Kyogre probably wins. But it's because Lugia has to go underwater to fight Kyogre because Kyogre cannot fly. Lugia is not the best fighter under water from what we've seen. Chances are, Kyogre wins there.


Being underwater will also give Kyogre a chance to use Body Slam (which may paralyze Lugia since Kyogre weighs considerably more), Scary Face, Double Edge, and what not against it, so yeah. 😬

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
But I'm not happy about it.

Eh, understandable. I'm no big fan or anything of Kyogre myself to be honest. 😛

Kyogre's the lesser of two evils though biscuits