Darth Caedus: Questions about Him

What was his saber style?

What was his combat style? Ie direct, stealth, manipulation etc.

How skilled was his tactical acumen? (Large scale tactics - fleet vs fleet, armies vs armies, commandership/generalship)

How skilled was his tactical strategy? (Person vs person intelligencem duels, assassinations, etc.)

How fast was he?

How strong/skilled was he in direct force powers? (Force lightening, tk, force buffing himself with speed, reflexes, etc and all other exotic powers). Also where does he rank in top 5 for top 5 most powerful force users?

Ie
1. De sidious
2.???
3. Caedus

How strong was he with indirect force powers? (Battle meditation, seeing future, precognition, cloaking himself, illusions) and how does he rank compared to the top others?
1
2
3
Etc

What known force powers did he have? (Ie invisibility, illusions, mind control, tk, force gip, drain, lightening, etc)

How skilled/powerful was he in regards to melee/saber to saber combat? Also wher does he rank among the top saber users?

Ie
1.luke
2.yoda
3.???
Etc etc

How high was his damage soak, endurance/stamina? (Ie could out last someone, take injury, fight through pain)

How resilliant was he to incoming offensive force powers? (Ie how resistant to force lightening, force tk, illusions, mind control, etc)

How does he rank compared to others?
1
2
3
4
Etc

o.O I feel like I should be doing and Algebra problem with this topic.

BW
What was his saber style?

dunno

BW
What was his combat style? Ie direct, stealth, manipulation etc.

A mix of both. He wasn't Palpatine/Lumiya-class stealthy, but he tried to keep his hands relatively clean until push came to shove.

BW
How skilled was his tactical acumen? (Large scale tactics - fleet vs fleet, armies vs armies, commandership/generalship)

He was no Thrawn or Zaarin or Ackbar, but due to battle meditation and moderate intellect, he managed all right. It was just in the presence of a formidable foe that he lost his composure. If 10 is Thrawn, Caedus was about a 5, IMHO.

BW
How skilled was his tactical strategy? (Person vs person intelligencem duels, assassinations, etc.)

He was a superior political strategist than a military tactician; he successfully manipulated many of the main characters and hid his involvement in Mara Jade's death from Luke and Ben for a while, not to mention he pulled the rug out from under Cal Omas and Gilad Pellaeon. If Palpatine was a 10 in terms of political strategy, Caedus was about a 7.

BW
How fast was he?

Fast enough to block a sneak attack by an outrageously pissed off Luke Skywalker.

BW
How strong/skilled was he in direct force powers? (Force lightening, tk, force buffing himself with speed, reflexes, etc and all other exotic powers). Also where does he rank in top 5 for top 5 most powerful force users?

Ie
1. De sidious
2.???
3. Caedus

The recent Fate of the Jedi books is littered with generic accolades for him, along the lines of "powerful" to "extremely powerful." He believed, early in Legacy of the Force, that he was second only to Luke as a Jedi. I'd say, as a Jedi, he was top tier. As a Sith, he was more than a match for Kyle Katarn and a group of Jedi Knights and padawans, though I wouldn't say by a lot. The jacket to Invincible says his Force powers were greater than Darth Vader's.

So, honestly? I'd say before his death he probably was second only to Luke in terms of straight up power.

BW
How strong was he with indirect force powers? (Battle meditation, seeing future, precognition, cloaking himself, illusions) and how does he rank compared to the top others?
1
2
3
Etc

I'd say he's pretty decent here. In the Dark Nest crisis, he demonstrated enough skill to manipulate Luke with illusions (though this shifted to Luke's advantage in Legacy of the Force, suggesting that a person's state of mind is important to resisting illusions). They made a big deal about his battle meditation and ability to cloak himself. In terms of esoteric/indirect Force powers, he's on par with Luke in some ways and better than him in others.

BW
What known force powers did he have? (Ie invisibility, illusions, mind control, tk, force gip, drain, lightening, etc)

All the above?

BW
How skilled/powerful was he in regards to melee/saber to saber combat? Also wher does he rank among the top saber users?

Ie
1.luke
2.yoda
3.???
Etc etc

In Fury, he defeated Kyle Katarn (the new Jedi Order's battle instructor) and Katarn's group of Knights and padawans, he held his own against an outrageously pissed off Luke Skywalker, and despite disadvantages, dominated his fight with Jaina.

Again, I'd say he's top tier in the new Jedi Order era.

BW
How high was his damage soak, endurance/stamina? (Ie could out last someone, take injury, fight through pain)

He gets top marks here; Caedus probably has the highest pain threshold in the new Jedi Order era and one of the highest in the mythos.

BW
How resilliant was he to incoming offensive force powers? (Ie how resistant to force lightening, force tk, illusions, mind control, etc)

Again, it depended on his state of mind. He went from calm and calculating, able to manipulate Luke Skywalker in the Dark Nest Trilogy to being deranged, homicidal, and paranoid, and subsequently lost any sort of advantage he possessed.

BW
How does he rank compared to others?
1
2
3
4
Etc

He was easily top five of his era; personally, I'd put him in the top three, his only other rival being Kyp Durron. I think he's better than Kyle, and beneath Luke.

I pretty much agree with Gideon's views, pretty solid man.

To answer the first question about saber style, I believe he was adept in several forms. He was already at the master lightsaber duelist level by the end of the New Jedi Order series (doesn't mean you can't surpass a master level and continue to improve). He could counter Luke, Kyle, Mara Jade, and anybody else who went against him, so he had a solid defense style, but he could also push on the offensive. I would think the only couple of styles he didn't have would be the style that Sidious, Yoda, and Luke Skywalker all exhibited:

Form IV: Ataru, the crazy, agile, acrobatic style where you come at the opponent from all angles.

Form VII: Mace Windu's form: Vaapad: Caedus didn't have this one either, if I recall. (Note, neither Yoda or Palpatine have exhibited Vaapad. I am not sure if Luke ever has, though I wouldn't be surprised if he could easily learn it, as he did Shatterpoint, another skill Mace Windu had).

That was an amazing post, you answered near everything I was seeking.

So basically, caedus was second only to luke in some areas, and unsurpassed in other areas by none? So if overall mythos wise if an extremely pissed off luke is ranked #1, then caedus is #2?

Originally posted by Board Walker
What was his saber style?

I don't think it was any of the classical forms.

What was his combat style? Ie direct, stealth, manipulation etc.

A mix.

How skilled was his tactical acumen? (Large scale tactics - fleet vs fleet, armies vs armies, commandership/generalship)

He seemed to be pretty competent at that, although he's no Thrawn.

How skilled was his tactical strategy? (Person vs person intelligencem duels, assassinations, etc.)

Again, he's pretty competent.

How fast was he?

Pretty fast actually. He's shown to be able to maneuver very well. He was able to avoid sniper attacks from Jaina by using a mando as a human shield, and he also kept up with LOTF Luke, moving faster than the eye could see.

How strong/skilled was he in direct force powers? (Force lightening, tk, force buffing himself with speed, reflexes, etc and all other exotic powers). Also where does he rank in top 5 for top 5 most powerful force users?

Ie
1. De sidious
2.???
3. Caedus

He was said to be more powerful in the Force than Darth Vader. I'm not sure if he's in the top 5 of all time; definitely for his era.

How strong was he with indirect force powers? (Battle meditation, seeing future, precognition, cloaking himself, illusions) and how does he rank compared to the top others?
1
2
3
Etc

He knew battle meditation, had both short term and some long term precog/seeing future and his illusions sometimes even fooled Luke.

What known force powers did he have? (Ie invisibility, illusions, mind control, tk, force gip, drain, lightening, etc)

TK/passive use/etc.
Lightning
He could deflect blaster bolts with his hands
battle meditation
illusions
a bunch of Force skills he learned from different Force societies

How skilled/powerful was he in regards to melee/saber to saber combat? Also wher does he rank among the top saber users?

Ie
1.luke
2.yoda
3.???
Etc etc

He stood up to LOTF Luke in a saber fight, so he's pretty skilled. He also knew some martial arts styles.

How high was his damage soak, endurance/stamina? (Ie could out last someone, take injury, fight through pain)

Caedus was VERY capable of taking pain, so much that the loss of an arm didn't seem to phase him and that he fed off of his own pain.

How resilliant was he to incoming offensive force powers? (Ie how resistant to force lightening, force tk, illusions, mind control, etc)

Well he got fooled by an illusion from LOTF Luke, but LOTF Luke is pretty powerful. Again, Caedus has a very high tolerance to pain.

How does he rank compared to others?
1
2
3
4
Etc

I'd say below Yoda and probably Mace but above Dooku. Somewhere around that.

BW
That was an amazing post, you answered near everything I was seeking.

No problem.

BW
So basically, caedus was second only to luke in some areas, and unsurpassed in other areas by none?

Somewhat.

Between the war against the Yuuzhan Vong and the Dark Nest Crisis, Jacen explored the galaxy and studied under several non-Jedi/Sith Force-using cults and learned a lot of esoteric techniques. In terms of abstract knowledge, he's at least Skywalker's equal and very likely his superior.

In terms of Force strength, he's no match for an unrestrained or determined Skywalker, but was able to keep up with him in single combat.

BW
So if overall mythos wise if an extremely pissed off luke is ranked #1, then caedus is #2?

Not at all.

There are certain duelists and Force users who have demonstrated more strength and skill than Caedus and who are on par with Luke.

Originally posted by Gideon
So, honestly? I'd say before his death he probably was second only to Luke in terms of straight up power.

Talking about just NJO users, right?

DG
Talking about just NJO users, right?

ya

It's been a long ass time since I've read Fury, but I know enough to conclude that even if it's not by miles, Caedus is definitely Kyle's superior.

It's hard to assess where Kyp ranks next to Caedus, since he really didn't do shit during the Legacy of the Force.

I agree, he was definitely better than Kyle. We really don't know much about the power of the rest of the Order anymore though, since it seems that after the NJO series ended, authors completely forgot that non-Skywalker's/Solo's could do anything of significance. Seriously, besides Raynar leading the Killicks, no one has done anything big. Troy Denning seriously needs to wake up to that.

So over all (factoring in all strengths and expertise) in top 10 mythos, where does caedus fall, and where does luke fall?

Also for top 10 of all mythos for purely 1v1 combat where do caedus and luke fall?

And, if caedus would have been refreshed and at full strength, pittied against luke, both of whome are out to kill the other, in a gladiator type arena, who'd yo you believe would win? Could caedus win? Would he lose but leave luke so injured he would die of wounds? Your opinions and perceptions fascinate me!

Originally posted by Board Walker
So over all (factoring in all strengths and expertise) in top 10 mythos, where does caedus fall, and where does luke fall?

Also for top 10 of all mythos for purely 1v1 combat where do caedus and luke fall?

And, if caedus would have been refreshed and at full strength, pittied against luke, both of whome are out to kill the other, in a gladiator type arena, who'd yo you believe would win? Could caedus win? Would he lose but leave luke so injured he would die of wounds? Your opinions and perceptions fascinate me!

Luke would likely beat Caedus; from what I remember Luke was more injured than Caedus in that fight in LOTF: Inferno but Luke still won. Plus Caedus himself admitted that Luke was more powerful than him.

In the top 10 of the SW mythos, Caedus is likely 4, 5 or 6. This is not factoring in stuff such as orbalisks/amulets/etc.

BW
So over all (factoring in all strengths and expertise) in top 10 mythos, where does caedus fall, and where does luke fall?

It depends solely on your perspective. Luke, in particular, is one of the most inconsistent characters in the mythos. On one hand, you have him using the Force to manipulate dovin basals and tethering himself to the ground in such a way that "not even the galaxy's central black hole could move him" and on the other, you have a relative nobody like Lumiya kicking his ass and no-name Sith Lords resisting his telekinesis.

You have certain parties who prefer to ignore the lower ending feats, concentrate solely on his higher showings, and if you do that, he's very likely the number one Force user in galactic history.

My perspective is to take into account all of the feats and assume that some of his higher end showings (like the whole black hole thing) is probably exaggeration and hyperbole and, in a straight up engagement, Luke rarely (if ever) shows that kind of power. For me, Luke would still definitely be top five

BW
Also for top 10 of all mythos for purely 1v1 combat where do caedus and luke fall?

For me, Luke's top five in combat. Caedus isn't.

BW
And, if caedus would have been refreshed and at full strength, pittied against luke, both of whome are out to kill the other, in a gladiator type arena, who'd yo you believe would win? Could caedus win? Would he lose but leave luke so injured he would die of wounds? Your opinions and perceptions fascinate me!

Skywalker consistently demonstrates considerable superiority in terms of Force strength, but Caedus was able to contend and harm Luke in their duel in Inferno, despite his uncle's certain advantages.

Luke would definitely win, in my opinion, but he'd probably be injured in the process.

THE ANSWER IS FISH!!!!...just to let you know.

Originally posted by Gideon
It depends solely on your perspective. Luke, in particular, is one of the most inconsistent characters in the mythos. On one hand, you have him using the Force to manipulate dovin basals and tethering himself to the ground in such a way that "not even the galaxy's central black hole could move him" and on the other, you have a relative nobody like Lumiya kicking his ass and no-name Sith Lords resisting his telekinesis.

Lumiya in many of their fights was using human shields and such. In the final fight between Luke and Lumiya Luke pwned her.

You have certain parties who prefer to ignore the lower ending feats, concentrate solely on his higher showings, and if you do that, he's very likely the number one Force user in galactic history.

Yes, Luke is likely the most powerful in the SW mythos.

My perspective is to take into account all of the feats and assume that some of his higher end showings (like the whole black hole thing) is probably exaggeration and hyperbole and, in a straight up engagement, Luke rarely (if ever) shows that kind of power. For me, Luke would still definitely be top five

Luke is the most powerful in the SW mythos. The only other big contender is DE Sidious, but Luke totally outclasses him in lightsaber dueling.

For me, Luke's top five in combat. Caedus isn't.

Without orbalisks/amulets/etc., Caedus probably is in the top 5.

1. Luke
2. Sidious
3. Yoda
4. Caedus
5. Mace

Skywalker consistently demonstrates considerable superiority in terms of Force strength, but Caedus was able to contend and harm Luke in their duel in Inferno, despite his uncle's certain advantages.

Luke would definitely win, in my opinion, but he'd probably be injured in the process.

Luke was more injured than Caedus at the beginning of their duel and still won.

I thought sidious was an amazing duelist with a saber?

Making a top five or top ten list is really difficult. Do we put Sekot or Abeloth on the list? What about Nyax when he was amped up by Force well on Coruscant? Or Raynar when he controlled the Killicks? And then we just don't know enough about guys like Tulak Hord and Ragnos to know where to place them on the list.

Given all that....

1. Luke
2. DE Sidious

Caedus is somewhere below top two. More, we don't really know. In a 1v1 fight I doubt he's top 5. Overall Force ability though, he's way up there, maybe surpassing Luke.

BW
I thought sidious was an amazing duelist with a saber?

He is.

DG
Making a top five or top ten list is really difficult. Do we put Sekot or Abeloth on the list?

I don't know about Sekot; aside from being a planet, what were his major displays of Force power? If that's all he has, is sheer size (lol), then that's not going to save him from a Force Storm, which can tear the surfaces off worlds.

Abeloth, to me, is similar to Anakin Skywalker: powerful in the Force, but demonstrates little skill with it.

DG
What about Nyax when he was amped up by Force well on Coruscant? Or Raynar when he controlled the Killicks?

Sure, just with that caveat.

DG
And then we just don't know enough about guys like Tulak Hord and Ragnos to know where to place them on the list.

I believe you can examine what we know about them to give them a rough estimate. That Ragnos was the supreme overlord of the ancient Sith is certainly enough to say that he's one of the very most powerful Force users ever, just not nearly enough for Janus and co. to say he could LAWL PWN EVERYONE EVERYWHERE.

[i]DG[i]
Given all that....

1. Luke
2. DE Sidious

Caedus is somewhere below top two. More, we don't really know. In a 1v1 fight I doubt he's top 5. Overall Force ability though, he's way up there, maybe surpassing Luke.

I'd need to ponder it more.

It depends solely on your perspective. Luke, in particular, is one of the most inconsistent characters in the mythos. On one hand, you have him using the Force to manipulate dovin basals and tethering himself to the ground in such a way that "not even the galaxy's central black hole could move him" and on the other, you have a relative nobody like Lumiya kicking his ass and no-name Sith Lords resisting his telekinesis.

Behind Luke and Sidous,

Caedus/Bane/Yoda/Windu and MAYBE Exar Kun and MAYBE Kyp Durron fall into a sort of to close to call, dangerous enough to challenge and maybe even beat the top tier on any given day sort of second tier.

In my opinion.

Also, I don't think Caedus knew invisibility.