Entertainment After Intellectual Property

So let's say that intellectual property laws eventually fall, which (on the internet) quite a few people think they will. Once information is in the public it isn't owned by anyone, torrents supply every movie and song you can remember and it doesn't cost a penny.

I suspect this wouldn't be end of books, music or movies but no matter what you do it seems like reduced potential for profits would drop the productivity of those industries.

One idea I've heard suggested is having stuff run on commission. For books this shouldn't be a problem, the biggest costs of making a book are already almost gone and donations from the public can make it a profitable enterprise. Only ad costs have to be covered.

But for other things it doesn't seem to work. Alice wants to make a movie, she can't get proper investors to fund her (at least not reliably) since they have no way to recoup the investment. The cost of movies won't decrease and getting millions of dollars from the public with little guarantee of quality seems unlikely.

Thoughts? Other ideas?

who's alice?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
who's alice?

A person who communicates with Bob and sometimes Carol and Dave.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_and_Bob
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AliceAndBob

It's cryptography shorthand for the generic character "person A" that eventually spread through the sciences and then outward into the other sciences until it reached geek culture.

so why do u wanna give her money for? is it some kinda bot?

I predict more movies would be like Transformers, in the sense that it was one long car commercial.

If intellectual property goes, it is corporations like itunes and netflix who are going to benefit the most. So long as they can keep up with demand, they already have the net infrastructure to provide, for a nominal fee, exactly what people want.

Torrents are great, but not without a learning curve, that to many people makes them unuseable (I just dont think they want to learn; people will pay just to have something there ready for them without any effort).

As far as industries go, the type of thing you are going to see die are these generic, cookie cutter, blockbuster bands and films that dominated the 90s-00s. Its already really happening in music, though slowly.

Niche markets can support artists and independant film, especially on the globalized internet, though we might have to give up on the auto-tune and summer blockbuster crapfest.

This is probably going to happen anyways, losing intellectual property laws would just accelerate it, and would probably loosen the hold certain corporate entities are asserting on the access to media online.

Originally posted by Mindset
I predict more movies would be like Transformers, in the sense that it was one long car commercial.

Originally posted by inimalist
If intellectual property goes, it is corporations like itunes and netflix who are going to benefit the most. So long as they can keep up with demand, they already have the net infrastructure to provide, for a nominal fee, exactly what people want.

omg

And here I was thinking we would be freed from the shackles of corporate tyranny.

Originally posted by inimalist
As far as industries go, the type of thing you are going to see die are these generic, cookie cutter, blockbuster bands and films that dominated the 90s-00s. Its already really happening in music, though slowly.

Niche markets can support artists and independant film, especially on the globalized internet, though we might have to give up on the auto-tune and summer blockbuster crapfest.

Why do you think blockbusters will fade? Millions of people pay to see them today. A production house could release information and clips like they do today and ask people for a few dollars each. Risk is higher and return is lower, sure, but that's a problem for everyone under this system.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
omg

And here I was thinking we would be freed from the shackles of corporate tyranny.

ha. ha. ha.

...

no

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Why do you think blockbusters will fade? Millions of people pay to see them today. A production house could release information and clips like they do today and ask people for a few dollars each. Risk is higher and return is lower, sure, but that's a problem for everyone under this system.

I guess I'm speaking relatively or, maybe utopian. Sure, they could still be there, but that lower risk, versus the almost guaranteed return on these niche industries, might reform the way people watch movies.

Think about the iPod. suddenly, people have these huge, and most importantly, varried selections of music just on hand. I can't cite anything, but this has to have helped with diversifying the music industry. There are so many small bands making a comeback or breaking out, people like weird al are selling better than ever.

My thoughts are just that, as it becomes more available and less profitable for corporations, they will chase the market into the niches they are creating through such access, rather than continue to dictate through ever decresingly effective advertising what will be the next hit movie.

I think books and music could be relatively unaffected in terms of revenue generation. The only problem with removing the production costs as in not bothering actually printing books and having them distributed as e-books is that most people who I know who read a lot don't actually ever read e-books and stick to paper because it's less of a headache (literally).

Creativity in music will always happen and people will always find new music. I think the removal of the corporations will actually help the music industry and there will be far less music being "made" with the sole purpose of making money rather than for artistic merit.

Films are a different thing altogether. They require large funding to make so you'd either need financial backing from people who'd want a return on their investment (as currently happens with executive producers) or you'd have to have product placement advertising.

I do think that some directors could generate the money needed to make movies by asking fans to pay up front for their tickets to see it at the cinema but who would want to pay for a film they wont get to see for potentially a year and that they might not even like on the basis that they like the director's previous work?

I do think it's a bit much that the film industry is constantly harping on about pirating is damaging the industry when they continue to make movies that are more and more expensive and generate ever larger revenues.

The big budget visual films do serve a purpose in that they continually push the boundaries of what is possible (Avatar as a perfect example) and there needs to be money available to push the technology but I think less money in the industry would eventually mean more story and character based films which is generally what I prefer

So long as none of this effects good quality porn, though, then I don't care.

Originally posted by jaden101
So long as none of this effects good quality porn, though, then I don't care.

I haven't found anyone talking too seriously about it, but apparently the porn industry is losing a lot of money right now

Entertainment will be piped over the internet. ISPs will charge per unit data, instead of by speed. Media providers will lean towards free with adverts and/or montly service plans.

So, basically, it comes down to data.

This is what will happen in the future: media offered for "free" with adverts, but you pay for the data pipe OR media is offered at a monthly service plan....and you still pay for the data pipe.

Physical media will become niche. Things like DVD collections will by similar to collectors items.

In other words "rights" won't disappear, but they will change format. With security improving, access to media can literally take seconds to run a very hearty and complex authenticate for both the client and the server. It happens, on a simple level, right now with Netflix streaming. When you go to stream, the content license is verified each time before playing a movie or an episode. Every dang time.

Also, torrents are becoming so easy they you can tell your torrent tool to look for the newest episode, as soon as it's out there, for a television show. It does it automatically. It's gotten so simple that old people could ALMOST do it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Entertainment will be piped over the internet. ISPs will charge per unit data, instead of by speed. Media providers will lean towards free with adverts and/or montly service plans.

So, basically, it comes down to data.

This is what will happen in the future: media offered for "free" with adverts, but you pay for the data pipe OR media is offered at a monthly service plan....and you still pay for the data pipe.

Physical media will become niche. Things like DVD collections will by similar to collectors items.

In other words "rights" won't disappear, but they will change format. With security improving, access to media can literally take seconds to run a very hearty and complex authenticate for both the client and the server. It happens, on a simple level, right now with Netflix streaming. When you go to stream, the content license is verified each time before playing a movie or an episode. Every dang time.

Also, torrents are becoming so easy they you can tell your torrent tool to look for the newest episode, as soon as it's out there, for a television show. It does it automatically. It's gotten so simple that old people could ALMOST do it.

not that I disagree, actually, I can't wait for this, but the question was about what if there were no intellectual property laws 😛

more generally, the ways that I think intellectual property is protective has little to do with the industry, and more with the idea behind the art itself.

so like, the music I make, I encourage people to listen to it for free, I'd give it out as mp3 or cd gladly, that market side isn't important, and as you just said, if I wanted to, it would still be possible for me to have a business model that is profitable, if there was demand. but like, I would never condone my music being used by an advertiser or political party, especially without my prior knowledge.

there is this weird "line" between giving your media to the public and having it be the possession of the public, and while some copyright laws seem archaic and ridiculous to me, I can't say I have a better way to stop this more politically or commercially motivated distribution, which may or may not be really important to me (I waiver between the extremes at times).

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So let's say that intellectual property laws eventually fall, which (on the internet) quite a few people think they will. Once information is in the public it isn't owned by anyone, torrents supply every movie and song you can remember and it doesn't cost a penny.

I suspect this wouldn't be end of books, music or movies but no matter what you do it seems like reduced potential for profits would drop the productivity of those industries.

One idea I've heard suggested is having stuff run on commission. For books this shouldn't be a problem, the biggest costs of making a book are already almost gone and donations from the public can make it a profitable enterprise. Only ad costs have to be covered.

But for other things it doesn't seem to work. Alice wants to make a movie, she can't get proper investors to fund her (at least not reliably) since they have no way to recoup the investment. The cost of movies won't decrease and getting millions of dollars from the public with little guarantee of quality seems unlikely.

Thoughts? Other ideas?

Movies, book, music and other such things will start incorporating adds within the entertainment its self. Imagine your favorite band telling you to use this toothpaste in the songs on their album, or adds that are incorporated into the movie and can't be cut out. I would rather just pay for the stuff.

Originally posted by inimalist
not that I disagree, actually, I can't wait for this, but the question was about what if there were no intellectual property laws 😛

Yeah, I just don't see the dissolution of intellectual property laws in the next 30-40 years: they will only change over time.

It was really just me disagreeing, politely, with the assertion that intellectual property will become an antiquated phrase in the next few decades.

REALLY far out, though? I dunno. When we hit the 30-40 year mark, we start to get too far into the future to predict anything.

Originally posted by inimalist
more generally, the ways that I think intellectual property is protective has little to do with the industry, and more with the idea behind the art itself.

so like, the music I make, I encourage people to listen to it for free, I'd give it out as mp3 or cd gladly, that market side isn't important, and as you just said, if I wanted to, it would still be possible for me to have a business model that is profitable, if there was demand. but like, I would never condone my music being used by an advertiser or political party, especially without my prior knowledge.

there is this weird "line" between giving your media to the public and having it be the possession of the public, and while some copyright laws seem archaic and ridiculous to me, I can't say I have a better way to stop this more politically or commercially motivated distribution, which may or may not be really important to me (I waiver between the extremes at times).

I'm all about people making money off of their art, especially if people want to be entertained by that art.

IMO, letting people listen to your music for free from off of your website, but getting some sort of advertising revenues...that's cool. Put adverts and fan merchandise on your site. If people like your stuff, they will buy your merchandise and also your adverts will make you more money (it's a traffic thing.) Also, there is the "live performance" deal.

Even virtual participation may become a big deal. From Porn to city-busting concerts: virtual participation is getting bigger and bigger. This may replace, to an extent, the physical concert or other types of stuff like that. It's taking a while, but there's progress.

I just don't see intellectual property rights going away any time soon: just evolving to the mediums of delivery.

Originally posted by dadudemon
IMO, letting people listen to your music for free from off of your website, but getting some sort of advertising revenues...that's cool. Put adverts and fan merchandise on your site. If people like your stuff, they will buy your merchandise and also your adverts will make you more money (it's a traffic thing.) Also, there is the "live performance" deal.

The value of internet ad space has apparently been dropping with time, so that may cease to be a method of paying for site upkeep withing a decade or two.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The value of internet ad space has apparently been dropping with time, so that may cease to be a method of paying for site upkeep withing a decade or two.

Isn't that a function of market saturation and stale advertising methods rather than revenues actually dropping?