What seperates Sasuke from other foil main characters?
As you know, Sasuke is exetremely controversial, but in essence he's made to generate hate from fans and sometimes extreme anger. What does his traits seperate him from the other popular main foils in manga or anime? I'm sure he's got every single trait down to the dark and lonely motiff.
What's up with your fascination with the dude?
And Sasuke doesn't generate hate from his fans. We in the west hate him but apparently Japan loves him to death and he always scores ridiculously high on the polls. He's a very popular and likable character to the people who actually pay money to read the manga.
Originally posted by killermover
As you know, Sasuke is exetremely controversial, but in essence he's made to generate hate from fans and sometimes extreme anger. What does his traits seperate him from the other popular main foils in manga or anime? I'm sure he's got every single trait down to the dark and lonely motiff.
People hate his apparent emoness.
It all comes down to personal opinion, & you're going over the top with this Sasuke hate thing.
Re: What seperates Sasuke from other foil main characters?
Originally posted by killermover
As you know, Sasuke is exetremely controversial, but in essence he's made to generate hate from fans and sometimes extreme anger. What does his traits seperate him from the other popular main foils in manga or anime? I'm sure he's got every single trait down to the dark and lonely motiff.
Well, one of the big things is he started out rival but actually went villain, and once there continued to dig.
While villains often become rivals, and you have occasional temporary relapses like Majin Vegeta, it's almost *unheard* of for the rival to make the bad call, stick with it, and revel in it.
His arc went Aloof Rival - Aloof Rival who's now a friend - Friend/Rival who starts to get jealous - Jealous rival who acts on the jealousy and switches sides - side switcher who *stays there* and becomes an emotionless weapon for his goal, kills his boss and thus becomes free to walk away, accomplishes his goal so he can doubly-so walk back, but by this point he starts to be trapped in his rage and not knowing what to do, gives himself a new goal, and starts going insane with hatred.
Rivals just don't *do* that!
Originally posted by RE: BlaxicanWell he's one of my favorite characters, but to me he is very complicated as a character and envokes much controversy aka emeniem style. I mean, no character in the west anime fanbase is as hated as Sasuke IMO. Maybe nina, but she's obscure compared to the popularity of Naruto in general.
What's up with your fascination with the dude?And Sasuke doesn't generate hate from his fans. We in the west hate him but apparently Japan loves him to death and he always scores ridiculously high on the polls. He's a very popular and likable character to the people who actually pay money to read the manga.
And maybe you haven't noticed but Sasuke is a fan girl magnet, 98% of his fans are women who are in love with his destructive bishounen type. Poll wise, his fans are chicks. His entire character is based on his relationship with the main character, he is exploited for that and because he's so aloof and indifferent, he doesn't really have much of a personality.
I'm pretty sure theirs more fans of Naruto than their are Sasuke. But besides the point, you just can summerize Sasuke in one word, because he's different from your average shounen rival/foil main lead. Because it's like Kishi tried to make a ideal rival but failed to acutally compromise his true presence to the story. But to me, people treat Sasuke like a real person and he generates the most emotion out of readers loving him or hating him, so I'm just trying extend my opinion about his character through people who know the series well.
Originally posted by AstnerHave you by any chance ventured outside this forum? Especially TV Tropes and Naruto fan.
He's actually not that controversial and therein lies the issue, then again a lot of that might be credited to his environment. Some people expect more and others would deny him regardless of his quality. But the target audience finds him appealing so in that way he's a success.
Originally posted by Q99Guess who's the main aspect of the theme that emphasizes the central catalyst of the idea. Naruto. Kishimoto said that this premise is based on Naruto's character not anyone elses.
The central character is Naruto, the central theme is about cycles of hatreds and trying to break them.Gaara, Kyuubi, Neji, and of course Sasuke from the start, it's heavily pushed.
Sasuke is just a lamb out of a flock of sheep, he's the main lamb of course. Kishimoto never needed Sasuke to tell this story since he was created out of a whim from his editors.
Maybe thats why Sasuke's so hated, the author doesn't know what to do with him and ends up putting him where he's at his element, revenge which is poorly executed since a theme like that grows tedious in a shounen manga about a orange jumpsuit kid who looks like Goku with blonde hair.
Originally posted by killermover
Guess who's the main aspect of the theme that emphasizes the central catalyst of the idea. Naruto. Kishimoto said that this premise is based on Naruto's character not anyone elses.
Naruto represents the breaking of the cycle in the theme just as Sasuke is someone trapped within the cycle and an example of why it's hard to break, and thus Naruto's role is even more important. This doesn't go against anything I said, Sasuke's role is still part of the central theme.
Kishimoto never needed Sasuke to tell this story since he was created out of a whim from his editors.
That doesn't really say anything. Sasuke was made at editor suggestion, but then tightly wrapped in the current version of the story at the early stages, he wasn't just tacked on or anything, the main arc focuses in large part on Naruto's reactions to him.
Kishimoto could've hypothetically swapped out anyone at the stage Sasuke was added, even Naruto for another protagonist (and yea, main protagonist swapping at the start of a major series has happened before). The big story arc was written with Sasuke in mind.
Maybe thats why Sasuke's so hated, the author doesn't know what to do with him and ends up putting him where he's at his element, revenge which is poorly executed since a theme like that grows tedious in a shounen manga about a orange jumpsuit kid who looks like Goku with blonde hair.
Revenge was always going to be the point though, whether it was Sasuke or someone else.
It's not something that was just added in, it was always there, and Kishimoto was doing exactly what he had always planned since the beginning of this version with Sasuke.
Saying Kishimoto 'didn't know what to do with him' or 'he was slapped on' isn't the case. He was the one Kishimoto decided would be Naruto's counterpart and who was planned to be that way many years in advance. You can't just 'slap on' someone into being the main antagonist of a pre-meditated plot where he's centrally tied to many other threads.
It wasn't what a lot of people expected but that's another matter.
Originally posted by Q99Yes, thats what I'm saying all along, Naruto has rooted his entire character as the main aspect of the manga. Him and his achievements, Sasuke being one who will be the icing to his cake is the entire point of the story. Sasuke doesn't do anything personally to the story as a character, his character is a scapegoat to hype another characters progression and development. Naruto and the cycle is synnomus with each other, being the light, the destined child, the bringer of peace, and the reincarnation of a god. It's like Kishimoto tacked Naruto up to all these situations since he knew he strayed far away from the original idea of his character since all this Sasuke focus he's put in motion.
Naruto represents the breaking of the cycle in the theme just as Sasuke is someone trapped within the cycle and an example of why it's hard to break, and thus Naruto's role is even more important. This doesn't go against anything I said, Sasuke's role is still part of the central theme.
That doesn't really say anything. Sasuke was made at editor suggestion, but then tightly wrapped in the current version of the story at the early stages, he wasn't just tacked on or anything, the main arc focuses in large part on Naruto's reactions to him.Sasuke was tacked on as much as Sakura was tacked on and Team Habi/Taka were tacked on due to a mandate of the manga's production. Look we all know that Sasuke was not planned in Kishimoto's head, he even said he had to understand what a true rival is before he created him, this was a last minute descion for Kishimoto because Naruto already had been set up in Kishi's head.
The reason Sasuke is so important because the main character Kishi created represented an underdog with human traits and struggles in the manga, and Sasuke had to contrast that to flesh out Naruto. But the plot didn't change for Kishimoto, it just encouraged it. I'm saying, Sasuke never had many chances to Kishimoto as a character he planned. He was shown to early to be any significance to the mangas true theme. This is shown when Sasuke had betratyed Konoha and then almost killed Naruto, Kishimoto just uses Sasuke as a plot device to flesh out Naruto and use his flaws as a crutch to make Naruto more than he already is and expand the story which was probably a bad idea since Kishimoto elborated and retconed many things from part 1 and randomly crafted plot holes, inconsistancies and many crappy characters that don't even make any sense.
So, Sasuke is probably the reason Kishimoto doesn't write from the heart anymore and just for money. I mean WTF is the freaking Jyuubi + Sennin shit about?
Kishimoto could've hypothetically swapped out anyone at the stage Sasuke was added, even Naruto for another protagonist (and yea, main protagonist swapping at the start of a major series has happened before). The big story arc was written with Sasuke in mind.Sasuke was written as a shallow rival foil dude, not some big significant anti thesis. Look how much about his clan and plot is revealed from other characters, all he wants to do is kill, kill and kill. He doesn't even have motivation, only an emphasis on hatred, yaoi incest with his brother and a bigger ego the size of a Akamichi gut. How much as Naruto as a character needed to be shown to do anything short of rapping badly to making promises to pink haired girls, compare that to Sasuke who does nothing but to act like a retard who has no demensions other than kill and revenge?
This story was altered to meet editoral demands for jump, the mangaka only wanted a story with the character he envisioned first and formost and his world surrounded by characters without sharingan. Like Minato or Shikamaru, I bet he created Itachi out of spite so he can crap on Sasuke for the fact he was forced to make him be a main foil to Naruto even though he was never meant to be.
Revenge was always going to be the point though, whether it was Sasuke or someone else.Revenge is the only thing that makes Sasuke from becoming a second Gaara. Even though people like Gaara more than Sasuke, it's his only plot. Why couldn't Sasuke be more like Roy Mustang and be a foil yet a heroic counterpart to the main character.
It's not something that was just added in, it was always there, and Kishimoto was doing exactly what he had always planned since the beginning of this version with Sasuke.He can't plan things well then.
Saying Kishimoto 'didn't know what to do with him' or 'he was slapped on' isn't the case. He was the one Kishimoto decided would be Naruto's counterpart and who was planned to be that way many years in advance. You can't just 'slap on' someone into being the main antagonist of a pre-meditated plot where he's centrally tied to many other threads.Dude, he didn't even plan on Naruto having a rival, the editors made him make one. His manga wouldn't have been published if that were the case. I bet Sasuke was never supposed to be a main character, just another hype fight and one shot. But Sasuke turned out to be more than Kishimoto bargined for, he made him evil and had him make his character more one demensional for plot reasons. He was running out of ideas since he introduced Pain earlier and had him killed off knowing he killed the most powerful villain and retconed the impact by having Madara the focus.
That my friend is ruining a good thing.
It wasn't what a lot of people expected but that's another matter.Alot people hate the story now, it's only fair. People are sick of Sasuke's character taking precedance over everything Kishimoto discarded for only his ideal hero and ideal rival, people say he's lost his edge because he cares about meeting a standard for Jump and not his own vision.
Sasuke after all was supposed to stop his revenge after Itachi, he was retconed to be the final villain and become Madara 2.0. Kishimoto doesn't know how to foreshadow things and build up a suspenseful plot that makes sense.
That is why Sasuke is the most hated character in the fandom, his character his forced down our throats and is subjected to random and nonsensical angst and retcons bordering down to mary suedom and total PIS. At least have him win fights and **** shit up. 😂