The Superior form (Mk. 2)

Since the thread I made a few months ago got the kibosh because it had too many combatants, I decided to refine it a bit in accordance with what the general consensus for the best form of lightsaber combat seemed to be...

Alrighty, so four different combatants square off in the Genonsis arena. The combatants are equal in every way possible, except for the fact that they each use a different form of lightsaber combat.

Combatant 1 = Form II: Makashi
Combatant 2 = Form III: Soresu
Combatant 3 = Form VII: Juyo
Combatant 4 = Vaapad

*For the purposes of this match, each combatant is equally as force sensitive (lets say around Mace-level [no Shatterpoint, obviously].) However, the only force powers that can be applied in this match are those that specifically pertain to lightsaber combat (meaning offensive powers like force push, choke, lightning, etc. cannot be used, but things like force grip, speed, strength, etc. can be used.)

*Assume that each combatant has fully mastered their respective form of combat.

*If at any time a combatant's lightsaber leaves their hand, they are automatically out of the match, (their saber cannot be used by someone else.)

Which form prevails?

Pretty sure this should go in the vs. forum. But I'll bite:

Combatant #2 wins, after about 2-3 days of continuous combat.

As the narrative of ROTS said, no master of Soresu has ever lost in a straight up duel.

*Form II: "Makashi represents the ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat, and may have produced the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen."

*Form III: "True masters of form III have long been considered invincible. Although not always able to overcome their adversaries, no form III masters have ever been defeated."

*Form VII: "Only high-level masters of multiple forms can achieve and control this discipline, which can lead to fantastic power and skill."

*Vaapad: "To use Vaapad a Jedi must give himself over to the thrill of the battle, enjoying the fight and the satisfaction of winning. The Jedi must also accept and embrace the fury of his opponent. This transforms the Jedi into half of a superconducting loop, the other half being the power of darkness which passes in and out of the Jedi without touching him."

-All excerpts were taken from: Jedi vs. Sith - The Essential Guide to the Force.

As you can see, every one of the forms is very powerful in it's own right -- but imo it would ultimately come down to Vaapad vs. Soresu, and here's my reasoning why...

-Juyo is powerful, but it is also far too physically demanding for it to be utilized for prolonged periods of time -- it's out first.

-Next out is Makashi *dodges random objects being thrown*. While Makashi is an extremely efficient/powerful form of combat, I see it eventually failing against the Vaapad user for the same general reason Dooku began to falter against Anakin: ie. Vaapad simply allows it's user to tap into much greater reservoirs of raw power.

-That leaves us with the ultimate defensive form (Soresu) vs. the ultimate offensive form (Vaapad).... And toss a coin there.

I believe, the idea that a form is superior to anyother is bull shit. This is a toss up, IMO, any form can win it.

The OP says that the combatants are equal in every way, but Vapaad would likely require greater technical and physical skill than, say, Soresu.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The OP says that the combatants are equal in every way, but Vapaad would likely require greater technical and physical skill than, say, Soresu.

Prove it.

Originally posted by ares834
I believe, the idea that a form is superior to anyother is bull shit. This is a toss up, IMO, any form can win it.

Originally posted by Shoes
Prove it.

Vaapad is a variation of Juyo and thus would require lots of moving around and striking like Juyo does. Vaapad was also described as the deadliest form, yet one that was prone to dark side temptations. One that used Vaapad had to know a bunch of forms, be physically strong enough to use the form AND have a strong enough will to resist its dark side temptations. Hence why only a few actually tried using it, and only its creator Mace Windu is known to have actually mastered it.

Somewhere in that ramble you failed to prove that Vaapad requires more technical skill and physical power.

In fact, I recall Windu admitting that Depa's bladework surpassed his, and she is as physically strong as any other Jedi.

Originally posted by Shoes
Somewhere in that ramble you failed to prove that Vaapad requires more technical skill and physical power.

In fact, I recall Windu admitting that Depa's bladework surpassed his, and she is as physically strong as any other Jedi.

Originally posted by mattatom
Because she had let vapaad take her over.

Edit: But it's Mace, the guy is humble. He seems to think every one is superior than him.

Originally posted by Shoes
Somewhere in that ramble you failed to prove that Vaapad requires more technical skill and physical power.

In fact, I recall Windu admitting that Depa's bladework surpassed his, and she is as physically strong as any other Jedi.

High level knowledge of multiple forms.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
High level knowledge of multiple forms.

Yes, you require technical skill in other forms to be able to learn Vaapad. Once again, prove that Vaapad itself requires technical skill.

It's starting to annoy me how the various quotes from various books have been tossed around so much that people just utter them at the drop of a dime without even thinking about it, like they're some kind of auto-win button. What the hell's happened to this place? Yeah, KMC's never exactly been the creme de la crop of critical thinking, but geeze.

^ Ignoring canon statements is something that you used to criticise, if I recall, and something that Janus and Nai and others did at whim.

You have lost the game for misinterpreting my statements.

I think....it is a complete random toss up, any form could take any other form down.

Originally posted by Board Walker
I think....it is a complete random toss up, any form could take any other form down.