i think that you cant actually see God because he created the world but didnt create a whole of himself. when i was a kid i thought he was what you saw in pictures, i realize now that the pictures are other peoples idea of what he looks like, basically you can imagine your own God because he created you and he wants you to think of him as your best friend!!
I perceive God as a multi-dimensional harmonised being of pure data that can take any shape it needs to our limited perception.
Space and Time doesn't exist to this being. It weaves throughout it all.
The Physical Plane is but many illusions but to us a stagnant condensed ground of physics.
Consciousness amongst its inhabitants a gift but so simple yet complex at the same time....just like God.
To totally understand or perceive God is to become/join God there would be no returning back.
Originally posted by Digi
Physical death =/= brain death, which actually doesn't take place until several days after a person is declared dead (with limited exceptions, of course).
That doesn't matter just because it's not brain death doesn't mean they're not dead. During clinical death the brain shuts down within seconds and as well as everything else. Thats absolutely nothing wrong with considering somebody dead and just because it's reversible doesn't neccesarily mean anything.
Originally posted by Digi
Your definition of death precludes the idea of brain activity, so it's a self-serving definition. If there is no brain activity but there is an experience, it only leaves a supernatural explanation, and thus becomes self-fulfilling to a believer, even without proof or evidence. In reality, it's incoherent when compared with facts.
It's not a self serving defintion. The only reason why you think it's a self serving defintion is because you think there is something inherently illogical about the afterlife. Do you see what you just did there? You know damn well that in order for somebody to prove the afterlife we need to prove somebody is dead, you know that but you're basically arguing that even if we prove that somebody is dead you won't accept it. So in other words you're always going to assume that there isn't a 'supernatural' explanation because you think the concept is inherently illogical. Can you prove that the afterlife is an inherently illogical concept, no you can't. I on the other hand do not believe that this conclusively proves the afterlife, my issue with you and others is bias.
Originally posted by Digi
Also, OBE's frequently happen during NDE's where there is enough physical trauma to potentially kill someone. The two experiences are not identical, but can be linked or even overlap. The affects of both have been recreated in laboratory settings by stimulating areas of the brain associated with intense trauma and terror.
Do you not understand that these are examples with fully functioning brains? The reason why they were able to recreate the experiences was because their brains were working. During NDEs the brain has completely shut down or is a total piece of crap. This is a very simple point and I'm not sure how I can simpfly things even further.
Hell if an engine was smashed to bits and was able to run at over 100mph would you then try to explain how that was possible by using a brand new car? Of course not, common sense.
Originally posted by Digi
I didn't cite specific refutations earlier because, frankly, they're easy to find for anyone interested in finding them. I, nor anyone else, can't be expected to educate others on easily-accessed matters that the other party can't be bothered to look for.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You are assuming that I haven't done reasearch in that regard you're obvoulsy making this assumption because I have different opinion. So just because I'm arguing in favour of NDEs means I haven't done enough reasearch, yes Digi I know about those examples. Not only that you're trying to gang up on me "anyone else". Assuming I don't know what I'm talking about implying that people of an athiest persuasion know more about science and they regularly have to correct me. Well you're wrong.
Are you going to stop behaving like an elitist and treating spiritual people like idiots? Yes or no?
Originally posted by Digi
The fact that you seem to associate OBE's only with meditation or drugs suggests we're not even talking about the same things.
Yes more obnoxiousness. If you're going to be arrogant at least try to read my post properly, one thing I said was etc that obvoulsy refers to all the different ways in which you can recreate OBEs. Also hallucinations, meditations and drugs pretty much covers any different methods you can use and even some you have mentioned.
Originally posted by Mindship
Variations in translation? But I also suspect it's because each "new religion" (Judaism --> Christianity, Christianity --> splitting into sects) sought to distinguish itself by putting its own spin (the "correct" one, of course) on the commandments. Kinda like Christianity claiming Sunday as the Sabbath since those damn Jews already heisted Saturday, which left littlest brother Islam with Friday (no wonder so many Muslims always look pissed).
Friday isn't a sabbath day in Islam; the sabbath would still be Saturday. Muslims are commanded to take off and go pray the Jumah congregational prayer at around noon and then go back to work. The Sabbath doesn't work like that.