The lasso of truth gauntlet

The lasso clears them all, with the following caveats:

Phoenix can "lie", circumstantially, by altering the *reality* of what is being asked/discussed, and can likely free herself from the lasso by exerting the *truth* of her (Phoenix) being an essence which should not and cannot be properly contained or controlled; however, she also would have to face certain other universal/meta-truths, and likely would leave the general area to contemplate some ultimate truth she hadn't thought of before.

Odin could circumstantially occlude truth in the sense of answering a question with a greater truth than most would be able to understand readily; however, he would not be able to properly lie/deceive, as such, as the universal truth the lasso brings to bear on the situation is the same as the universal truth he, himself, came to understand via the runes, and hanging from Ygg...

Squirrel Girl will tail-spin WW, defying the lasso's submission power, via the Greater Truth that she (SG) is just meta-capable of defeating anyone. She then keeps the lasso as a new accessory, 'cus it's shiney and glows...

*****

Everyone else has no generally viable options, as no degree of willpower or "uber-machismo" is in any way, shape, or form a factor in "resisting" the lasso's power -- only a truly greater understanding of universal/meta-truth allows for "working around" the lasso's power (and while Dr. Strange could, at his height, *possibly* come close to getting an occasional out on this, as he stands currently I highly doubt it...).

Doom lies, breaks the lasso and proceeds to kill the JLA

Originally posted by amnesia
Doom lies, breaks the lasso and proceeds to kill the JLA

As a comical answer, I'll go with that.

He unfortunately is then defeated by Squirrel Girl, who saves the JLA at the last moment, and the wraps Doom in her tail, forcing him to...

I remember Prometheus claiming he could resist it but I don't think that was ever proven, so I'm not sure if the 'strong willed individual' resisting it has any evidence. A few other characters here and there like Titus, Doomsday, Queen of Fables etc have resisted it easily enough.

I think the Skyfather and above types like Odin could probably do it because they are likely above the enchantment, Phoenix is definitely above it in power and could lie.

Dr. Strange maybe, but only with prep involving some kind of even more powerful artifact (or anyone with the reality gem who knew how to use it).

Thanos maybe, only because of various references to him as a being outside the normal bounds of chaos and order and so on, and because he seems unaffected by a lot of weird stuff.

Also, Squirrel Girl because she is Squirrel Girl.

Originally posted by basilisk
I remember Prometheus claiming he could resist it but I don't think that was ever proven, so I'm not sure if the 'strong willed individual' resisting it has any evidence. A few other characters here and there like Titus, Doomsday, Queen of Fables etc have resisted it easily enough.

Those are good examples of "the meta-truth" of a situation: it isn't a question of willpower, but rather one of cosmic/narrative truth (a concept that does *not* interpret well into a KMC setting). In the other thread that got closed, it was easy to tell the posters who *got* how the lasso works from those who didn't; those who didn't would use descriptors like "wolverine's anger/rage/uber-munchkiness" allowing him to resist the lasso -- which of course has no bearing at all on the lasso's power, in any way, shape, or form. Someone also referrenced his being able to "lie" about certain things due to his programming/false memories; the lasso burns through amnesia, intoxication, and mystical coercion with ease. Now, if the situation arose, Logan could work his way out of the lasso by stating "I ain't got time for this, bub -- the power of Fandom/Fanbois frees me..." -- that would be meta-true, 'cus the Fanbois would never allow their "boy" to be man-handled by a chick with a rope... leaving Diana to just turn to the reader, roll her eyes, and walk off with Squirrel Girl, who tells her not to feel bad -- "even I would need, like, two pages or something to beat Logan -- it's not like he goes down easy... like Thanos, or something..."

I don't even think the character necessarily needs to be concerned with the definitions of truth etc. or being able to lie within those definitions. I think anyone with sufficient power, e.g. above the gods who made it, can simply overpower the enchantment that empowers it, regardless of the concepts it embodies.

But then some of the depictions of the lasso and how it works, like in Golden Perfect, have been kind of odd.

Originally posted by basilisk
I don't even think the character necessarily needs to be concerned with the definitions of truth etc. or being able to lie within those definitions. I think anyone with sufficient power, e.g. above the gods who made it, can simply overpower the enchantment that empowers it, regardless of the concepts it embodies.

But then some of the depictions of the lasso and how it works, like in Golden Perfect, have been kind of odd.

Now, see, that is part of the "perspective" problem some people have in terms of the lasso -- that definition above fit perfectly with the *Pre*-Crisis lasso (which was really, in comic/gamer terms, little more than a suped-up "Magic Item" that you could have rolled-up in some DnD game); but in the Post-Crisis universe (and taking into account New Earth, et al), the lasso isn't "merely" some enchanted piece of rope -- it *is* Truth, as manifested through Diana. It isn't so much that "more powerful" forces "overwhelm" the enchantment, but rather these "forces" are, themselves, at a level where they understand or can convey truth in a manner superior to that which 99.999999% of other characters can; it is less Phoenix's power (though, of course, that is a factor) that allows her to side-step the lasso, as it is moreso that she is a fundamental "truth", herself, of the universe.

To be more specific, if we added, say, Gaiman's Death to the list, she would likely tell WW *all sorts of things* that Diana would rather not have heard, and WW might well find herself truly demoralized afterwards... as the lasso slowly unwound from Death, who herself didn't *do" anything, specifically, but in general could not be held long by the Lasso, as the *truth* of her being is that she *can't* be readily held, as such (or, Death might find *herself* suddenly being the one weilding the lasso, and *Diana* is the one bound by it... or similar meta-truth-y symbolism). Conversly, a seemingly Uber-Powerful, Ultra Whoop-Ass character (we'll call him "FanBoi"😉 would likely find himself completely subdued by the Truth that the lasso conveys, to the point of shedding tears and possibly re-contemplating his Munchkin-y ways -- regardless of his ability to move planets, fart nuclear explosions, or stare-down Batman...

Doom: "Reed Richards is smarter than I am!"

WW: "There, you said the truth"

Doom throws the lasso away: "It isn't damn it!"

lol

Originally posted by basilisk
I remember Prometheus claiming he could resist it but I don't think that was ever proven, so I'm not sure if the 'strong willed individual' resisting it has any evidence. A few other characters here and there like Titus, Doomsday, Queen of Fables etc have resisted it easily enough.

Note that Prometheus said that if they tried to force him with it, he'd resist until his brain broke. Even Prometheus did not think he could lie, just resist unto death.

Also on the Queen's case, she snapped it with her powers, but later Diana got it on her and used it's powers to overcome the Queen's and make her see the truth of the world, defeating her, the truth power work even on someone as strong as her who was constructed of fiction.

You can out-willpower the compulsions, or with sufficient magic escape for it and, incredibly rarely, even break it, but I don't think anyone has ever lied to the lasso, not even Skyfathers or similar.

tideoftime
In the other thread that got closed, it was easy to tell the posters who *got* how the lasso works from those who didn't; those who didn't would use descriptors like "wolverine's anger/rage/uber-munchkiness" allowing him to resist the lasso -- which of course has no bearing at all on the lasso's power, in any way, shape, or form.

Quite. One poster argued that Adam Warlock's motives would let him do so, which was also totally off-base.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Those are good examples of "the meta-truth" of a situation: it isn't a question of willpower, but rather one of cosmic/narrative truth (a concept that does *not* interpret well into a KMC setting). In the other thread that got closed, it was easy to tell the posters who *got* how the lasso works from those who didn't; those who didn't would use descriptors like "wolverine's anger/rage/uber-munchkiness" allowing him to resist the lasso -- which of course has no bearing at all on the lasso's power, in any way, shape, or form. Someone also referrenced his being able to "lie" about certain things due to his programming/false memories; the lasso burns through amnesia, intoxication, and mystical coercion with ease. Now, if the situation arose, Logan could work his way out of the lasso by stating "I ain't got time for this, bub -- the power of Fandom/Fanbois frees me..." -- that would be meta-true, 'cus the Fanbois would never allow their "boy" to be man-handled by a chick with a rope... leaving Diana to just turn to the reader, roll her eyes, and walk off with Squirrel Girl, who tells her not to feel bad -- "even I would need, like, two pages or something to beat Logan -- it's not like he goes down easy... like Thanos, or something..."

Look they are asked what their favorite color is and they have to say the color on the opposite side of the color wheel...OK!?!?!??!Happy now.

No not knowings its the truth...no meta truths.Just sheer willpower or whatever to try to lie.

odin thats it

odin > lasso

Originally posted by zeel
odin thats it

odin > lasso

Break yes, lie no.

Originally posted by tkitna
Doom lies straight to her face for he is Doom.

Originally posted by Bentley
Doom: "Reed Richards is smarter than I am!"

WW: "There, you said the truth"

Doom throws the lasso away: "It isn't damn it!"

Shouldn't that be the other way around? I always thought there was something unspoken between Doom and Kang...

Originally posted by Q99
Shouldn't that be the other way around? I always thought there was something unspoken between Doom and Kang...

And Kang obviously has a thing for him, he even goes for the whole armored look!

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Meta truth?

Look they are asked what their favorite color is and they have to say the color on the opposite side of the color wheel...OK!?!?!??!Happy now.

No not knowings its the truth...no meta truths.Just sheer willpower or whatever to try to lie.

You don't understand the properties of the lasso then. Willpower has nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Meta truth?

Look they are asked what their favorite color is and they have to say the color on the opposite side of the color wheel...OK!?!?!??!Happy now.

No not knowings its the truth...no meta truths.Just sheer willpower or whatever to try to lie.

As Q99 and Sasaraixx have indicated, your question/POV in terms of the inquiry is flawed: the "lying via willpower" aspect of your question is moot -- there is *no* "willpower" that can "lie" in terms of the lasso; it isn't that there is a "magical spell that makes me tell the truth" about the lasso -- the lasso *is* TRUTH, given physical form (and spiritual essence via Diana).

Now, as also indicated by others, someone like Odin *might* be able to break the lasso (though it's explicitly stated as being able to bind men and gods alike), and certainly the Phoenix would wield power enough to perform a similar feat, and that, in and of itself, is a *separate* consideration/event (and, mind you, the lasso would likely find itself reconstituted/repaired later that issue/in the next story). But in terms of "deceit via WILLPOWER(!)", your question, in and of itself, is missing the underlying nature of how the lasso works/is; "greater beings" can "lie" under the influence of the lasso, not because they actually "lie", but because they convey a greater truth (a greater *meta-truth*) than the questioner (Diana, presumably) can understand/bring to bear on the situation (like in JLA, with Diana attempting to question/subdue a greater being -- of which Odin or Phoenix might similarly apply -- and he "resisted" the question by relating the greater truth "I am... NOT one to be questioned by the likes of YOU..." --- and because that statement was a greater META-TRUTH, he "resisted" the lasso... and gave Diana and Supes the what-for headcrack between them...)