Iraqi war over?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What about it?

It's not a secret that those troops are there. Every new sources everywhere is reporting that fact.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You mean that Germany is a developed nation with its own military and doesn't need US troops there to help protect billions of dollars worth of investment in the country's stability?

no, I mean that Germany doesn't boarder any nations America might bomb, and doesn't host a significant culture of people who start terrorist organizations because of the locations of American military bases

Originally posted by Parmaniac
IDk the media seems to make it seem like: Hey look awesome america again saved the day, everything is fine again, now let's go on with or lives. It's still chaos in Iraque (chaos that was caused by the US) and it will be even more when america pulls out it's troops. No offense to anyone but it feels like: Ok guys we got the oil, everybody thinks we give a **** about the people here, our mission is done, let's get the **** out.

wait...

do you think a more conclusive victory by the Americans could have been won?

like, you think there are military options for America to make Iraq better?

Originally posted by inimalist
wait...

do you think a more conclusive victory by the Americans could have been won?

like, you think there are military options for America to make Iraq better?

Originally posted by inimalist
no, I mean that Germany doesn't boarder any nations America might bomb, and doesn't host a significant culture of people who start terrorist organizations because of the locations of American military bases

If the US were going to bomb Saudi Arabia they would probably take off from the airforce bases in Saudi Arabia.

I concede the terrorist groups as a serious problem but I think that problem is mitigated by the improved relations with the Iraqi government. A total evacuation of troops would leave them at the mercy of those same groups, who consider them just about as bad as Americans. Power vacuums are terribly destructive things.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Difficult question, the whole war was against the law of nations in the first place IMO but they could at least stay there and build up everything again that the destroyed in the war. Iraque was never a "terrorist country" before the war, after the war it absolutely is. And now they pull off the troops not a good image for me personally.

don't you think that the mere presense of an occupation force within Iraq is a destabilizing force?

I'm unsure of what it is you want from them, aside from another chance to talk about how bad of an idea the war was in the first place.

for instance, if Obama chose to increase troop levels (you would need 5x the force you have there for a "surge" throughout the entire country) rather than pull out? would you be like "go America, win this war"?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If the US were going to bomb Saudi Arabia they would probably take off from the airforce bases in Saudi Arabia.

I meant Syria and Iran.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I concede the terrorist groups as a serious problem but I think that problem is mitigated by the improved relations with the Iraqi government. A total evacuation of troops would leave them at the mercy of those same groups, who consider them just about as bad as Americans. Power vacuums are terribly destructive things.

yes, but that is like arguing that because they let American troops into the kingdom to defend against saddam's possible attack, the Saudi government was protecting it's people in the best way possible, and that it would have been worse to let bin laden's mujihadeen do it.

neither of these points are really contestable, and the Saudi gvt can hardly be faulted for taking real help from an international ally opposed to radicals with no real loyalty to the state. however, the outcome from that was al Qaeda.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If the US were going to bomb Saudi Arabia they would probably take off from the airforce bases in Saudi Arabia.

Or Israel....

Deadly Attacks Across Iraq After U.S. Troop Numbers Drop Below 50K

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/deadly-attacks-iraq-us-troop-numbers-drop-50k/story?id=11479466

Unintended consequences.

...and so it begins. I honestly did not believe it would flare up this soon. But we can't police the world so unfortunately this is going to be a very ugly blight on the US for a loonnnnggg time.

with 50000 official troops remaining in permanent bases, and over 200000 private lawless bloodthirst contracters remaining, with a puppet government in place, mass corruption and numerous allegations of coverups and conspiracy to spark violence covertly on the americans, this WAR is far from over.

Depends on your definition of a war.

not to mention, every1 from the iranians to the turks to the syrians and the kuwaitis/russians {not to mention the international oil barons}, want a piece of that black gold booty{no pun intende}. suffice to say, unless the economic/oil interests of the players demand reletively stable societies to mine, the place will remain a battleground and all out hellhole for a while.

YouTube video

EMPIRE: America - Between Two Wars, Al Jazeera English

more about the general picture of American engagement in the middle east, but talks about the long term ramifications of US troops in the region, especially Iraq and Afghanistan.

47 min

They're very good (and very quiet).

I'm not sure I agree that this is simply a re-branding of the war. Even if the troops being taken out weren't really doing much at the time they were still there. The US has reduced the number of military personnel in Iraq.

What does interest me is the amount that the troops are still doing there, especially the Air Force base that is still expanding which I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere.

The story about the Marja failure in Afganistan is interesting, a very good look at why fighting the insurgency could well be impossible. I think they were too quick to gloss over progress made in other parts of the country. Urban areas have apparently worked out much better.

We will NEVER leave Iraq until the oil runs out. The war was never about WMDs or even Saddam Hussein. It was all about establishing permanant American military bases in the country with the second largest conventional oil reserves. It was about money, it almost always is.