Demonic Possession, Real or Fake?

Started by Stoic4 pagesPoll

Does it exist?

Demonic Possession, Real or Fake?

Does anyone believe in the possibility, that such phenomena may exist? Is it just a case of chemical imbalances in the brain? Could there be malicious or helpful spirits out there that could invade the body, like a virus invades a computer?

Discus.

GIVING THE DEVIL HIS DUE

Real-life case of demon possession documented
Woman levitated, spoke other languages, showed paranormal powers.

Posted: March 13, 2008
11:29 pm Eastern

© 2010 WorldNetDaily

An American woman who levitated, demonstrated paranormal psychic powers and spoke foreign languages unknown to her was clearly demon possessed, according to a board-certified psychiatrist and associate professor of clinical psychiatry at New York Medical College.

The unnamed woman, with a long history of involvement with Satanic groups, was observed by a team of priests, deacons, several lay assistants, psychiatrists, nuns, some of whom also had medical and psychiatric training, levitating six inches off the ground while objects flew off shelves in the same room, according to Dr. Richard E. Gallagher, who documented the case in the February issue of the New Oxford Review.

"Periodically, in our presence, Julia would go into a trance state of a recurring nature," writes Gallagher. "Mentally troubled individuals often 'dissociate,' but Julia's trances were accompanied by an unusual phenomenon: Out of her mouth would come various threats, taunts and scatological language, phrases like 'Leave her alone, you idiot,' 'She's ours,' 'Leave, you imbecile priest,' or just 'Leave.' The tone of this voice differed markedly from Julia's own, and it varied, sometimes sounding guttural and vaguely masculine, at other points high pitched. Most of her comments during these 'trances,' or at the subsequent exorcisms, displayed a marked contempt for anything religious or sacred."

The subject would have no recollection of speaking these phrases upon recovering from the trance-like state, according to Gallagher.

"Sometimes objects around her would fly off the shelves, the rare phenomenon of psychokinesis known to parapsychologists," reports Gallagher. "Julia was also in possession of knowledge of facts and occurrences beyond any possibility of their natural acquisition.

"She commonly reported information about the relatives, household composition, family deaths and illnesses, etc., of members of our team, without ever having observed or been informed about them," he said. "As an example, she knew the personality and precise manner of death (i.e., the exact type of cancer) of a relative of a team member that no one could conceivably have guessed. She once spoke about the strange behavior of some inexplicably frenzied animals beyond her direct observation: Though residing in another city, she commented, 'So those cats really went berserk last night, didn't they?' the morning after two cats in a team member's house uncharacteristically had violently attacked each other at about 2 a.m."

Julia requested a Roman Catholic exorcism ritual, convinced from the beginning of her consultations that she was under demonic attack.

"The exorcism began on a warm day in June," Gallagher recollects. "Despite the weather, the room where the rite was being conducted grew distinctly cold. Later, however, as the entity in Julia began to spout vitriol and make strange noises, members of the team felt themselves profusely sweating due to a stifling emanation of heat. The participants all said they found the heat unbearable.

"Julia at first had gone into a quiet trance-like state. After the prayers and invocations of the Roman Ritual had been going on for a while, however, multiple voices and sounds came out of her. One set consisted of loud growls and animal-like noises, which seemed to the group impossible for any human to mimic. At one point, the voices spoke in foreign languages, including recognizable Latin and Spanish. (Julia herself only speaks English, as she later verified to us.)

"The voices were noticeably attacking in nature, and often insolent, blasphemous and highly scatological. They cursed and insulted the participants in the crudest way. They were frequently threatening – trying, it appeared, to fight back – 'Leave her alone,' 'Stop, you whores' (to the nuns), 'You'll be sorry,' and the like.

"Julia also exhibited enormous strength. Despite the religious sisters and three others holding her down with all their might, they struggled to restrain her. Remarkably, for about 30 minutes, she actually levitated about half a foot in the air."

The purpose of Gallagher's paper, he says, is to "document a contemporary and clear-cut case of demonic possession." He explains that even those who doubt such a phenomenon exists may find this case "rather persuasive."

"Possession is only one and not the most common type of demonic attack. Possession is very rare, though not as exceedingly so as many imagine," he concludes. "So-called 'oppression,' or 'infestation,' is less rare, though hardly frequent either, and sometimes more difficult to discern accurately."

I think the idea that the dichotomy is "real" or "fake" is a little misleading.

Demonic possession is an interpretation of events occuring to an indivudual, and to call it fake seems to be dismissive of what they are experiencing.

While I don't think demons actually possess people, I don't think it would be fair to say demonic possession is "fake"

Originally posted by inimalist
I think the idea that the dichotomy is "real" or "fake" is a little misleading.

Demonic possession is an interpretation of events occuring to an indivudual, and to call it fake seems to be dismissive of what they are experiencing.

While I don't think demons actually possess people, I don't think it would be fair to say demonic possession is "fake"

You seem to be very knowledgeable, and no offense meant by this comment, but also very intelligent. Not many people even know what a dichotomy is, let alone how to describe it. I have or had a friend in another country that had episodes of a mental nature, who believed that he was himself possessed. One night he needed a place to crash so I let him take my spare room. That night was very bizarre, because he kept coming to my door complaining about how cold it was in my house, even though it wasn't, so my girlfriend gave him another comforter, and that was that, or so we thought.

He came back a little later during the night, and asked me if I'd walk with him to the store because he was unsure whether or not that he could make it there and back by himself. So I obliged. On our way, he kept telling me how he'd felt frozen, it was winter at the time, and I was in Montreal, Canada, so it's not that uncommon to be cold, but then again he was profusely sweating. I thought that it was a fever that he had, maybe the flu, but this did not explain why he was salivating like a rabid animal.

I went with him to the clinic the next morning, but the Doctor could not find anything wrong with him. Later on he told me that he'd believed that he was possessed by a "Martial Arts Spirit" or something attached to it. He stayed with us for about a week, until my Girl started to get antsy at which point I had to ask him to leave.

We hadn't spoken to him for several months, until one day he popped up, saying how he was interested in going out for drinks, and a few games of pool. So we made it a guys night out, and picked up a couple other friends for a friendly pool tourney.

I noticed that he did not drink much, he did have a couple beers, but no more than two. A little later during the night, he began acting out, and getting loud, even aggressive. So a couple Bouncers told him to take it down a notch, he then flew into a rage performing bicycle kicks, which missed their faces by mere inches. Oh yeah, my friend came in 2nd place in the Tai Kwon Do World championships earlier that year and was quite proficient in the sport.

One of the bouncers came to us and asked us if we could calm him down, which we eventually did, and left. He apologized to us all after the event, and said that he would be back, and that he had to use the phone. We waited, and suddenly we heard what appeared to be barking noises coming from the direction that he went. So we went over to see what the hell was going on. It was him, he was out in the middle of the street barking at two Police Officers in the middle of the street.

Anyways he was arrested. I haven't seen him since that night, but I can't help but remeber him telling me that he was possessed, and that he needed help.

Originally posted by Stoic
You seem to be very knowledgeable, and no offense meant by this comment, but also very intelligent.

ha, hardly, this just happend to be a subject I understand well

look, obviously I don't think your friend is actually possessed by anything in a real sense, but I do think that anyone trying to broach the issues he has should look at his experiences as being real, at least from his perspective.

I tend to think a lot of psychologists dismiss the personal relevance of experiences induced through mental illness, and that prevents them from helping people like your friend. It might actually be beneficial that he thinks he is "possessed", because that may act as an interpretive framework for his own ability to control his actions.

I have friends who have similar problems. If anyone saw pictures from the recent G20 protests, you undoubtedly saw a close personal friend of mine, who has serious psychological problems. It is unfortunate that all societies, at this point, really have left these people to their own devices. Because they aren't so disabled that they require constant supervision, the state totally washes their hands of responsibility, and families/friends suffer the burden of the illness.

Look, I'm sure this is meaningless coming from me, but you are a good friend to this person, regardless of anything they might say.

Bullshit.

Originally posted by inimalist
I tend to think a lot of psychologists dismiss the personal relevance of experiences induced through mental illness, and that prevents them from helping people like your friend.
A good psychologist will work with the person's belief system, at least as a starting point, eventually tying in what other approaches may be useful.

As for whether demonic possession is real or not: I think not. But I do believe some extraordinary phenomena can occur when a person's subconscious is engaged (eg, voice change). As for the more extreme claims, like paranormal powers, I regard that as heresay, though I don't reject the possibility on principle.

Originally posted by inimalist
ha, hardly, this just happend to be a subject I understand well

look, obviously I don't think your friend is actually possessed by anything in a real sense, but I do think that anyone trying to broach the issues he has should look at his experiences as being real, at least from his perspective.

I tend to think a lot of psychologists dismiss the personal relevance of experiences induced through mental illness, and that prevents them from helping people like your friend. It might actually be beneficial that he thinks he is "possessed", because that may act as an interpretive framework for his own ability to control his actions.

I have friends who have similar problems. If anyone saw pictures from the recent G20 protests, you undoubtedly saw a close personal friend of mine, who has serious psychological problems. It is unfortunate that all societies, at this point, really have left these people to their own devices. Because they aren't so disabled that they require constant supervision, the state totally washes their hands of responsibility, and families/friends suffer the burden of the illness.

Look, I'm sure this is meaningless coming from me, but you are a good friend to this person, regardless of anything they might say.


That's interesting. I'd curious how that relates to the way you were really dismissive of possession in this thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=514193

Originally posted by King Kandy
That's interesting. I'd curious how that relates to the way you were really dismissive of possession in this thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=514193

I wouldn't characterize myself as being dismissive so much as hostile, to which I would say that I still support the idea that those who perform exerscisms should be charged criminally.

The specific excercism mentioned in that thread involved the forced confinement and essential torture to death of a severly mentally handicapped girl.

Its not really related, I don't think, as I would never use that sort of hostility when engaging with someone who thought they were possessed, especially if I wanted to help them.

It´s not demonic possesion, more like insanity. Although I do think negative energy can influence someone if the LET it!!

It could happen the devil is real and I had heard of people being possess by him.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
It could happen the devil is real and I had heard of people being possess by him.

How do you know he is not in you right now? Boo! 😂

I'm catholic and even I think exorcism is bullshit.

exorcism is torture and should be prosecuted

Didn't they used to call people suffering from multiple personality disorders, schizophrenia, and the like being demonic possession? Of course it's all bollocks, it's merely ignorant humanitys way of explaining things they are to well ignorant to comprehend.

Originally posted by Liberator
Didn't they used to call people suffering from multiple personality disorders, schizophrenia, and the like being demonic possession? Of course it's all bollocks, it's merely ignorant humanitys way of explaining things they are to well ignorant to comprehend.

lol, even people with disorders that hollywood doesn't think are sexy

I think that there are manipulators who can make people think almost anything. I also think there are very gullible people. Thirdly, I believe that there are some things that the human mind cannot understand and so try to categorize into slots that may be too simple.

So you see, there are a lot of "ifs" and "mays," and "mights," "maybes." I don't think anyone can be very sure about anything in this subject../

Originally posted by siriuswriter
I think that there are manipulators who can make people think almost anything. I also think there are very gullible people. Thirdly, I believe that there are some things that the human mind cannot understand and so try to categorize into slots that may be too simple.

So you see, there are a lot of "ifs" and "mays," and "mights," "maybes." I don't think anyone can be very sure about anything in this subject../

Are you sure about that? 😂

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
It could happen the devil is real and I had heard of people being possess by him.

Why would the Devil blow his cover by possessing young abused girls and making a scene?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How do you know he is not in you right now? Boo! 😂

lol I hope not. 🙁 😆

Biblicaly speaking, yes. And before a bunch of cynical atheists jump on the bandwagon of 'They didn't know about mental illness back then, so they thought it was the devil.....duuuur!" (i added the duuuur part) The new testament is absolutely clear the difference between possession and illness. Jesus cast out a demon AND healed a man with epilepsy in the same paragraph. So there. As for the subject: Modern day possessios are fake. The only reason there were possessions in the NT was simply to show off jesus power. Familiar spirits can't take someone over without concent. In the OT there was only one possession(simon the 1st king) and god was the one who put the evil spirit in him. Which, in my opinion, was a dick move.