Chinese scientists challenge the 'Out of Africa' theory

Started by lil bitchiness3 pages

Chinese scientists challenge the 'Out of Africa' theory

Looks like we're from Guangxi, China!

http://english.cas.cn/Ne/CASE/200704/t20070423_17992.shtml

http://english.cas.cn/ST/RE/re_project/200911/t20091110_46982.shtml

http://english.ivpp.cas.cn/ns/es/200911/t20091103_46622.html


The "Out of Africa" theory suggests that modern humans evolved from Africa and then spread throughout the earth about 70,000 years ago, replacing earlier humans with little or no interbreeding. But recent research on the remains of an early modern human (EMH) recovered in Tianyuan Cave in southwest suburb of Beijing indicates that the EMH dispersal from Africa to Asia is not that simple as previously thought.

The new finding is accomplished mainly by Dr. SHANG Hong, Dr. TONG Haowen and colleagues from the CAS Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology and Prof. Erik Trinkaus from the Washington University in St. Louis, US. Their work was published online on 3 April by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

In 2003, after a tough excavation under the charge of Tong, a total of 34 elements of an EMH were unearthed in Tianyuan Cave, six kilometers from the Peking Man Site at Zhoukoudian. The discovery consists of skeletal materials of an adult who was about at his late 40s or early 50s. The human remains, which were found to date back to between 42,000 and 38,500 years ago, are presently the oldest directly dated EMHs in eastern Eurasia, according to researchers.

Though the specimen is basically a modern human, it does have some archaic characteristics, especially in the teeth and hand bone. Morphological comparison indicates that the Tianyuan remains have a series of derived modern human characteristics such as a projecting tuber symphyseos, a high anterior symphyseal angle, a broad scapular glenoid fossa, a reduced hamulus, a gluteal buttress, and a pilaster on the femora. Other features more common among EMHs are its modest humeral pectoralis major tuberosities, anteriorly rotated radial tuberosity, reduced radial curvature, and modest talar trochlea. What's more, there is a lack of characteristics common among western Eurasian late archaic humans, including mandibular foramen bridging, mandibular notch asymmetry, and a large superior medial pterygoid tubercle. However, it really exhibits several late archaic human features, such as anterior to posterior dental proportions, a large hamulus length, and a broad and rounded distal phalangeal tuberosity.

This morphological pattern casts doubts on the hypothesis that a simple spread of modern humans from Africa, especially since younger specimens have been found in Eastern Eurasia with similar feature patterns. It could help explain how early human moved east across Europe and Asia, but the movement is not completely understood.

According to Shang and Trinkaus, "the discovery promises to provide relevant paleontological data for the understanding of the emergence of modern humans in eastern Asia." They argue that the most likely explanation for the mix of features is interbreeding between early modern humans and the archaic populations of Europe and Asia.

YouTube video

Thoughts?

Always trying to keep the black man down...

i think you might be racist Lil B. 😖hifty:

always something to do with race with you. 😉
[j/k]

Yeah, that just doesn't work on me.

....

But nothing about this new discovery? Do we expect to find more in multiple areas of the world? How will this contribute to our understanding of evolution?

Is this one more solid leap away from the creationist theories?

sounds like another 1421

EDIT: for instance, the Chinese will say they invented golf

Originally posted by inimalist
sounds like another 1421

EDIT: for instance, the Chinese will say they invented golf

I heard about that. I think it was ''Chinese inventions'' documentary. I'll try and look for it on youtube.

If China ever needs religion to control it´s masses it will probably claim God was chinese as well🙂

How does this sort of research work, do the oldest human remains found determine where we originated from? If so it seems a bit daft to me.

Although she looks more like a monkey in the picture, I think Ardi was the earlest human like remains found so far, she was a hominid who was thought to have lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia.

How old do the remains have to be for tectonal plate movement to be taken into consideration🙂

I personally think we came from another planet, or were "fiddled with" in a genetical sense a long time ago. The main reason being that we just don´t appear to fit in here. We hardly live in harmony with nature.

I'm going to wait until they turn over the skeleton to a research group not from China.

Next week there will probably be evidence that the Big Bang took place ten miles outside of Tianjin.

People are made in China.

Originally posted by Bicnarok

I personally think we came from another planet, or were "fiddled with" in a genetical sense a long time ago. The main reason being that we just don´t appear to fit in here. We hardly live in harmony with nature.

Quatermass and The Pitt (aka Five Million Years to Earth) 1967

Originally posted by Robtard
Quatermass and The Pitt (aka Five Million Years to Earth) 1967

Oh that rings a bell, I vaguely remember watching quatermass as a kid probably re runs as Im not that old🙂

That would be one series or film which would do well if they re did the stories.

Originally posted by Bicnarok

I personally think we came from another planet, or were "fiddled with" in a genetical sense a long time ago. The main reason being that we just don´t appear to fit in here. We hardly live in harmony with nature.


On the contrary, we fit in just fine. Unless you live in the Arctic Circle, people definitely weren't designed to live in those conditions. 😛

There's really no such things as "harmony with nature", it's just a matter of how large your footprint is. Whitetail deer or wild hogs are every bit as capable of destabilizing their environment as we are, its just they can't hope to affect global change.

Humans just have a very large footprint. It doesn't mean we aren't from Earth, it just means we're more successful than any other animal.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I heard about that. I think it was ''Chinese inventions'' documentary. I'll try and look for it on youtube.

after looking it up, i might have picked a bad example

however, a lot of these "new revisions" of history comming from countries like China and India need to be taken with a grain of salt, because they tend to have major nationalist influences.

I forget the guy's name, but Russia had a similar stance on Evolutionary science during the cold war.

Originally posted by inimalist
I forget the guy's name, but Russia had a similar stance on Evolutionary science during the cold war.

This guy?
http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/30701.gif

Originally posted by inimalist
after looking it up, i might have picked a bad example

however, a lot of these "new revisions" of history comming from countries like China and India need to be taken with a grain of salt, because they tend to have major nationalist influences.

I forget the guy's name, but Russia had a similar stance on Evolutionary science during the cold war.

I will have to look up that on Russia, I had no idea about it. If you find anything, link me up, please.

I found the documentary about China's discoveries -

YouTube video

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
This guy?
http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/30701.gif

yes, it was star treck all along

damn those high teck star trek turtlenecks!

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I will have to look up that on Russia, I had no idea about it. If you find anything, link me up, please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko

starved millions because the "capitalist" model of darwinean evolution was not applicable to Russia

Ok, so the conclusion of the majority is that this isn't believable...? If so, why?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Ok, so the conclusion of the majority is that this isn't believable...?

not that it is unbelievable, as in, it wouldn't shatter all the conceptions I had about human evolution (though, the genetic migratory patters would need massive revisions, as it currently shows a definate migration accross Asia from West to East), but there is reason enough to believe that this is not entirely true without outside labs and teams being given access to the material for verification

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If so, why?

For the most part, the fact that much Chinese academia is also concerned with issues of nationalism mixed with the fact that I've heard a couple of people who observe Chinese academia claim it is both fraught with fraud, and recently even violence.

(the former claim from a science based podcast, the latter from a recent article in The Economist)

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Ok, so the conclusion of the majority is that this isn't believable...? If so, why?

I guess it's possible but it seems rather like an American scientist claiming she discovered that living in America makes people genetically superior.

The out of africa concept is pretty well established. Knocking it down should require a lot of evidence and confirmation from various groups.