Why not thank God?

Originally posted by The MISTER
But there seems to be a whole lot of effort put in disproving God with science as if that could ever be done. Why is it considered proof against God when we make new discoveries about the world we live in? Evolution/Adaptation is something that we can actually see within our lifespans. How it's considered proof against God surprises me. As if creation makes more sense when it's simple and as soon as it shows a complexity that we can only theorize on God has been disproven.

I respect my fellow posters beliefs whether I share them or not. Whether or not we have a maker to give thanks to is a belief that will be based in faith even if scientific theories is all a person believes. Existence still has an endless number of mysteries for us to explore and we will never know everything....Thanks for responding all of you. 😮‍💨

I think that may actually be a fear more on the part of religious people or perhaps more accurately religious leaders, as it may be true that a pursuit of scientific ideals may make many people distance themselves from religious beliefs, however you are right that they aren't necessarily exclusive (though it can be used to disprove claims that are within the scientific realm)

Originally posted by The MISTER
But there seems to be a whole lot of effort put in disproving God with science as if that could ever be done. Why is it considered proof against God when we make new discoveries about the world we live in? Evolution/Adaptation is something that we can actually see within our lifespans. How it's considered proof against God surprises me. As if creation makes more sense when it's simple and as soon as it shows a complexity that we can only theorize on God has been disproven.

Think of it as a minimalist approach.

Originally posted by King Kandy
What has God given us?

You're breathing, aren't you?

If you're a believer ^that's reason enough to be thankful. If you don't believe, then you're right; there's no point at all.

Originally posted by King Kandy
What has God given us?

But it's not something to be really thankful about.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
A comic book called the Bible.

Nope, the manga version of the Bible was made by Hidenori Kumai not God.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You're breathing, aren't you?

If you're a believer ^that's reason enough to be thankful. If you don't believe, then you're right; there's no point at all.

What if I have a lung tumor and every breath is immensely painful?

you should feel blessed that the lord blessed you with two lungs. drylaugh

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You're breathing, aren't you?

If you're a believer ^that's reason enough to be thankful. If you don't believe, then you're right; there's no point at all.

Originally posted by Bardock42
... a lot of people have pretty bad lifes and should perhaps rather blame him.

But that assumes that those people should believe in a petty, meddling, God, not one that very rarely takes action in his childrens' lives. I believe in the latter form, of course. I believe in the God that doesn't help chickens out of their eggs but instead, built the chicken coop and placed the eggs there with random hens that may are may not take care of them properly. 🙂

Originally posted by King Kandy
But even if you believe, how would that invalidate the science showing that in fact it is your lungs that cause you to breath?

I would then disagree and say it is my diafram that makes me breath and, still further, I would say that it was my brain stem that makes me breath.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But that assumes that those people should believe in a petty, meddling, God, not one that very rarely takes action in his childrens' lives. I believe in the latter form, of course. I believe in the God that doesn't help chickens out of their eggs but instead, built the chicken coop and placed the eggs there with random hens that may are may not take care of them properly. 🙂

That is not required, though, even if he doesn't meddle at all and he is omniscient or at least knows what will happen he is to blame for create people that suffer a lot. If he has the ability to ease the suffering and does not or the knowledge that it will happen he is to blame for it.

Additionally your example again only works for suffering caused by other humans, which would be fair enough (though still his fault if he knew or if he could intervene like I explained in the first part), but much, maybe even most of the suffering doesn't come from other humans, it comes from the extremely faulty "chicken coop". Cancer, scarcity of food and water, bacteria and viri, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, animal attacks, AIDS are all not things that humans with free will bring onto themselves or other humans (it may be used to further suffering or by accident, but it all only exists cause God, if he exists, is a somewhat evil or at least pretty creator)

And I understand that many Christians (you Mormons too I believe) think that suffering is necessary to know joy, which is an interesting argument, but doesn't take any of the blame for a horrible life of a person away from God.

Originally posted by King Castle
if god existed i blame god for being created and living this life as for now i'll just blame my mom and throw it in her face from time to time..

They can thank God for staying alive and I am sure they have other blessings as well.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There isn't.

It's not. But when a religion says "god says the world works this way" and we prove it wrong then we've disproven that particular god. Repeat a few hundred times and one starts to think of gods as rather unreliable.

Originally posted by The MISTER
I would agree that people thus their religions are unreliable. 😮‍💨 But why does that equal a lack of faith in a maker?

Because the only "evidence" of god comes from religions, unless you pray to the god of the gaps.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Why do people feel that coincidence is powerful enough to create such a complex world and then give humans the only tools capable of exploring it.

Because the universe is a sphere that is billions of light-years across. Trillion to one chances should happen all the time.

Originally posted by The MISTER
No other creature that we're aware has imaginations of light speed travel and manipulating portals to other dimensions. Surely there is something special that has been given to humans in our awareness of the past and future. We are also aware of good and evil because of our ability to predict the outcome of our actions. It just seems to suggest a system of accountability to me.

Not to me. Those are all very useful traits. How long would you survive if you couldn't imagine the consequence of your actions? How long would our species survive if everyone was a murderous nutcase?

The interesting thing, IMO, about blaming God for suffering (whether by other people or 'natural' events, eg, disease, hurricanes, etc), is that, if we following this line of reasoning -- God is responsible for all things because He created this set-up -- we have to conclude that God created the sufferers as well. Put another way: if All is God, then ultimately, God is just screwin' with Himself for reasons only He is privy to.

It would also mean that, when I "Thank God," God is ultimately thanking Himself.

Oy. What a character.

Originally posted by Mindship
The interesting thing, IMO, about blaming God for suffering (whether by other people or 'natural' events, eg, disease, hurricanes, etc), is that, if we following this line of reasoning -- God is responsible for all things because He created this set-up -- we have to conclude that God created the sufferers as well. Put another way: if All is God, then ultimately, God is just screwin' with Himself for reasons only He is privy to.

It would also mean that, when I "Thank God," God is ultimately thanking Himself.

Oy. What a character.

I think you've been doing a step from creating everything to being everything, I don't think those need be the same.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think you've been doing a step from creating everything to being everything, I don't think those need be the same.

Originally posted by Mindship
God, as colloquially conceived, can certainly be discussed with that distinction (and it raises an interesting set of questions in its own right). However, the esoteric traditions (Western as well as Eastern) do see them as one and the same.

I don't think that's true at all. However I am not exactly sure what you consider esoteric traditions.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't think that's true at all. However I am not exactly sure what you consider esoteric traditions.

Originally posted by Mindship
Mysticism. God as revealed by meditation (meditation and prayer in the Western faiths). Basically, if God is everything, then there can be no separate creator of everything, for that creator, too, is of God. Think of the relationship you, as a dreamer, have with your dreams. All that you experience while dreaming comes from you and is you (barring the occasional sensory intrusion).

I understand the concept, it's just not the common belief of most Religions as far as I can tell. Most modern Christianity seems to believe in a separate creator or personal God.

If you are just saying that "if God is everything" then fair enough of course..

Originally posted by Bardock42
I understand the concept, it's just not the common believe of most Religions as far as I can tell. Most modern Christianity seems to believe in a separate creator or personal God.