Originally posted by mindbomb
yes i do mean christianity thats usally the religion people mean in america but it could apply to all religions that view their god as a king
so, to you, someone's views on the organizational principles of humans must be the exact same as their views on the creator of the universe?
spirituality = politics?
Originally posted by inimalist
so, to you, someone's views on the organizational principles of humans must be the exact same as their views on the creator of the universe?spirituality = politics?
Originally posted by mindbomb
no but i find it odd that people who are in favor of democracy worship someone who declared himself king
why?
especially from a Christian perspective, there has always been a distinction between the affairs of man and the affairs of god (render unto ceasar)
you might have more traction if you presented this in terms of Islam, where such a politics/spirituality distinction does not exist, but they (re: a small fraction of Muslims who believe in Sharia) would interpret the hypocrysy in a different way. They would ask why we elect leaders when God has set out how to live for us (and in fact, some of the earliest Sufis can be seen as early anarchist philosophers under this world view: only God can rule, thus, the state is an affront to God).
From a moderate view of any religion, I can't see why this would be hypocritical though...
Originally posted by inimalist
why?especially from a Christian perspective, there has always been a distinction between the affairs of man and the affairs of god (render unto ceasar)
you might have more traction if you presented this in terms of Islam, where such a politics/spirituality distinction does not exist, but they (re: a small fraction of Muslims who believe in Sharia) would interpret the hypocrysy in a different way. They would ask why we elect leaders when God has set out how to live for us (and in fact, some of the earliest Sufis can be seen as early anarchist philosophers under this world view: only God can rule, thus, the state is an affront to God).
From a moderate view of any religion, I can't see why this would be hypocritical though...
but their has not always been a distinction between church and state and if you think their should not be that distinction how do you reconcile a state democracy with a autocratic church
Originally posted by mindbomb
but their has not always been a distinction between church and state
yes, and? do you mean to ask: "prior to the late 1700s, why did democratic principles not dominate the church?", the answer would be that most of the world hadn't known democracy for 1700+ years.
Even then, however, there was this distinction in terms of Christianity. Kings and Rulers led at-Gods-whim, not as representatives of God, with the exception of a) anglicism, which claimed God chose rulers through fate or b) the Pope, who is a "special case" chosen representitive of God on earth. Technically, leaders in Christian Europe followed the pope because he was powerful, not because all of their choices needed to be ordained by the church.
Originally posted by mindbomb
and if you think their should not be that distinction how do you reconcile a state democracy with a autocratic church
most people reconcile that the state should follow the word of God
I can't, off the top of my head, think of people who think that religion should be the guiding principle in all human interaction (including the political sphere) who would then claim democracy is the best way for people to live (at least, a democracy that allows for people to break church law, for instance, some Dominionist sects do say they want democracy under God, but that "democracy" is of a totally different nature than the one laid out in the American constitution. Religion would clearly supersede democratic will).
My assumptions would be that it is like any justification that people give for constitutional democracies though
EDIT: what religious groups are you talking about? you mention "Christians", but the vast majority of Christians are moderates anyways, who don't believe in biblical literalism or church absolute authority anyways.
Originally posted by inimalist
yes, and? do you mean to ask: "prior to the late 1700s, why did democratic principles not dominate the church?", the answer would be that most of the world hadn't known democracy for 1700+ years.Even then, however, there was this distinction in terms of Christianity. Kings and Rulers led at-Gods-whim, not as representatives of God, with the exception of a) anglicism, which claimed God chose rulers through fate or b) the Pope, who is a "special case" chosen representitive of God on earth. Technically, leaders in Christian Europe followed the pope because he was powerful, not because all of their choices needed to be ordained by the church.
most people reconcile that the state should follow the word of God
I can't, off the top of my head, think of people who think that religion should be the guiding principle in all human interaction (including the political sphere) who would then claim democracy is the best way for people to live (at least, a democracy that allows for people to break church law, for instance, some Dominionist sects do say they want democracy under God, but that "democracy" is of a totally different nature than the one laid out in the American constitution. Religion would clearly supersede democratic will).
My assumptions would be that it is like any justification that people give for constitutional democracies though
EDIT: what religious groups are you talking about? you mention "Christians", but the vast majority of Christians are moderates anyways, who don't believe in biblical literalism or church absolute authority anyways.
im talking about radical groups that claim to be patriots
i understand that most christains are moderates
take some of the tea party for instance (im not saying the whole tea party but rather some of the people that ran for office)
maybe a better way to express what im saying is that if you dont think that their should be a seperation of church and state than your not a true patriot