Tetsuo Shima (Akira manga) vs Lucy (Elfen Lied manga)

I've seen this fight argued a few times on other forums and personally I feel manga Tetsuo takes this but I want to hear everyones opinion ^_^

Both are bloodlusted, Lucy is pissed at Tetsuo, and Tetsuo wants Lucy dead

(if this is spite I apologize I didn't really get to finish either Manga but it's obvious they're much stronger in the Manga lol)

while lucy is a much cooler character, and has a much more original POWERFUL eh...power. tetsuo....there isn't anything she can do against him.

edit: this is with the knowledge of the anime of elfen lied, so she might be much more powerful than i am thinking

IIRC Tetsou was 'only' continent level, whereas manga Lucy was shaping up to be a legit planet-buster. I sincerely doubt that Tetsou can tank a Vector literally the size of Japan.

Moving at approximately Mach 800.

Originally posted by Nephthys
IIRC Tetsou was 'only' continent level, whereas manga Lucy was shaping up to be a legit planet-buster. I sincerely doubt that Tetsou can tank a Vector literally the size of Japan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Moving at approximately [b]Mach 800. [/B]

What's this Lucy being a planet buster shit? She was demolishing buildings around Japan, and how would you quantify the speed of her vectors?

Not that I know jackshit about Tetsuo or anything.

I'm going off this post, the numbers seemed pretty legit. *shrugs*

Speed

Lucy is standard Human Speed, however, her reaction time and the speed of her Vectors is far greater. The Vectors themselves can travel at speeds well into the hypersonic range.

Lucy is casually able to react to dozens to hundreds bullets and use her vectors to intercept them from midair:

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/70/15/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/5/07/

When Lucy was shot in her docile personality, the pain she received the moment the bullet hit her skin triggered her dominant consciousness to take over. In that split instant, she used her vector to stop a bullet that had already pierced her skin, and pull it out before it could reach her heart:

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/68/08/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/68/09/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/68/10/

Lucy's Vectors are capable of intercepting missiles the moment they are launched from miles away:

The Light streams are where Lucy stands:
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/101/16-17/

The Ship launches a missile miles away on the water, that is almost immediately stopped by Lucy:
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/103/14/

Lucy's Vectors move faster than MODERN FIGHTER JETS:

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/103/12/

In a Final Act of Rage, Lucy moves her Vectors through the Earth's atmosphere and into SPACE in a matter of seconds:

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/105/13/

Specific Calculations for Speed

Every time a thread with Lucy emerges, people seem to assume that her top speed is at bullet timing...

THIS IS WRONG

The Minimum

Clearly as this scan shows:
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/105/13/

Lucy's vectors leave the atmosphere of the EARTH, and extend a few thousand miles into SPACE.

As our good friend Wikipedia has decided to show us...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(speed)

The minimum speed required for an object without propulsion (ex. Thrusters on a space shuttle) need to escape Earth's gravity and leave its atmosphere, in other words Escape Velocity, is 11200 m/s

The speed of sound in comparison, is 331.5 m/s

At the absolute LEAST, Lucy's vectors are at 11200m/s or approximately Mach 33.

A Bit Faster...

This next calculation for speed is somewhat more difficult...

As is visible in the next few scans, Lucy is set in her lethargic personality Nyuu, when she is shot, but the moment the bullet pierces her skin, pain is felt, and Lucy regains control of her body, unleashing her vectors to stop the bullet before it reaches her heart, and tears it out.

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/68/07/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/68/08/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/68/09/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/68/10/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/68/11/

Here, Lucy also states that the bullet had in fact, reached her heart the moment she stopped it and tore it from her body.

As is common knowledge in the OBD, a standard bullet's speed may range between 1000 m/s and 1500 m/s depending on the gun used

with Wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(speed)

The speed of a standard rifle bullet is 1000 m/s

We will ignore the fact that Lucy was not shot with a rifle, but instead with a high quality military arm, and take the low-end estimate

Now with this website:
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...94731707007560

we are informed that the distance between the skin and the heart is can range from near 40mm to 17mm.
Because this is in direct correlation to body mass, and Lucy happens to be quite thin... we will be using 24.2 mm as the distance needed.

----The Timeframe----

To calculate the timeframe Lucy had to act, it would have been from the moment the bullet had pierced her skin, to the moment it touched her heart.

to make this easier, 24.2 mm --> .0242 m.

(.0242m)/(1000m/s) = .0000242 seconds. <-- Time for Lucy to Act

----The Speed----

Now in that timeframe of...er... .0000242 seconds, Lucy would have had to release her vectors and move it around her body to reach into her chest and stop the projectile.

For the sake of convenience, let's say that she stretched a whole meter around her body, making it so she moved about 1 meter in .0000242 seconds.

(1m)/(.0000242 secs) = 41322.31 m/s

Quite frankly, her vectors would have had to have been moving 41322.31 m/s in order for her to catch the bullet and save herself before it pierced her heart.

In comparison to sonic speed, this would put her at about Mach 124.

So the Mid-Estimate for vector speed is about 41322 m/s or Mach 124.

The High End...

Again... we will be looking at the famous pictures of Lucy's planetary scale vectors.

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/105/13/

Now we are aware that they reached well into space, 2888.88 miles to be exact (look at the "Vector Length" section)...

The only thing we are NOT given is a time frame.

To make this easier, first we convert the miles into kilometers
So 2888.88 miles = 4647.7 km

Now if we look at the rest of the scans taking place in between the release of Lucy's Vectors and their reach into space, we can see a number of destructive events caused by her, along with anger-induced screaming:

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/105/10/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/105/11/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/105/12/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/105/13/

Because she has dozens of vectors though, the destruction would more or less have been taking place in a simultaneous time frame, as only 8 vectors left the atmosphere.

Instead, we will focus on Lucy's enraged yells:
-"I'm going to Die you said?"
-"Damn you! Damn you!"
-"A lot of people are gonna die"
-"This world IS MINE!!"
-"If I have to hand this world over to these apes..."
-"Before this body melts... I WILL KILL YOU ALL!!"

Believe it or not, my friend and I did a test run to re-enact this voice-sequence. Depending on drama and Lucy's vowel extensions, she would have taken between 17 and 21 seconds to scream this all out while her Vectors rose above the atmosphere.

Keep in mind, that Lucy couldn't have taken particularly long, as her body was a melted puddle at this point...

So taking the longest vector at 4647.7 km, and the time frame of seconds:

4647.7km/17sec = 273.394 km/s
4647.7km/21sec = 221.319 km/s

At the best, the speed of her Vectors would have been 273.394 km/s or 273394 m/s [B(mach 824)[/b]...

Somewhat slower, the speed of her Vectors would have been 221.319 km/s or 221319 m/s (mach 667)...

A More Accurate Limit

The Next Calculation will rely on a few close estimations and hard statistics, regarding Lucy intercepting an SM-3 Missile fired by a Naval Warship...

According to the manga, the Island that Lucy was on when this occurred was Enoshima:

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/103/10/

According to Wikipedia, Enoshima is approximately Four Kilometers in Circumference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoshima

With this information, it can be determined that Enoshima would have an average diameter of about 1.27 km, or 1270 meters.

Now, looking at these two pictures, it is clear that the Naval Warships are approaching Enoshima from the North, and that they are not present for at least another "island-length" in juxtaposition to Lucy's location.

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/103/10/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/103/13/

Now, the actual speed of Lucy's Vectors will be calculated from THIS picture:

http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/103/13/
http://www.1000manga.com/Elfen_Lied/103/14/

Clearly depicted, is Lucy breaking a missile in half almost immediately after it launched.

Assuming that Lucy was on the tower at the very center of the island, the distance between her and the ships would have been a MINIMUM of 1.905 km, with the island diameter being 1.27 km, and 1.5x that distance being the result.

Now, they called the Missile "SM-3" meaning "Standard Missile 3".

Looking HERE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-161_Standard_missile_3

The Missile was 6.55 meters long, and from the manga excerpt, Lucy appeared to intercept it at a height measuring approximately 3.5x the length of the missile itself.

6.55m x 3.5 = 22.925 meters

Other sources inform me that the missile will reach a speed of 3km/second

http://www.tonyrogers.com/weapons/ki...nterceptor.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=HU0...esult&resnum=6

So, with a bit of simple math, Lucy's Vectors had traveled a distance of about 1905 meters in the same time it took for the SM-3 Missile to travel a distance of 22.925 meters.

(22.925 meters) / (3000 m/s) = .00764 seconds

Now if Lucy were to travel that distance in said time...

(1905 meters) / (.00764 s) = 249345.54 m/s

With the specified SM-3 Missile traveling 22.925 meters in the same time it took for Lucy's vector to travel 1.905 kilometers, Lucy's vectors would have had to outstrip the missiles speed, and reach an unbelievable 249345 meters per second

Compared to the speed of sound at 331.5 m/s, Lucy's vectors would have traveled at MACH 752.17

I suppose we could get Screampaste in here to run the numbers if you guys want. He loves that shit (and is really good at it. shh! don't tell him i said that).

Edit: Though looking at it thatt last 'more accurrate' argument seems to rely on a awful amount of supposition. The others seem solid though.

Waaait someone just told me that Tetsuo in the manga created a big bang O.O...........could someone verify this ._.?

Damn, maybe we should actually read some of these manga's. 🙁

Wiki says it was a miniture big bang and that he's a continent buster.

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Tetsuo

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Lucy

forgot to post those earlier XD

Continent busting power is above what Lucy showed, as is lightspeed reflexes, if that is true.

Originally posted by Ban Mido
Waaait someone just told me that Tetsuo in the manga created a big bang O.O...........could someone verify this ._.?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm going off this post, the numbers seemed pretty legit. *shrugs*

First and foremost the vectors don't have mass, furthermore escape velocity is the velocity you get from integrating (adding together the infinitesimal vector-changes in potential). If something doesn't have mass it doesn't have a potential. So the concept is completely misunderstood and the number-pulling holds zero value. Also we're never given any clear time-frame and there's no sound in space (i.e. mach-n = 0 for all values of n in space).

Secondly, blocking bullets. Yes, Lucy's vectors could react to most riffle bullets (standard riffle-speed: 1,000 m/s, fastest riffle: 1,220 m/s). But that doesn't mean that they're faster than the bullets. I can easily avoid a car traveling at 120 km/h assuming that the distance between us are sufficient, but I'm not faster than 120 km/h.

Thirdly. As for being hit and then using her vectors to react. The vectors come from the heart, literally. So as soon as the vector extended it would be in the way of the bullet. Making the actual speed required: 0 m/s (assuming it's in the right direction) and not 250,000 m/s. Which also explains why she was hit in the face with a bullet at the beginning of the manga where she escaped.

These "calculations" are accomplished through number-stacking without any general understanding of what's to be calculated, or the manga itself. Using basic one-dimensional calculus, trying to describe a three-dimension (+ time) phenomena. Honestly, they're almost as bad as when "Red" didn't know the difference between degrees and radians, somehow thinking (if at all) that the perimeter of a circle was 180 times the diameter, rather than π times the diameter.

I could easily do a better detailed and more explanatory calculation making use of geometric symmetries. However her vector speed (for regular vectors) would fall in the 500 - 1,000 m/s range discounting acceleration.

For optimal calculatsions Quaternions (a four dimensional nummeric system without a negative axis) should be applied to avoid any potential infinites, essentially the same method applied in the programming of robotic arms in industries.

Why can't the syntax get the symbol "pi" right?

First and foremost the vectors don't have mass

I've never seen any evidence for this. I'm sure they need to have mass to be able to slice through people like that... If things without mass could do that we'd all be ****ed by light particles right? So why do you think they don't have mass? 🤨

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've never seen any evidence for this. I'm sure they need to have mass to be able to slice through people like that...

Originally posted by Nephthys
If things without mass could do that we'd all be ****ed by light particles right?

First an foremost, if they had mass the giant vectors of the end of the manga would kill her

They did. Or they were at least.

or at the very least destroy the ground beneath her

Its possible that the author just didn't think of that (its a pretty dumb manga) but you have to remember that Lucy basically takes the laws of physics behind the back of the shed regularly. She can levitate so its possible she was actively preventing this from happening by supporting her own weight.

Secondly the vectors don't always interact with matter (it can phase through matter).

Yet they aren't always intangible.

Basically Force = mass x acceleration. Without mass there wouldn't be any force, and the vectors have demonstrated massive amounts of force, like say cutting through, and I'm quoting the respect thread again, 'hundreds of meters of bedrock'. Heck, that instance caused a surrounding tidal wave.

Gamma rays can go straight through (pierce) your body.

Gamma rays are ****ing wierd though. O.o

Originally posted by Nephthys
They did. Or they were at least.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its possible that the author just didn't think of that (its a pretty dumb manga) but you have to remember that Lucy basically takes the laws of physics behind the back of the shed regularly. She can levitate so its possible she was actively preventing this from happening by supporting her own weight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yet they aren't always intangible.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Basically Force = mass x acceleration. Without mass there wouldn't be any force

Originally posted by Nephthys
and the vectors have demonstrated massive amounts of force, like say cutting through, and I'm quoting the respect thread again, 'hundreds of meters of bedrock'. Heck, that instance caused a surrounding tidal wave.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Gamma rays are ****ing wierd though. O.o