Originally posted by ushomefree
Precious metals can not be created out of thin air - there is a limited supply.
yes, but the value of that supply isn't intrinsic
the value of a gram of gold is based on no property in and of itself, but rather on the price of gold in the market, or in a monetary system based on it, some consensus about the spending power of a gram.
A state could still easily lower or raise that consensus, for the same arbitrary reasons seen in the manipulation of monetary currency.
Pretend canada has more metal resources than the states, and thus, in a metal standard, a more valuable dollar. We could still manipulate the value of a gram of that metal such that our dollar is worth less than yours, in terms of real spending power, and we would, because we would have the same financial incentive. currency can be manipulated regardless of how it is "backed"
this would simply cause international conflict over gold reserves, as it did when gold was the standard
Originally posted by ushomefree
No... I'm saying that governments around the world manipulate the money supply and interest rates to compete with precious metals - not the other way around. Fiat currency is based on nothing; precious metals have intrinsic value and is far more stable than currency notes. That's all I'm saying. You disagree with that?
No, not at all. It would force governments to live within their means. Having a money supply based on the amount of gold bullion in reserves, for example, acts as a regulator. The US and other countries that side stepped the gold standard simply wanted more freedom to spend. It's really that simple - nothing complicated about it.
Originally posted by ushomefree
No, not at all. It would force governments to live within their means. Having a money supply based on the amount of gold bullion in reserves, for example, acts as a regulator. The US and other countries that side stepped the gold standard simply wanted more freedom to spend. It's really that simple - nothing complicated about it.
but even with a gold standard, you could revalue your currency such that you could never pay back loans, or spend more than you have based on other nations evaluation of your stock
you act as if nations never had economic turmoil when there was a gold standard...?
I'm also sort of interested in what your thoughts on the prospects of a gold standard increasing international conflict over the resource?
Originally posted by ushomefree
No, not at all. It would force governments to live within their means. Having a money supply based on the amount of gold bullion in reserves, for example, acts as a regulator. The US and other countries that side stepped the gold standard simply wanted more freedom to spend. It's really that simple - nothing complicated about it.
Originally posted by inimalistbut even with a gold standard, you could revalue your currency such that you could never pay back loans, or spend more than you have based on other nations evaluation of your stock
you act as if nations never had economic turmoil when there was a gold standard...?
I'm also sort of interested in what your thoughts on the prospects of a gold standard increasing international conflict over the resource?
First, it's impossible to "revalue" any given currency. All that can be done is manipulation through its supply and interest rates attached to loans, T-Bills and the like. We don't need to conduct a massive research project to confirm this. Ask yourself one thing: Have prices in commodities risen or dropped? Obviously, prices have risen. End of story.
Second, even under a gold standard, economic hardships are guaranteed to occur, just not to the degree that they are today. Governments would be more accountable. The US government is 14+ trillion dollars in debt, and this doesn't include unfunded liabilities like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security - something to the tune of 75 trillion dollars. And let us not forget Obama care set to become law in 2014. Yep... insanity!
And lastly, the plight over precious metals will simply be won over nations with the strongest currency. I think it's that simple, but I could be wrong. For example, China will have the capacity to purchase more precious metal reserves than the US. And what are we going to do about it? Go to war? I think not.
Originally posted by ushomefreeBy chance, are you a member of NIA?
First, it's impossible to "revalue" any given currency. All that can be done is manipulation through its supply and interest rates attached to loans, T-Bills and the like. We don't need to conduct a massive research project to confirm this. Ask yourself one thing: Have prices in commodities risen or dropped? Obviously, prices have risen. End of story.Second, even under a gold standard, economic hardships are guaranteed to occur, just not to the degree that they are today. Governments would be more accountable. The US government is 14+ trillion dollars in debt, and this doesn't include unfunded liabilities like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security - something to the tune of 75 trillion dollars. And let us not forget Obama care set to become law in 2014. Yep... insanity!
And lastly, the plight over precious metals will simply be won over nations with the strongest currency. I think it's that simple, but I could be wrong. For example, China will have the capacity to purchase more precious metal reserves than the US. And what are we going to do about it? Go to war? I think not.
Yes, I am. If your thinking about becoming a member, don't waist your time. You could join to support them, but your not going to get more access to the site or have special privileges than that of non subscribers. All these guys do is talk about economics. I submitted a question to them, but I had to sign up in order to do so. And my question was answered; it was cool.
In any case, I have a lot of respect for NIA. Others share my enthusiasm. NIA has grown by leaps and bounds since I first ran into them. The president of NIA - Gerard Adams - was recently on prime time television about 3 months ago. Check out the interview below (if your interested). He's just a young, educated man with a passion in economics.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
To avoid the revaluing of precious metals, you'd probably need to make them into physical currency. Which would be dumb.
or have a single global currency
Originally posted by ushomefree
First, it's impossible to "revalue" any given currency. All that can be done is manipulation through its supply and interest rates attached to loans, T-Bills and the like. We don't need to conduct a massive research project to confirm this. Ask yourself one thing: Have prices in commodities risen or dropped? Obviously, prices have risen. End of story.
so what is the non-arbitrary value of gold in terms of buying power?
Originally posted by ushomefree
Second, even under a gold standard, economic hardships are guaranteed to occur, just not to the degree that they are today. Governments would be more accountable. The US government is 14+ trillion dollars in debt, and this doesn't include unfunded liabilities like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security - something to the tune of 75 trillion dollars. And let us not forget Obama care set to become law in 2014. Yep... insanity!
the stuff that is blatantly incorrect is covered in the video, essentially, social security runs a surpluss in the tillions, and is projected to actually increase in such in the future:
otherwise, how would a new valuation on money get rid of the debt or stop overspending? Unless, as was suggested, you are literally making the money out of gold, or, ya, we adopt a global currency.
Originally posted by ushomefree
And lastly, the plight over precious metals will simply be won over nations with the strongest currency. I think it's that simple, but I could be wrong. For example, China will have the capacity to purchase more precious metal reserves than the US. And what are we going to do about it? Go to war? I think not.
but America already considers things like oil as a strategic resource that it assumes it owns and will go to war over, or support terrible regiemes because of. How would gold not become the exact same? It has already happened, look how the world was cut up during colonialism due specificially to trying to expand trade and increase the coffers, resource exploitation included.
Originally posted by inimalistso what is the non-arbitrary value of gold in terms of buying power?
I have no clue, but to attempt to answer your question, I'll say this: less than a year ago, the price of an ounce of gold was $800. Today, it is $1300+. This is evidence of the dollar losing it's value (purchasing power).
Originally posted by inimalistthe stuff that is blatantly incorrect is covered in the video, essentially, social security runs a surpluss in the tillions, and is projected to actually increase in such in the future
The figures that I presented over Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are not conjured. You can view the postings for yourself here. They are located at the bottom of the page. In fact, unfunded liabilities equate to 100+ trillion dollars. Deficits at this level are unsustainable, and all you need is a basic understanding of mathematics to understand this. The reason the government is attempting to raise the age eligibility on Social Security - if they haven't already - is because the government can't afford it, not because they have surpluses. Think!
Originally posted by inimalistbut America already considers things like oil as a strategic resource that it assumes it owns and will go to war over, or support terrible regiemes because of. How would gold not become the exact same? It has already happened, look how the world was cut up during colonialism due specificially to trying to expand trade and increase the coffers, resource exploitation included.
You assume way, way too much. Nations rise and fall; this is a historical fact. America is not what it used to be and the world is slowly turning it's back on our country. America has lost it's charm, thanks to debt and the inflation of our currency, for one. China, Russia and Saudi Arabia (as we speak) are confiding in ways to diversify away from the dollar. This of course, is not a good thing, but we're good to go on Social Security, right? Sorry - just having a little fun.
Let me get this straight, we're the number one debtor nation in the world, with virtually no manufacturing base and export deficits, but we're supposed to tackle China during an economic war. Are you out of your mind?! America is flat broke. If China wanted, they could collapse the US economy over night. All they'd have to do is demand payment on their T-Bills.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
To avoid the revaluing of precious metals, you'd probably need to make them into physical currency. Which would be dumb.
No, bank notes work just fine that way because that's how that system is supposed to work. The "dollar" would represent an exact amount of gold that backs that dollar.
And one wonders why people are leaving the US left and right. I've been reading about all this for some time, but lately it's been getting pretty scary.
We're going to be a 3rd World country.
I remember reading about Great Britain's world currency power until the US Dollar became the World Currency and it devastated their economy. Is what I read true? I think it happened just after WWII If what I read about it was true, it was horrible.
Just released in the news today: IMF Calls for Dollar Alternative. The implications of this is staggering.
The IMF wants to replace it. If I understood the news article correctly, the IMF - because the dollar is unstable - wants to diversify away from the dollar using a basket of other currencies known as Special Drawing Rights (SDRs). In addition, the IMF wants to introduce SDR bonds to diversify away from US T-bills. The news article also explained that SDRs could be used in pricing commodities like oil and gold - no longer the dollar.
I don't know the intricate details behind such proposals, but I do know enough to understand that this is not good for America. Governments and banking institutions around the world are simply growing wary and concerned over the dollar thanks to our corrupt, spineless politicians in Washington. This is why the majority of Americans wanted nothing to with federal bailouts, massive spending packages and additional social programs like Universal Health Care. We need to stabilize the dollar immediately and regain the world's confidence in the dollar before it is too late.