IF you were never going to get caught, would you do IT?

Head hunters, canibals etc, have no empathy for the people they eat.....

Originally posted by red g jacks
i think empathy plays a vital role in morality, i.e. the golden rule, but in my mind self preservation is every bit as important as empathy

we find certain things 'wrong' not only because we feel bad for the victim, but because we project the idea of their suffering onto ourselves in the act of empathy. hence do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself.

we don't want murder because we don't want to be murdered. we don't want theft because we don't want to be stolen from. the empathy arises from the common interests of most people.

but we might not find some murders repulsive. we might not find some acts of theft repulsive. maybe instead we'll empathize with the murderers or the thieves in certain instances. most of us will still suggest that what they did was technically wrong, and that they should accept punishment.

i think this is because overall, self preservation trumps empathy in the moral equation. breeches of proper conduct cannot be condoned even if the reasons behind the crime might draw more empathy than the victim's suffering.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Do you think parents would really sacrifice themselves to save their children or is that something that they would like to believe that they would do, but wouldn't if push came to shove? I ask because I feel that human compassion will trump self preservation but the situation doesn't truly present itself regularly enough for me to really know the answer. Myself I would risk death to save my wife or son and trade places with either one's execution to save their lives. I'm only one guy though and I wonder if other humans would negate self-preservation. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by ThAnus_ofTITass
Head hunters, canibals etc, have no empathy for the people they eat.....

I already think you're a little unique. 😮‍💨

Rand covers this so well, I feel

for parents to save their children, it is often within their own person self-/survival-interest. Many people legitimatly feel they couldn't go on after the loss of their child, and saving them might be motivated by the desire to avoid that personal loss.

I don't think thats all there is to it, just a different perspective

Originally posted by 753
but saving your offspring is more than compassion, it's an instinct to preserve the lineage. I think it easily trumps self-preservation among most people we'd call balanced or good parents.

Your wife or lover 😮 is not your offspring. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by inimalist
Rand covers this so well, I feel

for parents to save their children, it is often within their own person self-/survival-interest. Many people legitimatly feel they couldn't go on after the loss of their child, and saving them might be motivated by the desire to avoid that personal loss.

I don't think thats all there is to it, just a different perspective

Originally posted by The MISTER
The self preservation instinct is supposed to be the strongest of all. Humans have negated it seemingly more so than any other animal.

yes, all animals are unique in their own ways, the social context of the human condition has created things like self-sacrifice over time

Originally posted by The MISTER
I see what you are saying about fearing life after having allowed the death of a child but instinct is supposed to reign supreme having supposedly been the foundation of all actions. 😮‍💨

I wouldn't say instinct is the basis of all our actions, unless you have a hugely broad definition of "instincts"

Originally posted by The MISTER
They choose who they will have empathy for just as every one else does. The eating of other people is more than likely a part of religious tradition to them and thus their negative emotions about their actions are not socially acceptable. I have no emotions for the animals I eat but I still empathize with the ones that are alive. The first animal that I see engaged in intelligent conversation of some sort will be the first animal I put on the "Do not eat" list. If you would like to eat some human flesh then they have a lot at the hospital. You could get a job there and get hooked up with fresh amputations. If you did get caught eating human though people would judge you. 🤣

I already think you're a little unique. 😮‍💨

Exactly they choose based on their socialisation and learnt morality.

I am indeed unique as are we all ;-)

Originally posted by The MISTER
The self preservation instinct is supposed to be the strongest of all.

Humans have negated it seemingly more so than any other animal. I see what you are saying about fearing life after having allowed the death of a child but instinct is supposed to reign supreme having supposedly been the foundation of all actions. 😮‍💨 [/B]

Originally posted by 753
not necessarily a lot of animals will sacrifice their lifes so their offspring lives on, not just by risking themselves to protect or provide for them, but there are species in which the parent will literally self-destruct to feed its offspring, often with its own body.

The old biological imperitive...... Many parents in species will also eat their kids to survive.... What's your point?

Originally posted by ThAnus_ofTITass
The old biological imperitive...... Many parents in species will also eat their kids to survive.... What's your point?

while a lot of parents will their opffsprong when under certain conditions, this is generally tied to stress reactions and not to an actual need for food that they can't satisfy any other way.

Originally posted by 753

while a lot of parents will their opffsprong when under certain conditions, this is generally tied to stress reactions and not to an actual need for food that they can't satisfy any other way.

Parents will what? What parents? Come on 753 make yourself appear educated at least.

Originally posted by ThAnus_ofTITass
Parents will what? What parents? Come on 753 make yourself appear educated at least.

The old biological imperitive...... Many parents in species will also eat their kids to survive.... What's your point?

Originally posted by 753
facepalm

what parents do you think? Can't you keep up with the conversation? What am I saying, of course you can't, you couldn't understand my reply to the mister's post, even though it was self-explanatory.

It wasn't self expalnatory at all, it was ambiguous at best 753. Anyway, let's move on. I did not mean to upset you, I hope you're O.K.

I'll be alright eventually

Originally posted by 753
I'll be alright eventually

Time is a great healer ;-) and on the internet a minute is almost a lifetime. :-)

🤘

Originally posted by 753
the point as should have been obvious is that humans have not negated self-preservation instinct in a unique manner among animals.

while a lot of parents will their opffsprong when under certain conditions, this is generally tied to stress reactions and not to an actual need for food that they can't satisfy any other way.

I consider suicide a uniquely human way of negating self preservation.

Originally posted by The MISTER
I consider suicide a uniquely human way of negating self preservation.

Originally posted by 753
I guess that one is indeed unique to humans. Durkheim spoke of two types of suicide: altruistic and selfish. altruistic suicide is self-sacrifice for others, martyrdom, etc and animals in lots of species pull this kind of self-destruction to protect ofsspring, brethren, the colony, etc. but the selfish type does seem to be absent.

I don't see how we can apply altruism and selfishness to most animals.