Originally posted by Robtard
I'm not up to date on The Punisher's coming and goings, but hasn't he had a few innocent deaths at his hands due to his uber-violence against criminals?Not sure that's better for the populace than Batman's strict no-killing code.
Good point, Punisher's work never seems to have any significant effect on crime while Batman has saved the whole planet several times.
Originally posted by The MISTER
So are crossbows but what superpowers have carrying guns as part of their culture? Americans have stiffer penalties for killing people because killing is quite a large part of our culture and we have been so desensitized.
it is mandatory for adult males in switzerland to own loaded pistols or assault rifles
they have so little gun crime that statistics aren't really kept
Yes they are, and Switzerland's gun homicide rate is higher than a lot of countries in Western Europe, which contrasts with their low general homicide rate. The reason for the discrepancy is the availability of guns. Switzerland is increasingly worried about gun crime lately. In fact they only just had a huge debate on the issue this year, though they have decided against more restrictions for now- but it's still being put for referendum soon. There's a definite concern.
Originally posted by Bardock42Well, that's the thing though isn't it? Everyone in Batman's universe is pretty idiotic. That's kind of why he gets beef for not being smarter. Aside from the obvious plot induced stupidity, you'd think that he would be less trusting of his oh so ridiculously flawed government.
In case of the Joker you can blame any police officer or any employee of Arkham just as much as Batman. It's perfectly fine for Batman to choose not to kill. Sure he picks and chooses the laws to follow, but I don't see why that is in itself worse than following no laws or all laws.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Well, that's the thing though isn't it? Everyone in Batman's universe is pretty idiotic. That's kind of why he gets beef for not being smarter. Aside from the obvious plot induced stupidity, you'd think that he would be less trusting of his oh so ridiculously flawed government.
I don't think he's very trusting of it. However he has set for himself the limit not to actively take someone's lives.
Though perhaps we shouldn't discuss it in this thread necessarily.
Originally posted by RobtardAs I understand it, neither 616 nor max punisher have ever killed civilians. He's like the Hulk, bystanders are never harmed.
I'm not up to date on The Punisher's coming and goings, but hasn't he had a few innocent deaths at his hands due to his uber-violence against criminals?Not sure that's better for the populace than Batman's strict no-killing code.
max punisher recently put a gun to his own head when he mistakenly thought he had accidentaly killed a girl.
Originally posted by dadudemonthis post doesn't even manage to pull some shock value
I can just picture him now, screaming "JUSTICE" when The Joker is busted out of prison, for the twelve millionth time. Then he screams "SWWWWEEEET VICTORY OF JUSTICE! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" when he stumbles upon the mutilated bodies of Joker's the obvious "Justice Served" at the hands of Batman.That, or Batman whispers into the victim's ear (which is no longer attached to the head of the body), "eat my justice, bitches. Tastes good, doesn't it?"
Originally posted by 753
As I understand it, neither 616 nor max punisher have ever killed civilians. He's like the Hulk, bystanders are never harmed.max punisher recently put a gun to his own head when he mistakenly thought he had accidentaly killed a girl.
Max Punisher started sucking after Ennis stopped writing it, so I stopped reading it, has that changed?
Originally posted by inimalist
it is mandatory for adult males in switzerland to own loaded pistols or assault riflesthey have so little gun crime that statistics aren't really kept
The UN found that 35% of homocides in Switzerland and commited using guns that that their total rate of homocide was higher than in the UK, Germany and Ukraine.
That analysis also tends to ignore that the Swiss model isn't simple "everyone has to own a gun" it is "everyone has to join the army and have a gun".
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The UN found that 35% of homocides in Switzerland and commited using guns that that their total rate of homocide was higher than in the UK, Germany and Ukraine.
really? when did they do that? I remember seeing stuff from the BBC only a few years ago saying that the only gun related stat that neared other nations was that of suicide...
though, now that I'm thinking about it, they may have only been comparing to the Americans...
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That analysis also tends to ignore that the Swiss model isn't simple "everyone has to own a gun" it is "everyone has to join the army and have a gun".
I didn't mean to imply the social contexts were the same
Originally posted by 753
It's awesome now. they've relaunched it as punishermax. the tenth issue should be already out.
it lacks a certain "je-ne-sais-qais" compared to the Ennis MAX I find, but it is good
Originally posted by 753
Yeah I got it. I don't agree with most superheores perceptions of justice either. That wasn't what I was getting at.
What you were getting at was obvious and addressed already in my post.
But, I'll address your point even more directly:
The day that I believe I can shock an adult (who is well versed in movies, comics, and books) on a movie message board with a very brief description of some violence, is the day I have gotten Alzheimers.
Originally posted by inimalistIt's less politicized, true, and i miss the echoes of the cold war angle. But I found it psychologically richer and am digging the redesign of the 616 characters. Kingpin and specially Bullseye turned out great.
really? when did they do that? I remember seeing stuff from the BBC only a few years ago saying that the only gun related stat that neared other nations was that of suicide...though, now that I'm thinking about it, they may have only been comparing to the Americans...
I didn't mean to imply the social contexts were the same
it lacks a certain "je-ne-sais-qais" compared to the Ennis MAX I find, but it is good
Besides, the Ennis arc had succefully run its course as it explored the intertwining of crime and politics and the often criminal nature of politics themselves. The final arc also completed a theme Ennis began early by going through each of the most notorious international criminal networks operating in the usa - in a way, each presenting an ethnicity composing the american population - and wrapped it up with an all american wasp criminal gang, the establishment itself. If he had continued it I think quality would begin suffering.
Originally posted by 753
It's less politicized, true, and i miss the echoes of the cold war angle. But I found it psychologically richer and am digging the redesign of the 616 characters. Kingpin and specially Bullseye turned out great.Besides, the Ennis arc had succefully run its course as it explored the intertwining of crime and politics and the often criminal nature of politics themselves. The final arc also completed a theme Ennis began early by going through each of the most notorious international criminal networks operating in the usa - in a way, each presenting an ethnicity composing the american population - and wrapped it up with an all american wasp criminal gang, the establishment itself. If he had continued it I think quality would begin suffering.
I've only read a couple of the new MAX issues, "happy endings" I think was one that I wasn't overly impressed with, so I will have to check it out (I dont even know if happy endings was part of the series proper, or just a one-shot in the MAX title).
I agree with what you are saying about Ennis though. I generally prefer mini-series and one shot stories, because they do have a specific goal in mind, and the sort of monthly-serial style does tend to "force" writers to come up with less inspired stuff. I'm not saying he should have been kept on to keep writing it, just that it has set a high standard for other Punisher work.
I liked happy endings, specially the ending. that was a one-shot though. every month they're releasing a one-shot that develops some random character in the periphery of the punisher universe and how he impacts their lives.
the actual max series was relaunched as maxpunisher and started with the introduction of wilson fisk as the would be kingpin. Bullseye has also been redesigned for the series, the concept is perfect.
Originally posted by inimalist
really? when did they do that? I remember seeing stuff from the BBC only a few years ago saying that the only gun related stat that neared other nations was that of suicide...though, now that I'm thinking about it, they may have only been comparing to the Americans.
Way back in 2000.
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sc.pdf
Completely destroys the platitude that "an armed society is a polite society" right along with the notion that guns cause crime/murder. There seems to be very little correlation.