Gorilla Grodd vs Wolverine

Started by ExodusCloak10 pages
Originally posted by King Castle
he did it twice in that story arc the second time was when he was standing outside the japanese private club.. when he was being followed by the shield agents.. after his talk with emma he went inside to the bathroom changed clothes and went underground losing his tail.

Here's another one...well not exactly. She should start charging.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Airport Assistance

Claws #1
(October 2006)

(Writer: Jimmy Palmiotti, Artist: Joseph Michael Linsner

Claws #3
(December 2006)

(Writer: Jimmy Palmiotti, Artist: Joseph Michael Linsner

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Here's another one...well not exactly. She should start charging.
that one is okay but the one i referenced had narration specifically stating what logan was doing so ppl cant misconstrued his concentration for constipation.
but that one is okay.

also logan's empathic ability/nature has allowed him to pick up the pain of his team members psionic pain or fear... even jubilee has a link to wolverine allowing her to feel Logan's pain resistance caused by Jean grey's psionic feedback strengthening logan's/Jubilee link who was in the room no one but jubes felt it even though ppl were in the room.

nice edit exodus no way ppl can say he didnt do that.

Originally posted by King Castle
and all missing telepathic resistance mental block and training.. a beserker emotional mind is harder to control then an animal unaware of the impending mental manipulation.

the only similar thing they have with Wolverine is that they have basic animal instincts not his mental implants, mental scarring, mental training or lvl 9 psi blocks or even them being enraged with berseker fury..

😬

impressive that Gorilla Grodd ape link allowed him to manipulate his fellow apes, as impressive as Lizards and vermin's own TP but how that working similarly to logan doesnt translate the same to manipulating Wolverine.

nice attempt to slip the ape link passed us.

The fact that they are apes has nothing to do with it. Controlling local apes wasn't the exciting part. I guess you missed the names I dropped in my post. They are all highly developed, sentient beings with high levels of intelligence and Grodd summoned them from opposite ends of the globe simultaneously while also incapacitating SWAMP THING.

Credit to Galan for the scans. Swamp Thing's mind and cognition are limited by his imagination. His conscious can expand and permeate throughout the universe on a whim. If Grodd can manipulate the spiritual embodiment of all plantlife, he shouldn't have a problem with Logan.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind2.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind3.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind4.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind5.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind6.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind7.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind8.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind9.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind10.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind11.jpg

and you pulled an old school feat, which i already stated old school grodd would screw logan over.

having said that i also said that the current depiction of grodd wouldnt b/c his power lvl is no longer depicted that high.

Originally posted by King Castle
that one is okay but the one i referenced had narration specifically stating what logan was doing so ppl cant misconstrued his concentration for constipation.
but that one is okay.

also logan's empathic ability/nature has allowed him to pick up the pain of his team members psionic pain or fear... even jubilee has a link to wolverine allowing her to feel Logan's pain resistance caused by Jean creating a psionic feedback linking Jubilee who was in the room and no one else.

nice edit exodus no way ppl can say he didnt do that.

Do you know that costume Wolverine stole off the Imperial Guard member Fang in Uncanny X-Men #107? Is there an explanation as to why he kept it (Iron First v1 #14) apart from Claremont just being weird? And to make it worse, X-23 went on to use that costume (Uncanny X-Men #450).

it was given to him as an honorary member of their feral race for being a bad@$$ warrior. irrc.

X-23 wearing made absolutely no sense.. she shouldnt have known about it period. that's basically was a writer decision imo.. same way writers choose the write the batsuit.

It's not like these power levels aren't in continuity. He's continually given J'onn trouble and trumped Aquaman's tp with ease (happened pre-crisis, but was referenced in a flashback post-crisis).

I'm not really sure what omnipotent entity Grodd had to defeat yesterday in order to be able to take on the almighty Wolverine.

Originally posted by Konton
I'm not really sure what omnipotent entity Grodd had to defeat yesterday in order to be able to take on the almighty Wolverine.

😛

Originally posted by Konton
It's not like these power levels aren't in continuity. He's continually given J'onn trouble and trumped Aquaman's tp with ease (happened pre-crisis, but was referenced in a flashback post-crisis).

I'm not really sure what omnipotent entity Grodd had to defeat yesterday in order to be able to take on the almighty Wolverine.

none, if the character was consistent they can reference whatever they want. some reference the DC/MU crossover it doesnt make cannon.. marvel has reference house of M doesnt mean the character depiction is accurate..

you want to prove Grodd is the same as he was prior to the universal retcons to the DCU have him repeat the feat and show equal power lvl and battling someone like Martian Manhunter in telepathic battle.. not telepathically attack him by surprise but out right challenge someone of his lvl..

hard to do since he is dead maybe maxima DCU characters are so Skewed and inconsistent that Aquaman's powers to control the person's fish brain is not the same as Xavier or X-man or emma frost telephathically controlling a person making see things fending off otehr TP'ers.

the attempt to use Aquaman to accredit Grodd is vague b/c AM mental defenses and abilities are not legit telepathy.

yes, AM can bypass certain telepath and cause pain seizures doesnt mean he can battle on the astral plane with the likes of Manchester black or access his memories turn him into a vegetable mind wipe him. hell, Gypsy has better overall legitimate telepathy then grodd and AM..

again you have to show the recent character at least within the 90's to now of grodds replicating and equaling Emma's power level..

logan doesnt have to do this since marvel doesnt retcon its history or screws character power lvl as bad as DCU and even then we provide past present feats overlapping one another to make a case for him to show his feats from the 80's match the 90's and even today.

so far the current grodd has psi bolted Flash which he recovered immediately only knocking him on his @$$... telepathically instilled fear in nightwing and mental illusion during battle and also randomly broadcasted rage fear to ppl..

that really isnt that impressive for the modern almight grodd. nor equal to his classic power lvl.

have you noticed when a character undergoes changes without explanation and are written differently for years we differantiate between classic version of the character and how he is currently written?

which is why we say classic Thor or Classic Hulk or Classic Herc or Classic jugg or Classic etc etc...

Originally posted by King Castle
none, if the character was consistent they can reference whatever they want. some reference the DC/MU crossover it doesnt make cannon.. marvel has reference house of M doesnt mean the character depiction is accurate..

you want to prove Grodd is the same as he was prior to the universal retcons to the DCU have him repeat the feat and show equal power lvl and battling someone like Martian Manhunter in telepathic battle.. not telepathically attack him by surprise but out right challenge someone of his lvl..

hard to do since he is dead maybe maxima DCU characters are so Skewed and inconsistent that Aquaman's powers to control the person's fish brain is not the same as Xavier or X-man or emma frost telephathically controlling a person making see things fending off otehr TP'ers.

the attempt to use Aquaman to accredit Grodd is vague b/c AM mental defenses and abilities are not legit telepathy.

yes, AM can bypass certain telepath and cause pain seizures doesnt mean he can battle on the astral plane with the likes of Manchester black or access his memories turn him into a vegetable mind wipe him. hell, Gypsy has better overall legitimate telepathy then grodd and AM..

again you have to show the recent character at least within the 90's to now of grodds replicating and equaling Emma's power level..

logan doesnt have to do this since marvel doesnt retcon its history or screws character power lvl as bad as DCU and even then we provide past present feats overlapping one another to make a case for him to show his feats from the 80's match the 90's and even today.

so far the current grodd has psi bolted Flash which he recovered immediately only knocking him on his @$$... telepathically instilled fear in nightwing and mental illusion during battle and also randomly broadcasted rage fear to ppl..

that really isnt that impressive for the modern almight grodd. nor equal to his classic power lvl.

have you noticed when a character undergoes changes without explanation and are written differently for years we differantiate between classic version of the character and how he is currently written?

which is why we say classic Thor or Classic Hulk or Classic Herc or Classic jugg or Classic etc etc...

I can't... I can't even.
Marvel doesn't retcon? wha-?
Gypsy has better tp than Grod?
I'm going over to comicvine to find some sensible conversation.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Why is tide assuming the mental powers will work? Wolverine does not have a level 9 tp blocker or anything........

also beast is agile and fast, but that ment shit when he fought a serous wolverine.

(Sorry for late response, but this page sort of blew up since I posted)

Because, as already stated/cited by others, Grodd's mental powers also includes TK, not just TP/illusions. I doubt Grodd can dominate/directly manipulate Logan -- that is an obtuse way of looking at TP -- but rather he could likely get intuition/insight into Logan's imminent actions, and/or can use his TK offensively/defensively, in *addition* to being much stronger than Logan, as well as fast enough and durable enough to evade/tank some hits, giving him time to utilize his abilities.

*That* was my point... (granted, I didn't elaborate on that... but I also figured that anyone reading the post would know enough about Grodd to know that there is alot more to him than just super-strength and intellect: he also has formidable telepathic abilities, moderate/medium TK powers, and the cunning to use them effectively. Disclaimer: Grodd also has an arrogant streak, and will often underestimate some foes... but I doubt he will do that with Logan in a *Forum* context; it does count as a situational weakness, but the very fact that Logan *is* a "hard-read", will make it more likely than not that Grodd will be smart about fighting him...).

Originally posted by Konton
I can't... I can't even.
Marvel doesn't retcon? wha-?
Gypsy has better tp than Grod?
I'm going over to comicvine to find some sensible conversation.

I think he means they don't do massive reconnt of there entire universe, like DC does.

then go no one is stopping you.

Gypsy actually entered Desepero's mind granted at the time it was controlled by L'Ron but she actually astral projected.

like i said classic grodd beats Wolverine current grodd hasnt shown anything to suggest he can bypass logan's telepathy.

perhaps i should clarify my stance in the last 20 yrs grodd hasnt shown the same power as his classic self. not on the flash not on Nightwing and cheap shotting a fellow telepath doesnt mean he is equal to one.
AM ko'ing MM doesnt mean he is as powerful or as skill as MM.. no more then Psylocke ko'ing Xavier with her psy blade or Sabe being a telepath b/c he tanked psylockes psi blade.

show legitimate telepathic feat that surpasses Wolverine's current mental resistance..... show grodd able to ko some one like logan who has TP mind blocks in mid battle..

for gawds sake at least show him being equal to manchester black in telepathic feats.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I think he means they don't do massive reconnt of there entire universe, like DC does.

I agree -- I think that is what he was trying to say... he just might have wanted to phrase/structure his responses a little better... (his "self-editing" might need some work, so to speak...)

However, where DC does uber-resets, Marvel does incremental/situational/"shyt just sorta happens" continuity retcons/ alterations... Thematically different, but overall really is just six of one, half-dozen of the other...

Originally posted by tideoftime
I agree -- I think that is what he was trying to say... he just might have wanted to phrase/structure his responses a little better... (his "self-editing" might need some work, so to speak...)

However, where DC does uber-resets, Marvel does incremental/situational/"shyt just sorta happens" continuity retcons/ alterations... Thematically different, but overall really is just six of one, half-dozen of the other...

sorry, i am on some stimulants and it kinda shows on screen. 😮

tryin to stay awake is all..

Originally posted by tideoftime
(Sorry for late response, but this page sort of blew up since I posted)

Because, as already stated/cited by others, Grodd's mental powers also includes TK, not just TP/illusions. I doubt Grodd can dominate/directly manipulate Logan -- that is an obtuse way of looking at TP -- but rather he could likely get intuition/insight into Logan's imminent actions, and/or can use his TK offensively/defensively, in *addition* to being much stronger than Logan, as well as fast enough and durable enough to evade/tank some hits, giving him time to utilize his abilities.

*That* was my point... (granted, I didn't elaborate on that... but I also figured that anyone reading the post would know enough about Grodd to know that there is alot more to him than just super-strength and intellect: he also has formidable telepathic abilities, moderate/medium TK powers, and the cunning to use them effectively. Disclaimer: Grodd also has an arrogant streak, and will often underestimate some foes... but I doubt he will do that with Logan in a *Forum* context; it does count as a situational weakness, but the very fact that Logan *is* a "hard-read", will make it more likely than not that Grodd will be smart about fighting him...).

now this is a legitimate response and is something we can talk about taking into account not just his TP but his other attributes and acknowledging grodds discrepancy.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I think he means they don't do massive reconnt of there entire universe, like DC does.
that's what i meant.

😉 👆

Originally posted by Konton
The fact that they are apes has nothing to do with it. Controlling local apes wasn't the exciting part. I guess you missed the names I dropped in my post. They are all highly developed, sentient beings with high levels of intelligence and Grodd summoned them from opposite ends of the globe simultaneously while also incapacitating SWAMP THING.

Credit to Galan for the scans. Swamp Thing's mind and cognition are limited by his imagination. His conscious can expand and permeate throughout the universe on a whim. If Grodd can manipulate the spiritual embodiment of all plantlife, he shouldn't have a problem with Logan.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind2.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind3.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind4.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind5.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind6.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind7.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind8.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind9.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind10.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind11.jpg

Agreed. MM even mentioned that Grodd was his peer. Grodd wins.

Originally posted by Konton
I can't... I can't even.
Marvel doesn't retcon? wha-?
Gypsy has better tp than Grod?
I'm going over to comicvine to find some sensible conversation.
you'll be disapointed

pretty sure we agreed classic grodd is goin to screw logan over with his classic power levels care to show anything recent?

perhaps we should all start using Wolverine in god mode when he has access to higher power b/c that's what ppl are doing here with grodd.

show current grodd and his abilities the same way we show and are using current wolverine and his abilities only going back to show it is consistent to his earlier appearances.

perhaps from now on we can use Aquaman who get's manhandled by Batman as the current depiction of the character?

or maybe use the time Vandal Savage screwed and pawned MM in mental combat as a showing of his telepathy and being a high end telepath himself..

maybe use batman from the 80's and early 90's when he had more human like feats rather then his current depiction..

use his oldschool feats and have him get smoked by current version of Red Robin?

I can't believe people think a guy that gets beaten by regular bullets beats Wolverine. 😂

Sir! i said Sir!!

he wasnt Ko'ed by Batman, he was just suffering from narcolypsy...
batman
Grodd would be damned if he lost to Bat's fighting bats and his own Narcolypsy is the reason he lost, two fights at different fronts..

same reason NW can put up a fight against Grodd..mhmm