prequel haters

Ben was Luke's mentor... the only one that could teach him to become 'a Jedi like his father'. Losing him means that desire cannot be fulfilled... It's not that hard.

Originally posted by dadudemon
T"leading person in any cause or contest"

There it is, in your own quote: in a cause or contest! What is Anakin's cause? Or contest?

If it's becoming the greatest Jedi then I have pointed out many times now that the many conflict situations in the PT have no effect or consequence for his cause.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, we shouldn't expect such a simplistic story in this day and age. Often, the most popular are those that have semi-complex plots and multiple character to 'root for.'

The complexity of the PT is not the problem. I like complex films. My problem is that the PT is very poor at transferring the complexity and it's meaning.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's possible that you're making another point that I was missing. Maybe you mean to say that those obstacles are not as "awesome" of obstacles as the ones from the OT? That makes more sense. Is that what you're trying to say?

Oh no, these 'obstacles' are quite awesome. The PT has some very awesome moments. But they don't have any effect on Anakin's cause. That is my argument. Well, they do have an effect, it makes him grumpy and angry and sad and distraught... but that is one predictable, continuous movement, as you argued your self. So it is boring, his personality is shallow... all events have the same effect on him...

Originally posted by dadudemon
Man, it would be so much faster if we could stand in front of podiums and talk about this in front of a million star wars fans.

I'm pretty sure there are also many SW fans who are equally disappointed in the PT.

But maybe you mean to say:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Man, it would be so much faster if we could stand in front of podiums and talk about this in front of a million star wars fans under the age of ten.

I can NOT believe you fools are still arguing this.

What else should we be doing? 😉

The prequels sucked. They jigsawed between emotionally stunted and annoyingly over-emotional. Over-complex and over-kiddy. Mind-numbingly stupid and borderline retarded. I realise those last two aren't opposite but...... yeah.

I don't know why you guys are bothering to compare the two trilogies really. The prequels just failed. Comparisons aren't going to stop that from being true. The main difference is that while Luke matures over 3 full movies of character development from a naive teenager filled with wanderlust to a mature man, Anakin goes from a sitcom-esque, overly cheerful little shit to a whiney little ***** to an angry whiney little *****. Luke is likeable. Anakin is always completely loathsome. The entire point of the prequels was to highlight the tragedy of Anakins fall to the darkside. Instead it just annoyed and pissed us off because a character that we once loved and feared was brought low by the horrifyingly bad storytelling present in the PT. How are we supposed to feel bad about a character with no good qualities whatsoever? The PT was a character piece, and as a character piece it utterly failed.

Likeabilty sure is not Anakin's thing.

For me I felt bad for Anakin in the end. He did everything he could to save padme after having his dreams of loosing his mother and he's the one who ended up killing her. For me the movies were good and I did feel something for the characters.

Originally posted by darthmaul1
For me the movies were good and I did feel something for the characters.

Me too actually, altho I still think the OT was better. 😉

Originally posted by darthmaul1
Ok then, so how does Luke loosing Ben hold him back he still becomes a Jedi.
For me with anakin, almost everything that affected him affected him emotionally and furthered his journey down the dark side.

Indeed. Ben wasn't lost "at all" and appeared to luke as a ghost.

In fact, I do not see why Obi just didn't teach Luke, himself, on some far away planet. I guess it's possible that Yoda is the far better Jedi instructor. 😆

Yeah, if Obi-Wan could manifest himself as a ghost, he might as well have trained Luke instead of Yoda.

Oh my, guess this is a big OT plot hole that should be second guessed to death. 😄

Ya know, cause Obi-Wan did say, "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." So wouldn't he now be "beyond Yoda" at this point? Hang on...gotta go make a 9 part Youtube episode on this argument and start second guessing everything to death.

I'll let you all know when the video is complete.........which will be probably never. 🙂

I think the movie suggests there are limits to what ghosts can do. Ben said it himself: "When you chose to face Vader, i cannot interfere." Why? He was used to take on Sith lords with another Jedi. Ergo: OB1 says he can appear but he is very limited.

Originally posted by darthmaul1
For me I felt bad for Anakin in the end. He did everything he could to save padme.

So what did he do? Other than pledge allegiance to a bad guy he was first turning in? He didn't do anything but feel bad...

Though geez, the early draft of ROTJ had some godawful ideas about the ghosts getting involved...

It would appear the line about "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." is actually an abandoned "vestigial plot."

Something like 'force ghost taunt' would be an acceptable use as a force ghost, imo. It would be kind of cool to have a "Micky" character in Luke's corner as he fights Vader.

I think that "more powerful than you could possibly imagine" is justified in that Obi Wan can pretty much appear anywhere he wants to: he travels thousands of light-years like they are nothing, to appear to Luke. Obi Wan, at that point, has free reign to appear anywhere and glean information from anywhere for the good guys. (A plot hole that other people have already pointed out before I was even born.) Why is it that Obi Wan did not tell the rebels about the Death Star II was "armed and fully operational"? That's just one of many things Obi Wan COULD have done, but didn't. Was it more of a "hands-off" approach because he was already denying the natural order of things by holding onto his will and retaining a ghostly form? Maybe. I just think things could have been better had the Ghosts been used more effectively in both the PT and OT.

Or that the ghosts would have a point.

Now I think the "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" seems to refer to an eternal life in the Force.

Originally posted by queeq
Or that the ghosts would have a point.

Now I think the "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" seems to refer to an eternal life in the Force.

Agreed, he has learned that there is no death there is the force.

And then, so does Anakin very quickly... hehehe

Originally posted by queeq
And then, so does Anakin very quickly... hehehe

Ahhh! But strong is vader. Mind what you have learned, save you it can!

Err... yeah.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Something like 'force ghost taunt' would be an acceptable use as a force ghost, imo. It would be kind of cool to have a "Micky" character in Luke's corner as he fights Vader.

I'm sorry, I know this is older, but that made me laugh really hard. I could just see Luke hiding under the stairs, Vader looking for him, and all of a sudden OB1's ghost pops up, "Luke!! I din't hear no bell! GET UP, you sunnovab!tch..... cause Obi luvs ya....."

😆

Now, that'd I pay to see.

"Ay yo, Dad-dy.... i aint hear no bell!"