Why I hate the prequels? Three words:
People will always hate the PT so long as they compare them to the OT, which is a reflection of the golden era of the late 70's-early 80's where the world was a different place and the world was captivated by a new movie-going experience they had never witnessed before.
Beause the PT came out 16 years later, that gave people enough time to create SW in their own minds and what this universe practically meant to them. Therefore, not only did the PT have to compete with the original films, they had to compete with everyone's "own sky high vision" of what Star Wars was....and of course, they would never live up to anyone's expectations.
I say this because I'm so sick of people complaining about things in the PT that were equally as obvious in the OT. The OT is great, but almost everything I hear about the PT..."clunky dialogue, wooden acting, special fx..." can be found in the OT as well. But again, the OT was made in a completely different generation. For example...stop for a moment and think just about how "cheesy looking" the whole Cantina scene is in a New Hope with all those rubber looking alien mask that you can clearly tell is a being worn by a human being underneath it. It's awful...even the music is chessy. However, it's also a "nostalgic" memory of what the late 70's sci-fi was like. It was completely new, and it worked back then. In a movie like Attack of the Clones when Anakin and Obi-Wan enter the nightclub...well, now it just seems too corny for a movie made in 2002. Why? Because it's not 1977 anymore, and this is what the audience forgets. The prequels aren't going to behave or have the same cheesy charisma that was a reflection of technology back in the late 70's, early 80's. No matter what Star Wars film is made and who makes it, you know darn well they would never live up to the vision people had imprinted into their minds, not even if the PT were directed by Speilberg or Cameron. Because of that, everyone picks apart the PT's flaws, rather than acknowledge all the things that were good about them...and when people make ridiculous comments like "nothing was good about them" it just proves how ignorant and shallow movie goers can be.
At the end of the day, these are movies made for the price of an admission ticket...and directors like Lucas don't wake up one morning and decide to spend the next 9 years working 19 hour days with the sole intention of ruining every fanboys life. We, as an audience, ruin these movies for ourselves by overlooking the strengths and pointing out every weakness we can find because our lives weren't changed by a set of 3 new movies.
And just to further elaborate...the OT took full and complete advantage of the technology that existed in it's time. No one complained about it.
And because animation practically didn't exist back then, Yoda was a puppet who actually looked like a crack smoking Sesame Street reject...however...people still accepted it and didn't care.
The PT did exactly the same thing by taking advantage of the technology of this era...so we can't put the PT down because of that. When we saw Yoda as a puppet in TPM...let's face it...it didn't look good. Yoda being animated was not Lucas' attempt to let the audience freak out over nothing...it was his attempt at trying to make Yoda a more flexible character with facial movement, rather than being stiff like a card board box in which you couldn't tell whether what he was thinking other than by listenting to his voice. Whether the audience likes it or not, it was an honest attempt, and not a "Oh Geroge Lucas is fat" sort of thing. Yet, the ignorant movie goer will pass this off as "Lucas being lazy." It takes more time to animate Yoda then it does having him be a puppet. It takes more time to model, texturize, light, animate, and render a space ship then it does to use a model of a spaceship. Not to mention the 3D environments, landscapes...no one even begins to realize the amount of work that goes into this stuff. There's a reason why it takes 3 years of nonstop work to complete these films.
Face it, no one would be happy regardless of what they did. If they eased up on the CGI and film on actual locations that look dull an uninteresting, or used models to do space battles...people would then complain by saying "Now, one would wonder why in this modern day and age, that the Star Wars prequels didn't take full advantage of the technology of this era. It could have been spectacular." But the movies did just as they did with the 0T...it took full advantage of the technology. Sure, they were more limited back then, but for what they were allowed, the took full advantage of it, so we can't knock the PT down for doing the only thing it would logically do.
Story problems with the PT...yeah sure. They're nothing overly elaborate, but neither were the OT for that matter. The plots were very basic in the old ones too, and practically the only compelling plot point that happens in Empire is finding out that Luke is Vader's son. Other than that, the movie really has a beginning but no end. The one thing Empire succeded with was "tone." It had a consistent feel and a dark atmosphere that made it feel more mature, but that's all I give it. Return of the Jedi has ewoks....I rest my case.
Point is though... and I think Plinkett did point that out very well IMHO, the PT is often wooden and boring. The whole shot analysis he does on the PT (sitting on a couch and talk, walk and talk, Wide shot - close shot - reverse shot - turn to window - turn back), that actually goes well beyond the exterior debates of effects and dialogue. It;s about emotion. And frankly, the OT did very well there. The comparison he makes between the boring convo scenes in the PT and the much more dynamic talking scenes in the OT strike at the heart of the problem. Lucas is not a great storyteller, but he has great ideas. During the OT he apparantly gave room for people to do something with his ideas. Ford, Hamill and Fisher worked their butts off to make something of Lucas' mediocre writing. Kershner and Marquand added their bits. But it;s clear Lucas was in full control this time and made it like this... Even in his acting directing, he just tells the actors how the intonation should be, how they should stand... They just do as they are told.... And it's frigging boring. The same with his blocking and framing... it's stale and boring. And mostly: emotionless or at least not very credible.
So tehre is a clear difference.
Originally posted by Sith Master X
Face it, no one would be happy regardless of what they did. If they eased up on the CGI and film on actual locations that look dull an uninteresting, or used models to do space battles...people would then complain by saying "Now, one would wonder why in this modern day and age, that the Star Wars prequels didn't take full advantage of the technology of this era. It could have been spectacular." But the movies did just as they did with the 0T...it took full advantage of the technology. Sure, they were more limited back then, but for what they were allowed, the took full advantage of it, so we can't knock the PT down for doing the only thing it would logically do.
I hardly think people would complain because then it would fit with the OT and 'connect' the movies better visually. It takes time? Costs too much to film on location? Worthless excuses for I imagine Lucas would have had the funds and backing to get the best real environments and models. Lucas only took advantage of the technology he had at the time to do the OT because it was the ONLY way he could do the films. With the PT he didn't even bother to consider other ways and his only solution to a problem was just to CGI it instead of letting model/enviroment artists create the world for the actors to be in.
In the PT the actors never feel like they are anywhere at all, probably because they aren't. They enter CGI enviroments and don't react to heat, cold, wind, the sun in their eyes and other such stimuli because it's impossible for them to do so. When they did film on location in the PT the scenes were stronger, you felt they were somewhere, rather than in constricted environments with CGI filling in the rest.
The scene that best reflects my point is the lightsaber battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan. They are jumping around a large river of molten lava and there is no reaction to the danger of the situation, no reaction the unbearable heat they'd be feeling. In Terminator 2 in the end scene they do this better, they are arriving at the steel mill and they are sweating, reacting to the heat, the smoke and the conditions around them. This is primarily because they are on a set, they are told that that orange liquid over there is hot, they can see the steam and sparks introduced into the scene and it helps them react. In Terminator 1 at the end scene it's very similar, you can feel the reactions to the model of the Terminator, Sarah Connor's fear and desperation, Reese's anger and bravado, all because the actors can react to the 'real' danger in their own enviroment.
This is a reply to all the previous long posts.
Sith master x I agree with everything you said. Well put. Except for puppet yoda. I thought OT yoda looked really good where they screwed up was with PT puppet yoda, he didn't look right but when they cgi him he looked great.
For the other posters The lay out of the stories for PT and OT are exactly the same. And George can't direct or is not a good story teller?? It's all his story and idea and he had input in all the films. and as for the PT being boring. I will grant you that ep1 had some boring parts and was not as exciting as ep4 but this is why Lucas started with ep4 cause it was a more exciting story and brought the viewer in. Had he started with ep1 it wouldn't of drawn people in and would of been harder to do with the technology at the time.
Originally posted by darthmaul1
For the other posters The lay out of the stories for PT and OT are exactly the same.
No way is this true. The PT is confused with several subplots working at the same time to no great effect. No one subplot within the PT reaches a level of great importance and they all vy for attention at the same time.
The OT doesn't do this. It is one story starting from Luke and growing into each film with the message of the movie being the same. A journey of one man who joins the rebellion, learns the ways of the force and uses his skills to defeat the Empire. It doesn't deviate into subplots, everything is done for a reason, nothing is tacked on then discarded to provide cheap thrills e.g. Darth Maul, General Grievious, Count Dooku, Jango Fett.
Luke's main enemy in the in ANH is The Death Star/Darth Vader, in ESB its Darth Vader, in ROTJ its Darth Vader/The Emperor. Not much deviation and at least they are given the time to establish themselves before being killed off. Even Jabba The Hutt is established in ANH and referenced too throughout ESB so that when he meets his end in ROTJ its fine and makes sense because we know there is an underlying friction between Han and Jabba. This makes the stories stronger as a result and reinforces the goals of the main characters as being one and the same, no matter what each character is doing within the movie.
Plus all the villains in the OT stand in the way of the heroes reaching their goals. In the PT there are many, Jango, Grievous, Dooku, Maul, that are quite unclear in the way they are blocking the goals of the heroes. It's only Sidious and the powerful jedi can't even see him as the perpetrator.
Oh yes, the dark side clouds everything. How convenient, another plot device for everyone not to do anything....
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
No way is this true. The PT is confused with several subplots working at the same time to no great effect. No one subplot within the PT reaches a level of great importance and they all vy for attention at the same time.The OT doesn't do this. It is one story starting from Luke and growing into each film with the message of the movie being the same. A journey of one man who joins the rebellion, learns the ways of the force and uses his skills to defeat the Empire. It doesn't deviate into subplots, everything is done for a reason, nothing is tacked on then discarded to provide cheap thrills e.g. Darth Maul, General Grievious, Count Dooku, Jango Fett.
Luke's main enemy in the in ANH is The Death Star/Darth Vader, in ESB its Darth Vader, in ROTJ its Darth Vader/The Emperor. Not much deviation and at least they are given the time to establish themselves before being killed off. Even Jabba The Hutt is established in ANH and referenced too throughout ESB so that when he meets his end in ROTJ its fine and makes sense because we know there is an underlying friction between Han and Jabba. This makes the stories stronger as a result and reinforces the goals of the main characters as being one and the same, no matter what each character is doing within the movie.
OOO yeah, i'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there.
The OT had subplots too. EP4 had Leias struggle with tarkin and vader. Hans getting money to pay jabba and obiwan and vader at the end.
ep5 had leia and han love stuff, boba fett to a certain degree, Lando in cloud city.
ep 6 had again han in jabbas palace, Jabba himself, Leia and han love stuff again. the whole end battle besides luke and vader could be a subplot.
all those subplots work into luke's story.
The PT is the same, all the plots tie-in to one big picture. the whole thing is Anakins turn to the darkside and Palps rise to power.
and every subplot within the PT is needed and ties into the main plot.
The sith make their move, and Maul is used to take on the jedi. Palps uses the trade federation trade route thing to obtain control over the senate. The pod race is used for some excitment and also to get parts for the ship and to demonstraite that anakin is powerful with the force. even Jar Jar served a purpose to be introduced, something fun for the kids and in EPII he is so stupid that he proposes to give Palps power (padme would not have done this)
In EPII Gunray is trying to assasinate padme, to help the sepratist movment and for revenge. Dooku is leading the sepratists under the watchfull eye of Palps, so Palps will be able to completly rise to power and Jango is used to create the clones so the republic ends up being forced to use them once they find out dooku is creating a droid army.
ep III grievous is brought in to capture Palps and temporarly replace dooku once he is gone so the jedi have to rescue him and where Palps can further corrupt anakin after killing dooku. Obiwan is sent to utapah to get grievous and gunray to try and bring and end to the war.
Do you notice at the end of every film besides episode 4 they are always
multiple battles going on.
ep 1, Maul, Quigon and Obiwan, gungans and space battles
ep2, clone war, and dooku, obiwan and anakin, and dooku and yoda.
ep3, anakin and obiwan, and sidious and yoda.
ep5, vader and luke, and the escape from cloud city.
ep6, vader and luke, battle on endor and the space battle.
all the movies follow the same format. excitment at the begining and then slows down and excitment in the middle then slows down and excitment at the end.
Originally posted by darthmaul1
ep III grievous is brought in to capture Palps and temporarly replace dooku once he is gone so the jedi have to rescue him and where Palps can further corrupt anakin after killing dooku.
But Grievous works for Palps so we get a very strange situation there wondering why Grievous was there in the first place, as well as Dooku for that matter. What was the point of having Dooku there? To have meetings with bank managers and robot builders?
The PT is extremely covoluted.... EXTREMELY. And emotionless.
darthmaul1
What you've described from the OT aren't sub-plots, they are all essential to the main story, or how the story/characters progress.
EP4: Leia's struggle with Tarkin and Vader? Thats called setting the scene, that where she starts off, what do you want PT style team-ups right from the begining? Han getting money to pay Jabba sets up his character, his motivations and is expanded on and not left up in the air like the PT would have done. Obi-Wan and Vader don't meet at the end of the film so I don't know what you mean.
EP5: Leia and Han's love isn't cloying and forced. It progresses throughout the films but it does not distract from the films adventure. Padme and 'Anny' is forced, creepy and stops the momentum of the films in a big way. Boba Fett? As it explains he is there for Han Solo, on behalf of Jabba, see ANH, ESB as to why. Lando in Cloud City, yes they escape the Empire and need a safe haven so Han goes to his friend Lando, entirely plausible storytelling and this goes on to present the film with a location to conclude the story.
EP6: Han at Jabbas palace, yes because the previous two films have been building up to this from ANH and ESB. It's called developing the story and characters, what, are they meant to just leave him there?
As soon as they got him back they went on the main adventure. Leia and Han love stuff? So brief its barely there in ROTJ and it does nothing to detract from any of the scenes. The space battle and the battle on Endor are neccessary elements to tell the story. They need to destroy the shield generators so the fleet can get past the shield to the Death Star if Luke fails. If Luke was killed/turned and these other events weren't happening then the Empire would win and the rebels would look pretty stupid if they didn't have a backup plan. This is what Luke is talking about when he says 'In a moment I'll be dead...and you with me'
They are not structured the same, PT has far too much going on and far too many characters that mean little, if anything to the bigger picture.