Choose your War

Originally posted by dadudemon
Definitely not. Easily obtainable.

Also, it would appear that you are not aware of the "great fuel revolution" of the late 18th century:

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventions/a/lighting.htm

Also, building a small petroleum infrastructure would not be the that difficult with available "technologies:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_well#History

So, indeed, simple distillation processes already existed for hundreds of years before the American Revolutionary war. What I would be doing is creating a massive convergence of technologies, not really inventing new technologies. Because of our modern world and how quickly information travels, you are used to technology convergence at a blistering pace. The 'Great Information Age' is responsible for that.

You would be surprised at how much of a difference one modern person with a moderate amount of knowledge of modern technologies and how they work, could make...much less a nerd for history and technology with a really good memory such as you and I.

Also, one of the most fascinating aspects of "the future" is how much physically stronger and more muscular I would be compared to those of the "18th Century". You yourself would be a superb specimen of almost completely unheard of physical strength and muscular development. Most of our knowledge of physical performance and strength has occurred only in the last 60 years...due largely to our modern medical research systems of controlled studies, peer reviews, and chemistry. Even the last 30 years has seen such an absurd pace of athletic and plain medical discoveries that we are overturning lots of the discoveries of the previous 30 years.

One of the funnest portions of this knowledge transplantation would be computational security. I could encrypt information that would not be decrypt-able until many years after I encrypted them. I do not know how much I would change the future with all of "my" break through's, but it's possible that some elements would remain.

The main goal would be to improve the quality of life as much as possible and leave my mark of "peace" as deeply rooted as possible on history. It would be fun, I think.

It would be lunacy to assume that I would be "just one voice among thousands" when it would actually be millions, my brief little adventure would already create massive changes, and I'd be relegated to "just one voice".

Edit -However, I do appreciate the criticism. I've just thought about this much more than you have. What do you think I do in my 30 minute drive to work and back each day? That shit's boring.

No, it is, and I clearly explained how it is.

Thanks, though.

No. If you leave the front lines, if you go off to make your war machine, you are immediately raped, killed, gutted, skinned then eaten.

You must choose a war from the past to fight in, for a period of one year. Obviously he will magically transport you back in time to fight in this war. You will be a lowly private, on the front lines, fighting as an American soldier in the Army. After the year is up, if you are still alive, you will be magically transported to the exact time that you left. You may not use your knowledge of the future to benefit yourself

Originally posted by Robtard
Not the fuel source, the power-plant to power and move this/these warmachines? Steam, internal combustion, electric etc.

The "power plant"? Why would I need a power plant when I could build a simple engine that uses contemporary fuel sources?

Building a simple engine simple engine is very easy. The armor would not have to be very thick to stop all cannon fire and existing cast iron canons could be melted down to be poured into the templates we made already.

The biggest argument, I think, that you could have legitimately made is, "Where are you going to get your insulative materials for your electric spark?" Easy answer: beeswax and rag...just like other early insulators.

However, I view that argument as the biggest "hole" in my proposal.

Originally posted by Robtard
You'd be better off trying to change the way war was fought, ie idiots standing in line and firing, waiting to be shot. Inventing body-armor and cultivating pennicillin.

As the 'changing minds' aspect, I think you're greatly overestimating the pull you'd have on people, those in power and those who would stand to lose from your ideas of change. There were powerful men who wanted slavery, the killing of the Natives so Europeans could expand and build etc, they'd likely just use your war inventions to further what already happened in history, though at a much faster rate.

After almost single-handedly winning the war, I magically lose all of my accomplishments and my scientific endeavors are nulled when I want to step into the front of the political scene?

That's an odd argument against my proposals. Keep in mind that it was the most militarily successful that had the easiest time entering into politics and that holds partially true, until this day, in the US. Add on top of that my success in science, the positive results it brought, and the obvious humane way I approach human life and I will be unable to keep myself from being legendary among the people. They will listen to me as though I were a demi-god (but we both know that it wouldn't be true). For the most part, much of what I wanted to offer would be for the utmost good of the people, anyway.

Originally posted by Robtard
If DDM were to do all he says, he would literally change America (for better or worse, don't know), considering he was born in American, there's a very good chance he'd wipe himself out of existence, thereby creating the paradox. If he was never born, how would he travel back in time to then change the past.

But I do see your angle of "we're dealing with magic."

Oh no, you are right, that is a paradox, one of the common time travel ones, DDM is just wrong in calling what he described paradoxical.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nah, you are wrong there.

Nah, definitely not. Don't confuse your lack of understanding and conclusion from that position as correct.

My original reasons for selecting the war would be nulled as soon as my memory would be erased and, therefore, I would not be able to make the selection to begin with. My knowledge is required to make the selection but is not longer present after I make the selection making the selection and transportation pointless because I can no longer make that decision: AKA, I will never go anywhere nor do anything unless I can keep my knowledge AFTER I'm transported.

I did not read the OP but am basing my point on RJ's and my conversation that we somehow apparate ourselves.

If my knowledge is removed after I am transported, then I will become an amnesiac, unable to function or do anything, after the transport, making the selection process futile from the beginning.

The only way to avoid the obvious paradox of making a selection and then not having a selection after your memory is wiped, is allow the memory to stay with the person the whole time. They cannot come back unless they have their memories as they will be unable to apparate.

Of course, we could argue that you would be granted the average knowledge of the average solider from each era AFTER you are transported (by a 3rd party), but that makes the entire exercise no fun. The decisions becomes less of an decision and more of a romantic/sentimental decision. Unless the person approaches the decisions solely based on the probability of death, which really stifles the potential for discussion in this thread as every one's answer would then be the same.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No. If you leave the front lines, if you go off to make your war machine, you are immediately raped, killed, gutted, skinned then eaten.

[b]
You must choose a war from the past to fight in, for a period of one year. Obviously he will magically transport you back in time to fight in this war. You will be a lowly private, on the front lines, fighting as an American soldier in the Army. After the year is up, if you are still alive, you will be magically transported to the exact time that you left. You may not use your knowledge of the future to benefit yourself [/B]

I would not enter the front lines from day 1 as I would contact my CO and report my awesome ideas before the day 1 battles even began, thus circumventing your very implausible mitigation.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh no, you are right, that is a paradox, one of the common time travel ones, DDM is just wrong in calling what he described paradoxical.

Incorrect. Your lack of understanding is what is wrong here.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I would not enter the front lines from day 1 as I would contact my CO and report my awesome ideas before the day 1 battles even began, thus circumventing your very implausible mitigation.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That's part of the option given you by the maniac wizard. That you fight on the front lines for one year. If you fail to fulfill your side of the deal, you get raped.

"I reject your [proposal] and submit my own."

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah, definitely not. Don't confuse your lack of understanding and conclusion from that position as correct.

My original reasons for selecting the war would be nulled as soon as my memory would be erased and, therefore, I would not be able to make the selection to begin with. My knowledge is required to make the selection but is not longer present after I make the selection making the selection and transportation pointless because I can no longer make that decision: AKA, I will never go anywhere nor do anything unless I can keep my knowledge AFTER I'm transported.

I agree, eradicating the knowledge would be stupid, good thing the OP didn't suggest that.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I did not read the OP but am basing my point on RJ's and my conversation that we somehow apparate ourselves.

Ah okay, there we go, so you were just wrong cause you didn't read the OP, not cause you don't understand. That's good. I just cut the rest, cause everything after here just continues to show your misunderstanding of the stipulation the OP made and further the one I made in addressing you.

So in conclusion, you may be right in whatever you and RJ have been talking about, you are wrong regarding this thread though.

Originally posted by dadudemon
"I reject your [proposal] and submit my own."

AAAAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!!!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Then you get raped.

AAAAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!!!

He's behaving a bit silly, he should just say that he doesn't want to answer that scenario, rather than pretending that there is a fundamental flaw with it, when there isn't.

WWII I think. Fighting the Germans in.....France, yeah.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The "power plant"? Why would I need a power plant when I could build a simple engine that uses contemporary fuel sources?

Building a simple engine simple engine is very easy. The armor would not have to be very thick to stop all cannon fire and existing cast iron canons could be melted down to be poured into the templates we made already.

The biggest argument, I think, that you could have legitimately made is, "Where are you going to get your insulative materials for your electric spark?" Easy answer: beeswax and rag...just like other early insulators.

However, I view that argument as the biggest "hole" in my proposal.

After almost single-handedly winning the war, I magically lose all of my accomplishments and my scientific endeavors are nulled when I want to step into the front of the political scene?

That's an odd argument against my proposals. Keep in mind that it was the most militarily successful that had the easiest time entering into politics and that holds partially true, until this day, in the US. Add on top of that my success in science, the positive results it brought, and the obvious humane way I approach human life and I will be unable to keep myself from being legendary among the people. They will listen to me as though I were a demi-god (but we both know that it wouldn't be true). For the most part, much of what I wanted to offer would be for the utmost good of the people, anyway.

"Simple engine", come on dude. You're going to need at least 75-100hp, if you want to break 5kmph in that iron juggernaut. It's going to be hard to have smiths cast a block, let alone get the valves, cylinders, cooling and electrical working all working in unison. Even if you went with a compression-engine (diesel) and did away with the electrics, it's still a monumental task considering the tech you have at hand; this is considering you know the blue-prints in how to design one like the back of your hand. Look at the early British tanks, even with 120+ years of advancement in tech ahead of you they were slow, broke down, got stuck often and were dangerous to the crew inside.

No, not lost. But you'd likely be pushed aside; have your ideas taken (cry copy-write all you like) and used to further the "progress" that happened. Now if you went along with slavery and expansionism, you'd likely be seen as the man of the century.

Don't intend to shit on you, just think you're being quite a bit unrealistic.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I agree, eradicating the knowledge would be stupid, good thing the OP didn't suggest that.

Ah okay, there we go, so you were just wrong cause you didn't read the OP, not cause you don't understand. That's good. I just cut the rest, cause everything after here just continues to show your misunderstanding of the stipulation the OP made and further the one I made in addressing you.

So in conclusion, you may be right in whatever you and RJ have been talking about, you are wrong regarding this thread though.

So we are not allowed to use our knowledge that we get to keep after making the decision, so why would we make the decision based on our knowledge, to begin with? Who wants to go into the past to kill other people with a significant risk to the loss of our own life other than a murdering psychopath, as someone pointed out?

Those were rhetorical questions part of the reason I rejected the OP.

Originally posted by Bardock42
He's behaving a bit silly, he should just say that he doesn't want to answer that scenario, rather than pretending that there is a fundamental flaw with it, when there isn't.

Weren't there like famous inventors during the American Revolution?

Originally posted by Robtard
"Simple engine", come on dude. You're going to need at least 75-100hp, if you want to break 5kmph in that iron juggernaut. It's going to be hard to have smiths cast a block, let alone get the valves, cylinders, cooling and electrical working all working in unison. Even if you went with a compression-engine (diesel) and did away with the electrics, it's still a monumental task considering the tech you have at hand; this is considering you know the blue-prints in how to design one like the back of your hand. Look at the early British tanks, even with 100+ years of advancement in tech ahead of you they were slow, broke down, got stuck often and were dangerous to the crew inside.

No, not lost. But you'd likely be pushed aside; have your ideas taken (cry copy-write all you like) and used to further the "progress" that happened. Now if you went along with slavery and expansionism, you'd likely be seen as the man of the century.

Don't intend to shit on you, just think you're being quite a bit unrealistic.

Nah, it would not be hard at all. It would be rather easy.

The longest part would be creating the clay originals, but after that, it would be a very fast fabrication process. Plenty of metal to melt down and cast with the templates. That would be the easy part.

I agree that it would be difficult to create the first working "prototype", but after that, it would be very easy to mass produce. I mentioned this in my post, as well.

I also think that you are grossly underestimating the existing engineers of the time. These people are not cavemen. Sure, they were much easier to persuade with religion, back then, and myth and legend were held as higher canon than science and fact for most people.

Also, you mentioned body armor. Not feasible as they are too far advanced for that time period. It would take about a decade or 2 to get to the point of body armor fabrication processes. On top of that, I do not have very much knowledge of how to make Kevlar or other body armor types. Engines are far easier to make, imo. I thought about this for a long time and the armored vehicle with an assembly line process would be the best thing to start on during the ARW as it would provide the greatest advantage. An automatic is not necessary.

Also, I do not believe 75HP is enough. Something close to 150 HP is what I had in mind. That first prototype would probably be much closer to 50 HP, however. That is still more than enough. 5MPH is not what I had in mind. Something closer to 10MPH. 😐

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
DDM is my boy. I'll add Scenario two, one can use their knowledge of the future to help themselves.

Weren't there like famous inventors during the American Revolution?

lulz

AWESOME!

I love the scenario two.

Scenario 1 has an obvious answer: WWI. That was pointed out already.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah, it would not be hard at all. It would be rather easy.

The longest part would be creating the clay originals, but after that, it would be a very fast fabrication process. Plenty of metal to melt down and cast with the templates. That would be the easy part.

I agree that it would be difficult to create the first working "prototype", but after that, it would be very easy to mass produce. I mentioned this in my post, as well.

I also think that you are grossly underestimating the existing engineers of the time. These people are not cavemen. Sure, they were much easier to persuade with religion, back then, and myth and legend were held as higher canon than science and fact for most people.

Also, you mentioned body armor. Not feasible as they are too far advanced for that time period. It would take about a decade or 2 to get to the point of body armor fabrication processes. On top of that, I do not have very much knowledge of how to make Kevlar or other body armor types. Engines are far easier to make, imo.

lulz

AWESOME!

I love the scenario two.

Scenario 1 has an obvious answer: WWI. That was pointed out already.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
DDM is my boy. I'll add Scenario two, one can use their knowledge of the future to help themselves.

Weren't there like famous inventors during the American Revolution?

I don't mind him refusing to answer your scenario and answering his own instead, just this silly blabbering about how it is a paradox, and the nonsense explanations for why he's not wrong about it, is a bit stupid.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So we are not allowed to use our knowledge that we get to keep after making the decision, so why would we make the decision based on our knowledge, to begin with? Who wants to go into the past to kill other people with a significant risk to the loss of our own life other than a murdering psychopath, as someone pointed out?

Those were rhetorical questions part of the reason I rejected the OP.

Yes, the scenario is, you get to decide which war you have to fight in for one year as a lowly soldier. That's the whole question, that RJ also brought a murdering psychopath with magic powers into it, is cute but isn't really necessary to be able to answer the question with the given limitations.

[edit] But it's good to see we agree with the answers to the scenarios. Scenario 1 WW1, Scenario 2 ARW

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, you're a lowly Private with zero creditability in the field of creating war machines. What makes you think they won't laugh in your face?

The average musclehead would be very shocking to 18th century people.

The physical appearance and the speaking voice alone would produce the results I desired...much less the knowledge.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The average musclehead would be very shocking to 18th century people.

The physical appearance and the speaking voice alone would produce the results I desired...much less the knowledge.

They'd regulate you to mule-boy.

Jokes aside, I'd be better to integrate several of those 150hp engines onto warships, equip 3X the amount of cannons, armor plate those puppies and kill the British before they land. IMO.

Originally posted by Robtard
They'd regulate you to mule-boy.

Jokes aside, I'd be better to integrate several of those 150hp engines onto warships, equip 3X the amount of cannons, armor plate those puppies and kill the British before they land. IMO.

It would take much longer to design that for a ship or even an existing ship.

On top of that, the pieces lose 'armor' resiliency if you have to break them up into segments (which you'd have to do because "transportation" of huge plates is not possible with any sort of "good" timie). You can overcome that by doing a dragonmail overlap system but acquiring that much iron in such a small period of time is not very feasible for the American Revolutionaries. Remember, I'm melting down the iron around me to make my APC.

On top of that, you'd have to build a ship sturdy enough to to hold all of that armor and move about fast enough to do anything.

The APC with treads still represents the most feasible option as sufficient enough armor would block pretty much anything that could be thrown at it. A single unit would be enough for most engagements with the British. This is why I selected it.

I still have not thought of a better option other than the APC.

Even making a plane would not be a very good option, I think....but it might be. I'd have to explore that avenue, first. (You'd have to fly out of range of their weapons, but have an explosives delivery system adequate enough to deliver your payload.)

I suspect then you're only making a handful of APCs, cos a fleet of them would in turn require vast amount of armor, likely more than equipping a few ships into juggernauts of naval death. Not sure even 10 of these archaic APCs would matter much in the end, war would likely end on a similar time-table as it did.

The multiple engines would move the ship around better than sails during a close battle, besides, they wouldn't have to go out far into the sea, more of a port blockade and most importantly, a moral destroyer for the British.

Hotair ballon would be great too, more for position spying than artillery dropping.