Tunisia Rising

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/jan/14/tunisia-wikileaks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12195025

People are taking to the streets in Tunisia in force, combating police, etc, etc, etc.

"A state of emergency has been declared amid protests over corruption, unemployment and food prices."

I haven't yet read up on Ben Ali but he seems pretty hated by everyone, which is why there is what seems to be a popular insurrection against him.

I mean, quoting from the Guardian who quoted a Tunisian boy,

"And for the first time, we see the opportunity to rebel, to take revenge on the "royal" family who has taken everything, to overturn the established order that has accompanied our youth. An educated youth, which is tired and ready to sacrifice all the symbols of the former autocratic Tunisia with a new revolution: the Jasmin Revolution – the true one."

I don't know what you lot think of all this

EDIT:

Apparently these clashes have been going on for a month now.

Whacky Arabs burning and bombing shit? I am Jack's surprised colon.

This is really great news, Ben Ali has finally been forced to step down as President (read: Dictator); http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12195025

Being a tunisian citizen (not living there, but visiting at least once a year) I have really seen the crap Ben Ali has put that country through, and really hope this can start going for the better.

While I realize that a lot of people have been killed in the fighting I have to say that this seems like a very quick revolution, with a surprisingly small amount of violence involved in forcing the regime change.

eventually we will all uprise and take back the power, power to the people not the bankers.

Lucky for the world that noone gives a shit about Tunisia except when they qualify for world cup.

Rebel scum. Speaking of which, wasn't "star wars: a new hope" film there?

The Homestead part at the very begging was filmed there, and the Mos Espa scenes from Phantom Menace.

Originally posted by jaden101
Lucky for the world that noone gives a shit about Tunisia except when they qualify for world cup.

A lot of people go on holiday there, Djerba being very popular.

I wonder how it´s affecting the holiday makers.

YouTube video

so, ya, from what we have seen in Tunisia, the Arab would could be a tinderbox of democratic revolutions, if only there were some inciting moment like there was in this instance.

Originally posted by inimalist
YouTube video

so, ya, from what we have seen in Tunisia, the Arab would could be a tinderbox of democratic revolutions, if only there were some inciting moment like there was in this instance.

Why do you always use that yuppie "So, ya" when you're trying to make some kind of intellectual point?

Not trolling...Genuinely curious...You use it a lot in certain debates.

Originally posted by jaden101
Why do you always use that yuppie "So, ya" when you're trying to make some kind of intellectual point?

Not trolling...Genuinely curious...You use it a lot in certain debates.

I use "fair enough", and "further/however" a lot too

I think it is like: "So, there is a piece/s of evidence that I have presented/find convincing, therefore:", it just indicates that I am summing from previous stuff, I tend to type how I speak, thus all the "likes" and "whatevers".

I couldn't tell you for sure though, just something I say I suppose

also, reported for trolling, so ya

Originally posted by inimalist

also, reported for trolling, so ya

😆

Could be worse.

Originally posted by Robtard
Whacky Arabs burning and bombing shit? I am Jack's surprised colon.

😂 Right?

YouTube video

as unfortunate as it is, this highlights the reality of revolution

violence, insecurity, lack of resources and basic living needs, no stability or reliability from security services...

Hopefully someone can take power and lead Tunisia in the right direction, but like the first AJE viodeo I posted, the danger is that at this point, people will fall in with a strongman who gets their country working again, rather than with egalitarian ideas of "democracy" and "freedom", as happened in Aljeeria...

What do you guys think? We will all probably agree that regieme change imposed from the outside is ill fated, but could the international community come and essentially "occupy" Tunisia now, in the name of its people, in order to ensure that the power vaccum isn't just filled by "more of the same"?

There are obvious problems, outside forces are never seen as benevolent by locals, but maybe this is where the global community could play a role in "exporting democracy"

Originally posted by inimalist
YouTube video

as unfortunate as it is, this highlights the reality of revolution

violence, insecurity, lack of resources and basic living needs, no stability or reliability from security services...

Hopefully someone can take power and lead Tunisia in the right direction, but like the first AJE viodeo I posted, the danger is that at this point, people will fall in with a strongman who gets their country working again, rather than with egalitarian ideas of "democracy" and "freedom", as happened in Aljeeria...

What do you guys think? We will all probably agree that regieme change imposed from the outside is ill fated, but could the international community come and essentially "occupy" Tunisia now, in the name of its people, in order to ensure that the power vaccum isn't just filled by "more of the same"?

There are obvious problems, outside forces are never seen as benevolent by locals, but maybe this is where the global community could play a role in "exporting democracy"

Did a fine job of that in Vietnam.
And even more so now in Afghanistan.

No, it's going to have to be non-national grassroots affiliated groups that would make any sort of foreign impact positive.

U.N. Peacekeepers armed to the teeth just aren't going to cut it anymore.

Originally posted by Liberator
Did a fine job of that in Vietnam.
And even more so now in Afghanistan.

No, it's going to have to be non-national grassroots affiliated groups that would make any sort of foreign impact positive.

U.N. Peacekeepers armed to the teeth just aren't going to cut it anymore.

?

neither of those cases are what I described...

Originally posted by inimalist
YouTube video

as unfortunate as it is, this highlights the reality of revolution

violence, insecurity, lack of resources and basic living needs, no stability or reliability from security services...

Hopefully someone can take power and lead Tunisia in the right direction, but like the first AJE viodeo I posted, the danger is that at this point, people will fall in with a strongman who gets their country working again, rather than with egalitarian ideas of "democracy" and "freedom", as happened in Aljeeria...

What do you guys think? We will all probably agree that regieme change imposed from the outside is ill fated, but could the international community come and essentially "occupy" Tunisia now, in the name of its people, in order to ensure that the power vaccum isn't just filled by "more of the same"?

There are obvious problems, outside forces are never seen as benevolent by locals, but maybe this is where the global community could play a role in "exporting democracy"

true, but even hardcore revolutionists acknowledge that. what they promise is overall improvement once the civil war is over and the revolution is consolidated

in theory, a decent form of UN backed international occupation that acts to protect basic interests of the people as a whole and not for the benefit of some local elite and a foreign power supporting it for its own interests isn't impossible, but as a rule, they turn to shit just the same as neutrality is impossible and nobody believes in the kindness of gun carrying foreigners anyway (usually with good reason). Any outside group with strategic interests in the country will simply atempt to manipulate the forces struggling for power within it, both right now and in the event of any international peace mission.

Originally posted by 753
true, but even hardcore revolutionists acknowledge that. what they promise is overall improvement once the civil war is over and the revolution is consolidated

they may recognize the fact, but imho, if you look at the history of revolution, you see cases of people highly effective at disrupting and dismantling the previous state, but rarely with any idea of how to manage the interm. Famously, the student revolts in Paris or the capturing of Barcelona during the Spanish Civil war (there are counter examples of course, Krondstadt seems to have revolted with clear ideas of organization after the revolt, and Cuba might be a successful example).

They do have an interm leader in Tunisia right now, and he seems to be trying to get a quick peace between various groups (I can't honestly say I know who the important groups are here), so hopefully he can do it.

Originally posted by 753
in theory, a decent form of UN backed international occupation that acts to protect basic interests of the people as a whole and not for the benefit of some local elite and a foreign power supporting it for its own interests isn't impossible, but as a rule, they turn to shit just the same as neutrality is impossible and nobody believes in the kindness of gun carrying foreigners anyway (usually with good reason). Any outside group with strategic interests in the country will simply atempt to manipulate the forces struggling for power within it, both right now and in the event of any international peace mission.

I agree, for sure. It would present a logistics nightmare. Even just looking at a situation like Rwanda, the West pulled its peacekeepers out when it looked like a genocide was going to occur. How could we possibly expect Western nations to give troops to secure a nation in a situation like this, that is, if we could even do it in such a way that the people of that nation didn't feel occupied.

Originally posted by inimalist
How could we possibly expect Western nations to give troops to secure a nation in a situation like this, that is, if we could even do it in such a way that the people of that nation didn't feel occupied.