Originally posted by Desaad
And the whole 'rising the occasion' is a standard trope of every hero ever. It's just the way these things work. I could name a half dozen for probably every major character around.Not saying it isn't to be taken into account, but that hardly is something unique, you know?
the point im trying to make is not that he is the only superhero who does this. the point making is the instances in which he's risen to the occasion are some pretty uber stuff.
He's solid enough that it doesn't tend to come into play when he's going up against characters like Lightray (who moves faster than light) and Superman (who is about as variable as Nova but at least as capable of moving at high combat speeds, if not moreso).
His actually demonstrated speed isn't anything astounding -- little showings here and there, catching bullets and throwing them back from behind the back, moving faster than anyone can see, etc -- but combined with his preternatural skill it's apparently sufficient enough that he's good to go against anyone.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
the point im trying to make is not that he is the only superhero who does this. the point making is the instances in which he's risen to the occasion are some pretty uber stuff.
Yeah, sure, cool. I'm just saying I don't see that as the average of what he's capable of -- and those kinds of showings are very 'normal'. GLs, Silver Surfer, Orion, Thor, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc have all done similar things against similarly absurd foes or odds.
What we do know is that, in general, against legit elite top tiers (Surfer, Xenith) Nova/Rich doesn't perform so well. And, lets be honest, Orion is in a lot of ways a combo of Surfer and Xenith.
Originally posted by DesaadYou base this on that non fight? Besides, in TI they seemed to be portrayed on equal footing. At least in terms of how they got utterly stomped by Mar-vell 😂 😛
Eh, different strokes. I think it's the same out and out stomp that it was when the Surfer went up against Nova -- ie, Nova had zero chance against him. That's what I expect here, for him to get utterly handled. Because I see the two of them as roughly on par.
Originally posted by dmills
You base this on that non fight? Besides, in TI they seemed to be portrayed on equal footing. At least in terms of how they got utterly stomped byMar-vell 😂 😛
So you'd argue that Surfer didn't seem far and away more powerful/capable than Nova in their interaction? That seems like...denial to me, to be perfectly frank.
And getting stomped by the same villain doesn't mean they are on the same level, or else Spiderman and Thor are on the same level. 🙂
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
hmm... i disagree with np not performing well against xenith. a regular centurion who has an insignificant fraction of NP's power kept her at bay for a long period of time.
But full on Nova could only win with bullshits and tricks, not with out and out power/strength/combat skill.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17I think what he means is that he would have preferred to see an out and out stomp, which would've put him firmly in the HH tier in a lot of eyes. But because DnA used that stupid psionic plot device it tarnished the win in many eyes.
hmm... i disagree with np not performing well against xenith. a regular centurion who has an insignificant fraction of NP's power kept her at bay for a long period of time.
Originally posted by Desaad
But full on Nova could only win with bullshits and tricks, not with out and out power/strength/combat skill.
why would he prolong a fight he knows he could end much faster? he's a hero after all. as sadistic as she may be, he wasnt gonna go on a prolonged fight to beat that shiet out of a crazy female. that was more of a scuffle not a battle.
Originally posted by Desaad
Lots of excuses, and they might be more acceptable if he hadn't consistently demonstrated an inability or unwillingness to engage and defeat genuine top tier foes.I don't know that he had even one under his belt, did he?
he still beat her didnt he? he stil used a part of his powerset to KO her @$$ in the end. ure actually the one making an excuse on how she lost.
Originally posted by DesaadThe dialogue gave that impression sure. But nothing that happened on panel imo. Neither did any serious damage and Nova got the better end of the one serious exchange they had. Do you deny that?
So you'd argue that Surfer didn't seem far and away more powerful/capable than Nova in their interaction? That seems like...denial to me, to be perfectly frank.And getting stomped by the same villain doesn't mean they are on the same level, or else Spiderman and Thor are on the same level. 🙂
At any rate I like most consider Norrin at the top of the food chain of the HH. But in the end I think he beats Nova because quite honestly, he's just a horrible match up for Rich, much like Hal would be. People like Thor and Supes are elite HH as well, but Rich has the tools to beat either one if them imo. Styles make fights.
I was just BSing about that Mar-vell thing man lol!
Originally posted by DesaadWho are all of these top tiers that you're referring to? To my knowledge he's fought Super Nova (above top tier) Glads, Kraa, Namor, Surfer (if you want to call it a fight) Thor (classic mind control hero on hero fight), Annihilus, a mature Technarch (prolly above top tier), Ego and Sphinx (both defiantly above top tier).
Lots of excuses, and they might be more acceptable if he hadn't consistently demonstrated an inability or unwillingness to engage and defeat genuine top tier foes.I don't know that he had even one under his belt, did he?
At the very worst he stalemated Thor and Glads, killed the bug (who was prolly above top tier in Annihilation), killed(?) Sphinx after fighting through his blasts, stalemated the Technarch, ko'd Ego etc. Point being that when he goes up against them he damn sure doesn't have a legit loss.
The Xenith fight isn't even worth the trouble. She proved to be little more then a nuisance in the end. The guy was literally reading his computer while she punched him lol.
Super Nova above Top Tier? Why?
At the worst his fights were stalemates against Thor and Gladiator? 😂 At worst they were Nova getting his ass kicked without doing anything to his opponents (Outside of absorbing Gladiator's heat vision thing but that put hurt him more than it did Gladiator IIRC)
It was made painfully clear that his was beneath Thor and Gladiator just as it was made clear that he was below Surfer.
His gotten more than one upgrade over the years, but it's always been rather clear that his below Top Tiers in power whenever I've seen him encounter them.
Haha. Dude, you need to take the Nova shades off.
Don't remember the Ego or Techarch fight (Didn't he just lobotomize Ego temporarily?) but if the rest of your post is any indication, shit was not impressive.
I do remember the Sphinx fight recently, and he had an impressive feat where he blocked Sphinx's attack for a few moments.
Edit: Not to mock Nova, as his formidable obviously, but his not going to be beating Top Tiers like Orion, Surfer, Thor etc. straight up. Just isn't happening from what I've seen. Using smarts, quick thinking, and versatility, possibly, but those kind of characters didn't survive as long as they have without having those traits as well. Nova legit Mid Herald at least.