Are Windu and Yoda deliberately risking Anakin's fall?

Started by Ushgarak2 pages

Are Windu and Yoda deliberately risking Anakin's fall?

This is something I have been musing on lately. Bear with me.

Qui-Gon Jinn is the maverick, definat and reckless Jedi Master who believes his instincts and the Force will lead his actions to the ultimate good. His taking Anakin away from Tatooine is exactly one of these instincts of his. The Council seems at first very unsure of this action.

To quote GL: "It is clear that Qui-Gon took a very dangerous decision... but one that may be ultimately correct."

Certainly as soon as it is confirmed that the Sith are back, the Council changes its mind. Yoda is outvoted by the Council and Anakin's training is approved.

By the time of AOTC, Yoda appears to have changed his mind. He and Windu are not only happy with Anakin being trained, they are prepared to send his inexperienced self off on an important mission with a dangerous emotional connection for him. Even Obi-Wan questions this decision. he mentions Anakin's arrogance. Yoda then gives an interesting spiel on the problem of arrogance in the Order... but completely fails to refute Obi-Wan's point. A nice piece of evasion.

The attitude of Windu and Yoda seems to be to 'have faith' in Anakin. A strange change of attitude indeed! Any number of us could be shouting at the cinema screen, saying what a bad idea this is. These two, though, are the wisest in the Galaxy. What could be motivating them to such apparent folly?

So I think they are risking Anakin on purpose. It is only a vague, mad idea, but here are some points in support.

Qui-Gon believed in action first, feeling and not thinking. And so he produces Anakin. The other Jedi are more passive, believing in thought before action, taking a step back and predicting things and then reacting to them. But they find this power FAILING, due to the actions of the Sith- something they dare not admit, as revealed in AOTC, Yoda will tell others that the Dark Side cloud things, but not that the Dark Lord of the Sith has so terribly impaired their predictive power. The Jedi ways are failing and Yoda fears the worst.

Let us not forget that despite his failings, QGJ was a greatly respected Jedi Master. Mayhaps Yoda and Windu start to believe that he had a point after all. His instincts were not clouded like the Jedi's perceptions have been.

And so by the time Obi-Wan starts to believe that training Anakin is a bad idea... these two start to think it is a good one!

To proceed.

Anakin may be the Chosen One. As viewers we know it, and QGJ was certain of it. The other protagonists are unsure. They know if he IS, then he will balance the Force. They know the Sith are moving and things are not looking good. How will this Chosen One balance the Force? They do not know any details. But clearly the Chosen One must be instrumental.

At the very least, I think they cut Anakin loose in AOTC because they think that the Chosen One cannot achieve anything bottled up in the Temple.

At the most, I think that Yoda has already worked out that the way the Chosen One will balance the force is to kill the Dark Lord AFTER becoming his apprentice, and is prepared to let Anakin fall in order for this prediction to come true.

I am not, of course, suggesting that Yoda and Windu are prepared for the Order to be destroyed and the Galaxy taken over. GL lets us know that several 'mistakes' lead to this happening, even from Yoda. Is this Yoda's mistake? If so, I would think that the crutch of the mistake is not in the plan itself (which, after all, works EVENTUALLY), but in not spotting that the Dark Lord was right next to them all the time.

Let's look at some things that would fit this.

Some people have come up with the idea that Anakin deliberately falls knowing that this will later be the only way to save things., I hate this idea. Justifying Anakin's evil actions removes his moral complicity in them and destroys the central moral mainframe of the story. But if it is someone ELSE'S plan... hmm....

"How will you know when you have gone too far?" asked the Mysteries trailer for AOTC. Attributed to Mace. Some took this as evidence of his treachery, but clearly not so. But is it that this plan of letting Anakin loose to 'flush out' the Sith the thing they are not sure of? Yoda senses Anakin's pain and disquiet when he kills the raiders. It is possible he had been using the Force to track Anakin all this time. And when they hear the news of this disaster? Do they panic? Do they say "Oh my, he may be falling, we should go help him at once!". No,. Mace simply looks thoughtful. Maybe thoughtful because this is a possibility he has already considered?

Ok, this is only a vague idea. And I am not saying that they are deliberately engineering his fall. But I DO think they are RISKING Anakin; that they have cut him loose because they now think he is the Chosen One, know he is important, and they want to see what will happen when he is let go.

This would explain their otherwise highly questionable decision to let him caper around solo turning evil whilst years before they were against even training him. But failing to spot the true presence of the Sith means that this is a mistake that will cost the Order its existence. And because they have become so focussed on their predictive powers, rather than Qui-Gon's belief in instincts (dangerous, but effective), the Order will pay the price.

What do you think?

the more I read of it the more correct it seemed..but of course i don't have a clue..

if SW was supposed to be complicated then I think USH really have a point, but SW aint that deep. But for the sake of the arguement/discussion

they are prepared to send his inexperienced self off on an important mission with a dangerous emotional connection for him.

this can also be a test of if Anakin is ready for the "final" trials to step out of the padawan ranks and become a jedi knight

I think they sent Anakin because Padme knew him and would be comfortable with him, plus they seemed a little thin on the gound becuase they had Jedi's off on other assignements trying to keep the Republic together. Hadn't Obi-Wan and Anaking just returned from Anison.

It's not actually THAT complex, there is just a lot of plot around it. I am willing to believe it is possible.

Cool idea, Ush, really cool. Although I do have to agre with Finti as well that it sounds pretty complex for SW.

It does fit nicely with the unfortunatly cut scene between Windu and OB1, quoted on the back cover of the novel: "You must have faith he will bring balance to the Force."

However, something must have gone wrong even to Yoda's point of view by the time of ESB. The way he talks to Luke about cutting his training short. If this theory is true than all hope for balance must have gone by the time of ESB, as he says to Luke that only a fully trained Jedi Knight can defeat Vader and the Emperor (nice and interesting sequence there with the PT - as if Vader was also the decisive element for Palpy's power - no Vader, no Emperor). In fact he states "On this all depends", so all in all, the entire idea in the long run must have been abandoned (if Ush's theory is right) and that in the end it would take Luke for it all to work out. Now I do doubt they had forseen that.

Yes. Mace Windu and Yoda are probably testing Anakin. The force is strong in the Skywalker family.

Dunno. If USh is wrong, he certainly did detect some weird discrepancies in Jedi Council behaviour.

Indeed. Wierd, this thing is.

But even 'testing' Anakin seems a remarkable risk, seeing as his own tutor says he is arrogant, and he is obviously in many ways immature... and on THAT mission of all missions! One with Padme! I do believe that is more than just chance.

I dunno about Yoda giving up on it- I think OBI-WAN does, but I dunno if Yoda is a bit more distant about it...

"Stopped they must be, on this all depends." That pretty much says it's not going to happen by itself.

That's a pretty cool idea Ush. You should send that one to GL !!
Even if he wasnt thinking along those lines, he might take it up !
That would be a really nice twist in the story.

Oooh, ta.

No, really ! 😎

It certainly seems plausible that they would want Anakin to be free of some of the normal shackles if he is the chosen one, destined to bring balance to the force. However I cannot see them doing this without significant and deep thought about what form this balance will take.

Indeed. It's quite a big sacrifice... and waht will they get in return. I mean, the end of ROTJ looked more like a restoration of the old than something better than before.

Which is why the idea that Vader is a good guy after all has always seemed a bit dodgy to me. Yeah he defeats the Sith... but only after wiping out the Jedi Order in the first place, which I analogise to planting a new treew after burning down the forest, and expecting people to be grateful. Better, surely, to not burn down the forest?

UNLESS, of course, it is shown that Palpatine would have won anyway, Vader or no Vader. But I suspect that Anakin will actually be instrumentla.

I think so too. I love the theory, but it might be a tad too complex for SW.

It's no more complex than the plotline GL already has running.

it's all about the plot.