12's gameplay is not better. I say that as a man playing through 12 (almost finished.... 90 hours in. ) as we speak. It is pretty boring and good to zone out to. The few bits it does get interesting is pretty good, but thats it really. Also FVCK some of the gameplay designs. Like the rare drops and steals needed to get the best weapons or the looooow chances they'll spawn in the chests (1/1000 chance for the second Zodiac Spear. Fvck you.), meaning you have to run backwards and forwards between zones to respawn chests or monsters. FVCK whoever designed those parts. Also Zodiac Spear bullshit as well as the other dick moves Square put in that game.
Personally I quite liked the story of X-2. It and teh whole game were very much laid back for the most part. It was an enjoyable romp. And the bits that were serious (Paines backstory, 'Tidus' running around, Vegnagun) was handled pretty well.
Plus the backrub scene. You know the one.
I loved the gameplay in FFXII. it was much more dinamic, and you had control of any character at any time... but the gambits made it feel like autoplay but still
I didn't care that much about the loot and certainly don't care about a single weapon you don't need to finish the entire game (and any monster available)
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah. It has the best gameplay of any Final Fantasy game. And Paine was awesome.
Uh, no. It was based all around a cop-out excuse to lessen the record-low party member count. That's in addition ****-ifying characters that were already uninteresting enough (yet the best thing to come out of the game was Rikku's new get-up), introducing the 21st century to how corny, generic Jpop-abundant mainstream sci-fi anime atmosphere to JRPG's, and handling turn-based fighting the worst way it can be handled: lessening the actual turn-based aspects, consequently squandering any sense of strategy, the only thing turn-based combat in general has going for it, all for the sake of adding a faster-pace to an inherently slow-paced gameplay system. And Paine can pretty much be tapered down to a more-goth-less-***** Lightning.
Uh, no. It was based all around a cop-out excuse to lessen the record-low party member count.
How so?
That's in addition ****-ifying characters that were already uninteresting enough
How so?
introducing the 21st century to how corny, generic Jpop-abundant mainstream sci-fi anime atmosphere to JRPG's,
How does that reflect the gameplay? And I liked the music.
and handling turn-based fighting the worst way it can be handled: lessening the actual turn-based aspects, consequently squandering any sense of strategy, the only thing turn-based combat in general has going for it, all for the sake of adding a faster-pace to an inherently slow-paced gameplay system.
It doesn't take away your ability to strategise at all. You just need to do it faster. The system is a lot more dynamic and faster-paced as you said. This doesn't lessen it, it improves it. It adds a sense of urgency and detracts from the slowness of turn based gameplay. I don't care if its 'inherently slow-paced', making it faster and more energetic is a good thing. It gets you more invested in action.
And Paine can pretty much be tapered down to a more-goth-less-***** Lightning.
Paine never says anything as dumb as 'WE R PETS!' She actually has all the best lines in the game. Plus her dress-spheres are cooler than the other twos.
I loved the gameplay in FFXII. it was much more dinamic, and you had control of any character at any time... but the gambits made it feel like autoplay but still
Yeah, at times it feels like I'm just pushing the thumb stick from encounter to encounter. Some fights are good though, when they're really challenging.
Challenging as in hard though, not as in 'Ha I throw up a shield that makes me invincible for 5 minutes, fvck you!' The Gilgamesh fight was awesome. Definately a highlight. Except when he pulls that shield bullshit again.
I didn't care that much about the loot and certainly don't care about a single weapon you don't need to finish the entire game (and any monster available)
You don't (though its much, much harder), but its still a dick move on their part. Grinding should stay in MMO's.
Originally posted by Nephthys
How so?How so?
How does that reflect the gameplay? And I liked the music.
It doesn't take away your ability to strategise at all. You just need to do it faster. The system is a lot more dynamic and faster-paced as you said. This doesn't lessen it, it improves it. It adds a sense of urgency and detracts from the slowness of turn based gameplay. I don't care if its 'inherently slow-paced', making it faster and more energetic is a good thing. It gets you more invested in action.
-Trying to add in a number of different styles shared across each character in which the differences can be tapered into maybe three REAL distinct categories is a cop-out that just emphasizes even further the minimal characters. That's how.
-Have you even LOOKED at the characters ffs? Or do you actually think Yuna going from a conservative symbol of hope amongst the people to a Jpop singing celebritant was warranted? The whole Dressphere gimmick just proves my point even further on a gameplay standpoint.
-Not my point. My point on that aspect is that it's the worst atmosphere any Final Fantasy ever had, and the only good thing that can be said of it is that it fit in with the rest of the game. But then there's the part of the game being shit to factor in...
-Yes it does. If they wanted to make a system that requires you to act in fast while also maintaining a sense of strategy, they may as well have made it real-time altogether instead of just adding that kind of senseibility to the turn-based combat. Turn-based combat wasn't made as a system to be dynamic in the sense of fast-paced battles, because that goes against it's entire sense of prioritizing strategy. Trying to make something strategy-based into something skill-based doesn't work when the combat system in question was never made for that--and that's exactly the case here.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
-Have you even LOOKED at the characters ffs? Or do you actually think Yuna going from a conservative symbol of hope amongst the people to a Jpop singing celebritant was warranted? The whole Dressphere gimmick just proves my point even further on a gameplay standpoint.
FFX-2 was a terrible game, but if you're going to complain about it, at least get your complaints right. Yuna didn't actually do the Songstress thing herself - that was LeBlanc impersonating her the first time, and the second time, her being pretty much possessed by Lenne, both because of the dresspheres. Yuna was actually trying to stay pretty low-key and out of the limelight.
-Trying to add in a number of different styles shared across each character in which the differences can be tapered into maybe three REAL distinct categories is a cop-out that just emphasizes even further the minimal characters. That's how.
You mean the dressphere thing? How is that a cop-out? Its just a way to return to the Job system.
Unless that isn't what you mean. I'm not too sure from your wording to be honest.
-Have you even LOOKED at the characters ffs? Or do you actually think Yuna going from a conservative symbol of hope amongst the people to a Jpop singing celebritant was warranted?
That wasn't Yuna.
And yes. The entire story is about trying to recover and have fun after the trauma of Sin and to a more Yuna-centric extent, the loss of Tidus.
The whole Dressphere gimmick just proves my point even further on a gameplay standpoint.
The Dressphere system was just a way to return to the Job-based gameplay a la FF-5. Also as seen half-way down this page it was excellently implimented into FFX's continuity and world.
-Not my point. My point on that aspect is that it's the worst atmosphere any Final Fantasy ever had, and the only good thing that can be said of it is that it fit in with the rest of the game. But then there's the part of the game being shit to factor in...
Worst in your opinion. You have to remember that you are not the target audience for this game. Japan is. And Japan actually kinda likes J-pop.
-Yes it does. If they wanted to make a system that requires you to act in fast while also maintaining a sense of strategy, they may as well have made it real-time altogether instead of just adding that kind of senseibility to the turn-based combat.
That wouldn't have really worked with the system at all. You can't give orders to all 3 characters at once unless you add in a system like Baldur's Gate or something. And we can see how they did make it real-time in FF12 and look at how that turned out.
Turn-based combat wasn't made as a system to be dynamic in the sense of fast-paced battles, because that goes against it's entire sense of prioritizing strategy.
'Prioritizing strategy'? I fail to see how they've eliminated strategy at all. At worst you could say they've lessened your ability to formulate complex strategies by trading your time to plan for a faster pace. Is that inherently bad? No. Its a different take on the formula, one I thinks an excellent blend of real-time and turn-based. Which is what it is. It isn't strictly turn-based anymore, so your argument is moot.
Simply put they've gone from Chess to Speed Chess.
Edit: Plus if you ever need the time to think you can just, y'know, pause the game.
Trying to make something strategy-based into something skill-based doesn't work when the combat system in question was never made for that--and that's exactly the case here.
Well you're just plain wrong. It does work. I've met many poeple who agree it does work. From a technical viewpoint it works. Its a good system.
Originally posted by Someone who isn't Neb
Reminds me more of Yuna than of any of the other FF heroines.
Whats your take on this? You're smart about these things.