The Authority V The Avengers
I know this has sorta been done but not for a while and the line-up nevers seems to be stated. For Jack's sake fight takes place in New York city.
So The Authority versus The Avengers, who wins?
Authority:
Midnighter
Apollo
Jenny Sparks
Doctor (Jeroen, the Dutch one)
The Engineer
Jack Hawksmoor
Avengers:
Captain America
Iron Man
Thor
Hank Pym
Wasp
Hawkeye
Vision
Black Widow
Wonder Man
Tigra
Luke Cage
Ms Marvel
Spider-Woman
She-Hulk
Doctor Strange
Meh, big team battles inevitably have about 80-90% cannon fodder, while 2-3 people decide the battle.
Jeroen would have his hands full. He could match Strange for a while, but would eventually be working against a double team from Strange and Thor (who would eventually down Apollo). Even if he could beat Strange (debatable, and depends on era), he's not taking out both. Only other person who could play with those guys is Engineer, but I can't see her seriously affecting the outcome. Jack could be a similar nuisance, but not a deciding factor. Both outgear Tony and Carol, especially in NYC, but it wouldn't matter.
Strange and Thor ftw. MNer kills lots of street and meta people though before he's eventually dealt with.
Originally posted by Digi
Meh, big team battles inevitably have about 80-90% cannon fodder, while 2-3 people decide the battle.Jeroen would have his hands full. He could match Strange for a while, but would eventually be working against a double team from Strange and Thor (who would eventually down Apollo). Even if he could beat Strange (debatable, and depends on era), he's not taking out both. Only other person who could play with those guys is Engineer, but I can't see her seriously affecting the outcome. Jack could be a similar nuisance, but not a deciding factor. Both outgear Tony and Carol, especially in NYC, but it wouldn't matter.
Strange and Thor ftw. MNer kills lots of street and meta people though before he's eventually dealt with.
lol
i was thinking the same way though maybe with current strange (he is still pretty much a chump, no??) it might be different. i could see the authority taking it. i think strange is the single biggest deciding factor.
Originally posted by leonidas
loli was thinking the same way though maybe with current strange (he is still pretty much a chump, no??) it might be different. i could see the authority taking it. i think strange is the single biggest deciding factor.
I was debating about including Strange at all, but thought someone needs to face off against the Doctor.
Originally posted by Digi
Meh, big team battles inevitably have about 80-90% cannon fodder, while 2-3 people decide the battle.Jeroen would have his hands full. He could match Strange for a while, but would eventually be working against a double team from Strange and Thor (who would eventually down Apollo). Even if he could beat Strange (debatable, and depends on era), he's not taking out both. Only other person who could play with those guys is Engineer, but I can't see her seriously affecting the outcome. Jack could be a similar nuisance, but not a deciding factor. Both outgear Tony and Carol, especially in NYC, but it wouldn't matter.
Strange and Thor ftw. MNer kills lots of street and meta people though before he's eventually dealt with.
I think Doctor could beat Strange. I mean isn't Strange depowered just now? And Doctors from the WS comics seem to warp reality more than just perform spells.
In NYC Jack can do pretty much anything, while I agree he won't be a deciding factor the Avengers are going to have to contend with the city attacking them as well (as long as Jack's alive)
What about Jenny Sparks? Her feats with Authority are limited but impressive. Becoming a giant of pure electricity and frying the brain of something bigger than the moon.
Bump
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Fodder aside, it comes down to Thor and Dr. Strange for the Avengers. The Doctor was frickin powerful. That reality warping thing he was doing is gonna be tough to beat.
Yeah he is really powerful. Turned a spaceship and it's pilot into a bunch or roses without any effort.
No has mentioned Wonderman having a part in this fight.
The Doctor isn't a reality warper. He has time manipulation and very, very powerful matter manipulation at his disposal, but it's a rung down from reality warping.
Originally posted by leonidas
loli was thinking the same way though maybe with current strange (he is still pretty much a chump, no??) it might be different. i could see the authority taking it. i think strange is the single biggest deciding factor.
True. If we take current Strange, I think it might swing in the Authority's favor. We don't really have a definitive power level for Strange though, and he's got a lot of spells at his disposal. So it's a bit of guesswork. I still feel like Thor might chump Apollo before Strange dies (even current) so it wouldn't be easy.
Given Angie and Jack providing some support, I think I'll swing my vote.
Originally posted by The Pict
What about Jenny Sparks? Her feats with Authority are limited but impressive. Becoming a giant of pure electricity and frying the brain of something bigger than the moon.
Thor absorbs her and uses her as a weapon. But seriously, she's limited by her power source. NYC would provide a sizable one if she and Jack worked together, so she could be powerful, just not more than a nuisance. See, after Strange, Thor, and Doctor in some order, the Authority have like the next 3 most powerful, but it won't matter once the big guys determine their fight.
Originally posted by The Pict
No has mentioned Wonderman having a part in this fight.
For good reason.
😛
Avengers.
The heaviest hitter on Authority is the Doctor who Stephen would most likely match up against and hold off. With the Doctor busy, it's basically going to be mostly Thor raping the rest of the Authority along with the Avengers.
Maybe if we use a high end Jenny and John, they'd give him a decent fight.
Originally posted by Digi
The Doctor isn't a reality warper. He has time manipulation and very, very powerful matter manipulation at his disposal, but it's a rung down from reality warping.
I'm not entirely convinced. I know usually it's extremely powerful matter manip but I think it border on reality warping. When a rogue and former Doctor gained Jeroen's powers for an hour he hinted as much.
hmm
Heh. Yes, nice find. Unfortunately, no, he's still not a reality warper. And yes, I am taking that scan into account.
The scan above is refuted by literally dozens of instances where the Doctor directly equates his powers to manipulation of molecules or atoms. There's even a scan where the Authority have been "tampered with" at a sub-atomic level, and the Doctor states that it will take him days to fix it because it's far more nuanced than his own powers usually allow for.
If there were evidence for it, I'd be all over it. But trust me, there's not. That vague statement by the 60's Doctor is the closest you'll find. I'd really rather you just take my word for it, because I don't have time for a scan blitz, but this is the Doctor fanboy telling you this, after having read through every Authority comic numerous times, and after having had to prove this very point in a tournament setting before. If you need, I could go Mythbuster on you like I have beofre when similar issues came up:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10432344#post10432344
...but that shouldn't be needed.
He's got high level matter manipulation, time mainuplation, telekinesis, telepathy, etc. But that's all.
Originally posted by Digithe limits between matter/energy manipulation and reality warping can be blurry, if we throw in spacetime manipulation, telepathy, spiritual powers etc. at what point does reality warping begin exactly? I mean for practical purposes, not just semantics.
Heh. Yes, nice find. Unfortunately, no, he's still not a reality warper. And yes, I am taking that scan into account.The scan above is refuted by literally dozens of instances where the Doctor directly equates his powers to manipulation of molecules or atoms. There's even a scan where the Authority have been "tampered with" at a sub-atomic level, and the Doctor states that it will take him days to fix it because it's far more nuanced than his own powers usually allow for.
If there were evidence for it, I'd be all over it. But trust me, there's not. That vague statement by the 60's Doctor is the closest you'll find. I'd really rather you just take my word for it, because I don't have time for a scan blitz, but this is the Doctor fanboy telling you this, after having read through every Authority comic numerous times, and after having had to prove this very point in a tournament setting before. If you need, I could go Mythbuster on you like I have beofre when similar issues came up:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10432344#post10432344
...but that shouldn't be needed.He's got high level matter manipulation, time mainuplation, telekinesis, telepathy, etc. But that's all.
He's never had "spiritual powers" and his time manip. has been limited to time travel.
Besides, like I said, he's been shown numerous times to have limitations to his matter manipulation powers that wouldn't bother a reality warper in the slightest. I even paraphrased one specific instance that proved this.
Originally posted by DigiI do believe that visiting the garden of memories speaking with the spirits of the previous doctors falls under the category of spiritual powers. IMO his connection with the planet's ecossystem and power over it cannot be reduced to matter manipualtion and involve a spiritual component that is in line with the character's shamanic concept. eg.: ressurecting jenny sparks by infusing her with a year of life harvested from the ecossystem.
He's never had "spiritual powers" and his time manip. has been limited to time travel.Besides, like I said, he's been shown numerous times to have limitations to his matter manipulation powers that wouldn't bother a reality warper in the slightest. I even paraphrased one specific instance that proved this.
I believe that just depends on the level of the reality warper, molecule mand used to struggle with some pretty easy crap, still does sometimes.
He's not Molecule Man, he has much more defined limitations.
The Garden is just an alternate dimension. The nature of his powers may be spiritual in some amorphic sense, but his feats are not.
In any case, even if we call something spiritual, my point stands. He's not a reality warper. He's been stymied by sub-atomic matter manipulation, and couldn't simply "warp" it back into place.