Sexism: How Far Should is Too Far?

Originally posted by The MISTER
I'm old school and I think men should protect their woman rather than let their woman protect them. That could be considered sexist but I don't really care. I've never seen or heard of a woman beating a man to death with her bare hands. If two men want to fight each other I say let them. If an average man and an average woman want to fight I think someone should intervene because I don't see that as them fighting on equal grounds. I do feel that women deserve equal rights as men and should be as much respected as any man. I think it's unrealistic to act as though they're equals though because there are distinct physical/mental differences because of the different hormones.

If the ship is sinking I still feel women and children should be first to get off and if the captain is a woman let her go down with the ship, giving her the same respect you would give a male captain. I think all humans should be treated as equals considering the amount of respect that you show them. Honestly though women are more precious and beautiful than men. Diamonds and gravel aren't equals just because they're both rocks.

Originally posted by Peach
Um, no. No one has ever claimed to be the same. The whole point of the feminist movement is that women are equal to men, and as such deserve the same freedom of choice and rights that men enjoy without even thinking about it. Same =/= equal.

if women want equality then why isn't there an uproar with the majority of women about being apart of the draft.

why is getting framed for workplace sexual harrasement by a spiteful woman more likely to get that man in trouble even if he's innocent.

why is having sex a woman's choice only.

why does there have to be an automatic blanket respect for women just because, well, they're women.

why am i not considered a man if i don't give up my seat to a woman.

why can most women get away with domestic violence (as the assulter) in the justice system most of the time. why does a woman hit you with all her might, with an object, and say "go ahead, i dare you to hit me back! I'll call the police if you do!"

believe me. we live in a country with a highly protected femenine class where everything from the way the ipod looks to movies and tv commercials to tv shows that bash men all day on tv. men are jerks, men are idiots, they're pigs, they can't do the simplest of tasks at home without wifey, they're players, they're to be toyed with. you got movies where if it involves a love interest the point is not to get her mad, or one of a few things will happen: no sex, she'll be mad at you, or she'll hit you and the guy better smile and ok with all of that or he's not a man.

everybody loves raymond, you had the wife in one episode tell the kids to go hit their dad! and the audience laughed! now reverse the roles, the show would've been canceled that week and there would've been a congressional meeting on capitol hill about the "false" rise domestic violence against women on tv just because raymond jokingly implied it as his wife, really, did.

women complain about getting paid 80 cents to men's dollar but that's because we work all day everyday, through, rain, sleet, or snow, till were old and dead, as we're expected too, figuratively speaking. we come in even when were sick most of the time, we have no maternatity leave, no going home early to get the sick kid, no staying home if there's not a babysitter, not as emotional about business, more practical corporate high pressure decision makers, we're more agressive about money, determined, ambitious, go getters, for the most part. 98% of fortune 500 company ceo's are men.

now, i'm for equality. but it cannot be had both ways. that's where the problem arises with me. wanting both. you cannot want to be treated like both a man and a lady (with me, at least.) you gotta pick one. it's just with me, if i'm interested in you, and you want to be treated like a man, i'm good, there's the door. i have male friends already.

and hell, i'm not saying i want a slave but on the other hand why would i want a woman that has the traits of a man. that's just unappealing and annoying as all hell. a some women think guys like that. the tough, strong, gallant, you go girl, mouthy, attitudinal woman of today. news flash we don't. big time. it's a major, a huge turn off. i like a natural femenine women. i don't care what femenists think.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
i like a natural femenine women. i don't care what femenists think.

if:

natural = determined by the expectations and demands of our society

feminists = any woman who doesn't want to have their role and value determined by society

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
if women want equality then why isn't there an uproar with the majority of women about being apart of the draft.

I'm against drafts. I am sure many feminists are, too.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
why is getting framed for workplace sexual harrasement by a spiteful woman more likely to get that man in trouble even if he's innocent.

I'd like to see stats on that.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
why is having sex a woman's choice only.

It is not. If it appears so it may be because men are more willing to have sex, so their choice is always "yes".

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
why does there have to be an automatic blanket respect for women just because, well, they're women.

There doesn't have to be beyond the automatic blanket respect for humans.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
why am i not considered a man if i don't give up my seat to a woman.

Because of backwards chivalry. Something many feminists I know are worried about just like you.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
why can most women get away with domestic violence (as the assulter) in the justice system most of the time. why does a woman hit you with all her might, with an object, and say "go ahead, i dare you to hit me back! I'll call the police if you do!"

Because men tend to not report it as well as society expecting men to be "strong" and "tough". Something most feminists I know fight against as well.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
believe me. we live in a country with a highly protected femenine class where everything from the way the ipod looks to movies and tv commercials to tv shows that bash men all day on tv. men are jerks, men are idiots, they're pigs, they can't do the simplest of tasks at home without wifey, they're players, they're to be toyed with. you got movies where if it involves a love interest the point is not to get her mad, or one of a few things will happen: no sex, she'll be mad at you, or she'll hit you and the guy better smile and ok with all of that or he's not a man.

We live in countries with sexist divides, some in favour of women at the expense of men, most (or at least the most influental ones) in favour of men at the expense of women, neither of which should exist.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
everybody loves raymond, you had the wife in one episode tell the kids to go hit their dad! and the audience laughed! now reverse the roles, the show would've been canceled that week and there would've been a congressional meeting on capitol hill about the "false" rise domestic violence against women on tv just because raymond jokingly implied it as his wife, really, did.

You make a good point. Fight this injustice with us. Become a feminist.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
women complain about getting paid 80 cents to men's dollar but that's because we work all day everyday, through, rain, sleet, or snow, till were old and dead, as we're expected too, figuratively speaking. we come in even when were sick most of the time, we have no maternatity leave, no going home early to get the sick kid, no staying home if there's not a babysitter, not as emotional about business, more practical corporate high pressure decision makers, we're more agressive about money, determined, ambitious, go getters, for the most part.

Some of that is down to it, perhaps, but there is also problems women who do not do that face. And talking about expectations again, women are expected to take maternity leave when they have children, if a man does it it is looked down upon. Feminists lament that.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
98% of fortune 500 company ceo's are men.

Yeah, I am glad you agree that that's skewed, and a sign of unfair male advantages.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
now, i'm for equality. but it cannot be had both ways. that's where the problem arises with me. wanting both. you cannot want to be treated like both a man and a lady (with me, at least.) you gotta pick one. it's just with me, if i'm interested in you, and you want to be treated like a man, i'm good, there's the door. i have male friends already.

So with you, a girl only has the ability to be treated in a chauvinist way, or not be in your life? Why not just treat everyone as humans? Equally, since you pretend in your first sentence to be for equality (though you prove in the latter part that you actually are not at all).

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
and hell, i'm not saying i want a slave but on the other hand why would i want a woman that has the traits of a man. that's just unappealing and annoying as all hell. a some women think guys like that. the tough, strong, gallant, you go girl, mouthy, attitudinal woman of today. news flash we don't. big time. it's a major, a huge turn off. i like a natural femenine women. i don't care what femenists think.

No one says that you have to like women who behave in "traditionally male ways", you are free to choose who you associate with and who you date (though it is rather telling that to you girl = sex object and nothing else), but this is about treatment equality. Pretty unrelated to what you are talking about there.

Originally posted by inimalist
if:

natural = determined by the expectations and demands of our society

feminists = any woman who doesn't want to have their role and value determined by society

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I think his point is that he doesn't care about feminists.

Though, as evident by his post, down to a misconception of what feminism entails. i.e. the old "man-hating, likely lesbian, nagging woman", an idiotic stereotype, perhaps only eclipsed in misunderstanding by what the term anarchy faces.

To connect two discussions 😛

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I think his point is that he doesn't care about feminists.

well, sure, but by his definition, any woman who doesn't want to fall into the common steryotypes that he has is a feminist

Originally posted by Bardock42
I'm against drafts. I am sure many feminists are, too.

I'd like to see stats on that.

It is not. If it appears so it may be because men are more willing to have sex, so their choice is always "yes".

There doesn't have to be beyond the automatic blanket respect for humans.

Because of backwards chivalry. Something many feminists I know are worried about just like you.

Because men tend to not report it as well as society expecting men to be "strong" and "tough". Something most feminists I know fight against as well.

We live in countries with sexist divides, some in favour of women at the expense of men, most (or at least the most influental ones) in favour of men at the expense of women, neither of which should exist.

You make a good point. Fight this injustice with us. Become a feminist.

Some of that is down to it, perhaps, but there is also problems women who do not do that face. And talking about expectations again, women are expected to take maternity leave when they have children, if a man does it it is looked down upon. Feminists lament that.

Yeah, I am glad you agree that that's skewed, and a sign of unfair male advantages.

So with you, a girl only has the ability to be treated in a chauvinist way, or not be in your life? Why not just treat everyone as humans? Equally, since you pretend in your first sentence to be for equality (though you prove in the latter part that you actually are not at all).

No one says that you have to like women who behave in "traditionally male ways", you are free to choose who you associate with and who you date (though it is rather telling that to you girl = sex object and nothing else), but this is about treatment equality. Pretty unrelated to what you are talking about there.

i responded to each of your retorts in order, just in case. i don't know how to divide quotes the way you did.

why would femenists be against the draft? don't they want equality? so they should be able to fight shoulder to shoulder with men on the front lines or face prosecution to the fullest extent if they don't.

and as far as workplace sexual harrasment goes, when you've done nothing, as a man, you're still guilty until proven guilty and that can cost alot for example, your job; reputation, the stigma of the mere existance of the accusation.

and women want sex just as men do. it's just they use it as a loss leader to fulfill self interests.

but it's known that "men have to respect women." it's a saying for christ's sake. imo, no one automatically deserves respect. respect is earned.

and i don't know what backwards chivalry is, never heard of it, but i know when i use to take public transportation, and i sat, and didn't give up my seat to a woman, you could cut the tension in the air with a butterknife. it was if i had leprocy with the up and down looks, the "my goodness" "my god" "you're supose to be a man" looks and reactions were just insane.

and what does men not reporting domestic violence to the police as often as women do have to do with women getting treated as victims were they were the agressor with police telling the man to leave, lick your wounds someplace else, and come back later while the agressor female gets on the spot medical attention for tension hyperactivity and tissues for her tears. how?

well in this case we live in a country with a sexist divide that socially favours women at the expense of men where women are right, even if they're wrong cause it's not about right or wrong it's about how they feel.

and how is the fact that a high percentages of men being ceo's skewed or unfair? surely those companies shouldn't hire women just because they're women? the most experienced and qualified should get the job. that's what wrong with the fighter fighter stations. "hire more women because they're women, forget about them not passing physical tests."

i treat humans as humans. it's just i specifically treat the boys like the boys and a lady like a lady. reverse the roles. i'd be weird. what's so inhuman about that. as long as they're treated as good as they treat me.

and i don't look at girls as sex objects but i am a traditional kinda guy. and femenists think i'm the devil or going to hell for being that way. well screw them.

ha, there's just a pitchfork in hades with my name on it and that's fine by me...

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
i responded to each of your retorts in order, just in case. i don't know how to divide quotes the way you did.

why would femenists be against the draft? don't they want equality? so they should be able to fight shoulder to shoulder with men on the front lines or face prosecution to the fullest extent if they don't.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
If there was no draft, it would be equal, men wouldn't be drafted, women wouldn't be drafted. Feminists have however fought for the right of women to fight on the front lines.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
and as far as workplace sexual harrasment goes, when you've done nothing, as a man, you're still guilty until proven guilty and that can cost alot for example, your job; reputation, the stigma of the mere existance of the accusation.

Still waiting for proof, not a repetition of the point.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
and women want sex just as men do. it's just they use it as a loss leader to fulfill self interests.

I don't think that term means what you think it means. But yeah, perhaps some women can and do use it to make men do things they want, however, how is that wrong or unequal? Men could potentially do the same, if women wanted sex so much with them.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
but it's known that "men have to respect women." it's a saying for christ's sake. imo, no one automatically deserves respect. respect is earned.

I know, feminists aren't for that, in fact is it an old, chauvinist, decidedly non-feminist saying. And fair enough, if no one automatically deserves respect in your opinion, there's no reason women should be exempt.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
and i don't know what backwards chivalry is, never heard of it, but i know when i use to take public transportation, and i sat, and didn't give up my seat to a woman, you could cut the tension in the air with a butterknife. it was if i had leprocy with the up and down looks, the "my goodness" "my god" "you're supose to be a man" looks and reactions were just insane.

I agree, societies expectations for men are horrible too, but again, that's not feminisms fault, that is in fact the fault of a victorian mindset that has survived and that feminism has rebelled against from the very beginning.

Again, if you are outraged by that, do something about it, become a feminist, help fight social inequalities.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
and what does men not reporting domestic violence to the police as often as women do have to do with women getting treated as victims were they were the agressor with police telling the man to leave, lick your wounds someplace else, and come back later while the agressor female gets on the spot medical attention for tension hyperactivity and tissues for her tears. how?

Well, again I'd like to see stats on how prevalent that is. But, also again, I agree that it is ****ed up, and so do feminists.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
well in this case we live in a country with a sexist divide that socially favours women at the expense of men where women are right, even if they're wrong cause it's not about right or wrong it's about how they feel.

Agreed, there is sexism that favours women, and there's sexism that favours men, it's not equal though. And we should eradicate both kinds of sexism. What do you suggest, calling it even? Cause that's hardly fair.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
and how is the fact that a high percentages of men being ceo's skewed or unfair? surely those companies shouldn't hire women just because they're women? the most experienced and qualified should get the job. that's what wrong with the fighter fighter stations. "hire more women because they're women, forget about them not passing physical tests."

No, they shouldn't hire women for the sake of hiring women. But it seems like an immense indication that there is sexism in hiring policies. Unless you think that the top skilled 98% of the population are male, which I don't think is any scientific indication for.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
i treat humans as humans. it's just i specifically treat the boys like the boys and a lady like a lady. reverse the roles. i'd be weird. what's so inhuman about that. as long as they're treated as good as they treat me.

But you treat women the way you are conditioned to view women, and men the way you are conditioned to view men, it's not a natural difference between the sexes that shapes your different behaviour, it's societies indoctrination.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
and i don't look at girls as sex objects but i am a traditional kinda guy. and femenists think i'm the devil or going to hell for being that way. well screw them.

I am a feminist, I don't think you are the devil or going to hell. I'd assume most feminists wouldn't either. I disagree with your view, and I believe you have not giving it rational thought, and rather go by what you have been taught, but I don't hate you for it.

This thread is flawed as many countries have significant and slightly different perceptions of issues. For example in the UK men have real problems seeing there children if the mother makes it hard after a divorce, this is not true in Italy. I have lost count of the stories I have heard about female domestic abuse "victims" for example who have driven their male partners to the point of exasperated fury and then tearfully run to the nearest police office when the inevitable explosion has happened. I personally know a man who has been stabbed three times by his partner. Hit with pieces of wood. Had various heavy objects hurled at him causing all kinds of injuries and who has been subjected to staggering emotional abuse for years. Taken to the point where he could no longer bare it, he left her. Only to have her follow him and attack his house and car. Furious, he called the police who were told by her he was abusing her and he was arrested despite the vast amount of evidence that she was a violent liar. Yet the media is utterly blind to this reality.

So many men, certainly among the young, now take the view that if the government and media have given women Cart Blanche to abuse their male partners, they may as well hit her back because there is no other avenue of redress open to them. So the stupidity of the point of view held by the media, much of academia and the politicians etc., has resulted in more women getting thumped and not less. There is a saying on the streets that aptly makes this point: "If you do not want to get bitten by the Lion don't poke it in the eye." In fact, we treat animals better than people -- especially working class people -- and we do this because we have a media fixated on its own idea of what is important to IT and not to the public. Along with a huge excess of middle class snobbery and egotistical delusions of superiority.

Meow.. Let's dress as cats!

lulz

Women are evil, wither this is due to society or biology is unknown. We get it. New thread topic plulz.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Women are evil, wither this is due to society or biology is unknown. We get it. New thread topic plulz.

Many are Witches you know.

Originally posted by The MISTER
I'm old school and I think men should protect their woman rather than let their woman protect them. That could be considered sexist but I don't really care.

If we were hunters and gatherers, it wouldn't be sexist: it would be essential. It would be similar to a Silver Back's responsabilities.

It's sexist in a modern world because things work much differently, now.

Originally posted by The MISTER
If two men want to fight each other I say let them. If an average man and an average woman want to fight I think someone should intervene because I don't see that as them fighting on equal grounds.

That's a little barbaric of you.

Additionally, by your logic, a mismatch between 2 men should be stopped, as well.

On top of that, two men, both in the same exact cardivascular shape, same strength, same stature, and same weight, could still be on horribly mismatched grounds: one could be a professional fighter or special ops, and the other a recreational fitness guru. Should that mismatch be stopped, as well?

This is why that line of reasoning leads, inevitably, to being sexist. However, I think that a male has a social, moral, and spiritual obligation to protect his wife and children. A women also as the same responsibilities for her husband and children...but to a lesser extent, she shouldn't be expected to be the first one to beat down an attacker of her children unless she's better suited for the task than her husband. And here's where "to a lesser extent" comes into play: men are, on average, better suited to the task.

How do you decide that, though? Actually, my wife and I discussed such things, already. 😉 Any responsible parent should have several discussions about the safety of their children or family.

Now, back on topic: I am barbaric myself and I love to fight, so I have no room to speak, lol.

Originally posted by The MISTER
I do feel that women deserve equal rights as men and should be as much respected as any man. I think it's unrealistic to act as though they're equals though because there are distinct physical/mental differences because of the different hormones.

I wouldn't say that hormones are what makes the difference: really, it would the ratios of cell-site receptors in combination WITH the hormones that make some of the differences. However, the mental part: we can't be sure about.

Originally posted by The MISTER
I think all humans should be treated as equals considering the amount of respect that you show them. Honestly though women are more precious and beautiful than men. Diamonds and gravel aren't equals just because they're both rocks.

I agree.

But, I'm a tad bit different than you are: if a women started hitting me for no damn reason other than she was pissed off at the world, I would not hold back because of the sexist notion that she's a woman and she can't be hit. I would do what's necessary to get her off of me including punching her right back.

Having sex with girls and then not calling them, but having sex with their friends is frowned upon.

Believe me.

Originally posted by Catfurry
This thread is flawed as many countries have significant and slightly different perceptions of issues. For example in the UK men have real problems seeing there children if the mother makes it hard after a divorce, this is not true in Italy. I have lost count of the stories I have heard about female domestic abuse "victims" for example who have driven their male partners to the point of exasperated fury and then tearfully run to the nearest police office when the inevitable explosion has happened. I personally know a man who has been stabbed three times by his partner. Hit with pieces of wood. Had various heavy objects hurled at him causing all kinds of injuries and who has been subjected to staggering emotional abuse for years. Taken to the point where he could no longer bare it, he left her. Only to have her follow him and attack his house and car. Furious, he called the police who were told by her he was abusing her and he was arrested despite the vast amount of evidence that she was a violent liar. Yet the media is utterly blind to this reality.

So many men, certainly among the young, now take the view that if the government and media have given women Cart Blanche to abuse their male partners, they may as well hit her back because there is no other avenue of redress open to them. So the stupidity of the point of view held by the media, much of academia and the politicians etc., has resulted in more women getting thumped and not less. There is a saying on the streets that aptly makes this point: "If you do not want to get bitten by the Lion don't poke it in the eye." In fact, we treat animals better than people -- especially working class people -- and we do this because we have a media fixated on its own idea of what is important to IT and not to the public. Along with a huge excess of middle class snobbery and egotistical delusions of superiority.

Meow.. Let's dress as cats!

why didnt he take the kids with him when he left bc he couldnt take it anymore? Sorry but I dont believe a two sided story...

Originally posted by alltoomany
why didnt he take the kids with him when he left bc he couldnt take it anymore? Sorry but I dont believe a two sided story...