Apocalypse vs Ultron

Originally posted by illadelph12
Smh...

The Phalanx Collective Hive Mind is not one in the same with the TO virus. Ultron subverted the Phalanx Hive Mind and a computer virus which was attempting to corrupt his programming. The TO Virus Apocalypse employs, while similar and based on the same Transmode Model, is more of a physical consumpion/transmutation, not a programming override. You guys are mixing terms.

I'm right.

So how exaclty is this "physical consumption" going to affect Ultron when he can just sync with it and reprogram the TO virus to his whims? Or resist its takeover entirely?

Originally posted by SuperMan103
who has apocalypse ever drained?

Cyclops:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers6.png

Keep in mind that Cyclops' eyes have been said to pour forth an unlimited supply of energy. You know he's gonna drain Ultron's ass if he fights to the best of his abilities.

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm not being picking, I'm comprehending what the writer intended.

He was shocked of what Ultron did because he thought the Phalanx tech was superior, too superior for Ultron to control, apparently it wasn't.

I can't really prove you wrong from what I know. However, I still stand by what I said initially 'cause you haven't proven me wrong either, but are just merely speculating. Regardless, it doesn't matter whether Phalanx was > to Ultron or vice versa when Apocalypse can just drain him.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Cyclops:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers6.png

Keep in mind that Cyclops' eyes have been said to pour forth an unlimited supply of energy. You know he's gonna drain Ultron's ass if he fights to the best of his abilities.

I can't really prove you wrong from what I know. However, I still stand by what I said initially 'cause you haven't proven me wrong either, but are just merely speculating. Regardless, it doesn't matter whether Phalanx was > to Ultron or vice versa when Apocalypse can just drain him.

"Keep in mind that Cyclops' eyes have been said to pour forth an unlimited supply of energy. You know he's gonna drain Ultron's ass if he fights to the best of his abilities."

scan?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
So how exaclty is this "physical consumption" going to affect Ultron when he can just sync with it and reprogram the TO virus to his whims? Or resist its takeover entirely?

The fact that Apocalypse can control it as well, and force Ultron into having to fight off decay and control over his form, whereas Apocalypse is a fully techno-organic being with inherent atomic structure control.

Originally posted by SuperMan103
"Keep in mind that Cyclops' eyes have been said to pour forth an unlimited supply of energy. You know he's gonna drain Ultron's ass if he fights to the best of his abilities."

scan?

http://img518.imageshack.us/i/cyclopsunlimitedenergy1ib5.png/

Ultron eats him.

Originally posted by illadelph12
The fact that Apocalypse can control it as well, and force Ultron into having to fight off decay and control over his form, whereas Apocalypse is a fully techno-organic being with inherent atomic structure control.

Lemme get this straight...

Apoc who is a TO being would beat Ultron who ALREADY beat an entire race of TO beings with ease by taking him over the same FAILED way that the race of TO beings tried (and FAILED) to do?

Ok..... :-/

Smh...

Phalanx tried to override his programming and assimilate him into their collective.

Apocalypse would simply destroy his body.

How is that hard to comprehend?

How would he destroy his body with a virus Ultron can control?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Smh...

Phalanx tried to override his programming and assimilate him into their collective.

Apocalypse would simply destroy his body.

How is that hard to comprehend?

Because the TO-based attack labeled "assimilation" (something that the Phalanx are REALLY REALLY good at) failed pretty miserably?

What's to support your argument that a TO-based attack like body-destruction would work on someone who can take over TO-based lifeforms with ridiculous ease?

Smh...

Ok, let me flesh this out for you guys.

The Transmode, or TO/Techno-organic virus, has derivatives, There's the Technarcy version (i.e.,Magus/Warlock), the Phalanx Version (which is an offshoot of the Technarchy version of Transmode) and the version Apocalypse acquired from the Celestial Ship. All 3 strains of the virus share similar properties, i.e., the consumption and transmutation of organic matter and technology/metal. However, the difference between these strains is that while the Technarchy and Phalanx versions of the techno-organic virus are connected to an artificial intelligence hive mind and you will be assimilated by the respective species by infection/assimilation (if the Phalanx infect you your consciousness becomes part of the collective mind, which is how Ultron was able to take over. Think Lore taking over the Borg in Star Trek TNG), Apocalypse's version of the virus does not do that as he is not part of a techno-organic collective. His version of the virus overwrites the dna of it victims and re-formats their mass into a new host body for Apocalypse, and consumes matter turning it into an inoperative techno-organic husk. You would not, if infected by Apocalypse, suddenly have an uplink into his consciousness in order to subvert him like you would when dealing with the Phalanx.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210And how does one "integrate" one's system into another system. That's right! YOU REPROGRAM IT. The program you're integrating or the program you're integrating to or both.

Well, he obviously didn't reprogram it. He just organized and taught them to be more efficient. They opened themselves up to Ultron.

"Great Ultron's sentience exceeded the parameters of our encoding."

Now, here's a follow-up question, at the end of the "integration", w/c system (Ultron's or the Phalanx's) was changed the most?

They both changed. Ultron became more powerful, the Phalanx gained more experience/sentience/knowledge.

The wording of the HE nothwithstanding, Ultron's identity remained and he was the OBVIOUS dominant consciousness throughout the entire arc.

And he didn't forcibly take over the Phalanx's hive mind as they never 'assimilated'. They only let him take over their mind and become their ruler because of his superior will and sentience. Really, do you think Ultron alone could've caused all that in Annihilation Conquest? It was evident that the Phalanx was the force behind Ultron's will.

Also, throughout the entire arc, did Ultron's personality run counter to his previous incarnations throughout his lifetime? What indicators were shown to PROVE that Ultron's personality was altered in
any significant way?

Above.

Hell, the entire purpose of the Phalanx was rewritten to serve Ultron's whims. I'm sure you read the entire arc, wasn't that fact painfully evident? They SURE wasn't serving the Technarcy there.

The Phalanx wasn't gaining anything during Conquest is what you're saying?

Warlock clearly explains here what the Phalanx is all about:
http://img146.imageshack.us/i/warlockknowsthatapocist.jpg/
They feed on lifeglow and 'assimilate' technology.

How many of the space knights did the Phalanx take over during the arc? A lot of them along with a lot more tech/people. According to Nova, BILLIONS were dying (or did die).

And yes, it was the Phalanx that was taking over, not Ultron.
http://img808.imageshack.us/i/youarephalanxnow.jpg/ (third panel)

Hell, when Ultron was destroyed, the shock of it caused the entire Phalanx to seize functioning, proving further that his personality was strongly driving the Phalanx.

The Phalanx was linked with Ultron's mind ('cause he had taken over their hive mind because they allowed him to as I explained previously).

Phalanx domination, bro. Even Ultron knew it.
http://img535.imageshack.us/i/phalanxdomination.jpg/

Now you answer my question: what is Ultron going to do once Apocalypse decides to drain him like Galactus did in Secret War? I mean he drained Cyclop's seemingly infinite energy, so why wouldn't he be able to do the same here?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Smh...

Ok, let me flesh this out for you guys.

The Transmode, or TO/Techno-organic virus, has derivatives, There's the Technarcy version (i.e.,Magus/Warlock), the Phalanx Version (which is an offshoot of the Technarchy version of Transmode) and the version Apocalypse acquired from the Celestial Ship. All 3 strains of the virus share similar properties, i.e., the consumption and transmutation of organic matter and technology/metal. However, the difference between these strains is that while the Technarchy and Phalanx versions of the techno-organic virus are connected to an artificial intelligence hive mind and you will be assimilated by the respective species by infection/assimilation (if the Phalanx infect you your consciousness becomes part of the collective mind, which is how Ultron was able to take over. Think Lore taking over the Borg in Star Trek TNG), Apocalypse's version of the virus does not do that as he is not part of a techno-organic collective. His version of the virus overwrites the dna of it victims and re-formats their mass into a new host body for Apocalypse, and consumes matter turning it into an inoperative techno-organic husk. You would not, if infected by Apocalypse, suddenly have an uplink into his consciousness in order to subvert him like you would when dealing with the Phalanx.

You talk as if Ultron's technopathy/resistance to tech ONLY works IF he's in some sort of advantageous position over his targets (like being close to the central core) or some sort of specific conditions need to be met for it to work, w/c it doesn't. :-/

edit.

No, I talk as if it doesn't matter. Apocalypse's strain of the virus is not likely to be controlled via technopathy, it simply consumes matter. It's not the same as the Phalanx/Technarchy virus you are using as evidence despite it's techno-organic nature. The only traits they share is their ability to consume and rewrite organic and technological material. Apocalypse's version is more like a cancer wherein victims are consumed and die (like Cable would if not for using all of his telekinesis to stop it from consuming his body). The Phalanx and Technarchy strains assimilate their victims making them one with the techno-organic species. One is more similar to techno-organic vampirism whereas the other is more like techno-organic aids or cancer.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Well, he obviously didn't reprogram it. He just organized and taught them to be more efficient. They opened themselves up to Ultron.

"Great Ultron's sentience [b]exceeded the parameters of our encoding."

They both changed. Ultron became more powerful, the Phalanx gained more experience/sentience/knowledge.

And he didn't forcibly take over the Phalanx's hive mind as they never 'assimilated'. They only let him take over their mind and become their ruler because of his superior will and sentience. Really, do you think Ultron alone could've caused all that in Annihilation Conquest? It was evident that the Phalanx was the force behind Ultron's will.

Above.

The Phalanx wasn't gaining anything during Conquest is what you're saying?

Warlock clearly explains here what the Phalanx is all about:
http://img146.imageshack.us/i/warlockknowsthatapocist.jpg/
They feed on lifeglow and 'assimilate' technology.

How many of the space knights did the Phalanx take over during the arc? A lot of them along with a lot more tech/people. According to Nova, BILLIONS were dying (or did die).

And yes, it was the Phalanx that was taking over, not Ultron.
http://img808.imageshack.us/i/youarephalanxnow.jpg/ (third panel)

The Phalanx was linked with Ultron's mind ('cause he had taken over their hive mind because they allowed him to as I explained previously).

Phalanx domination, bro. Even Ultron knew it.
http://img535.imageshack.us/i/phalanxdomination.jpg/

Now you answer my question: what is Ultron going to do once Apocalypse decides to drain him like Galactus did in Secret War? I mean he drained Cyclop's seemingly infinite energy, so why wouldn't he be able to do the same here? [/B]

Originally posted by illadelph12
No, I talk as if it doesn't matter. Apocalypse's strain of the virus is not likely to be controlled via technopathy, it simply consumes matter. It's not the same as the Phalanx/Technarchy virus you are using as evidence despite it's techno-organic nature. The only traits they share is their ability to consume and rewrite organic and technological material. Apocalypse's version is more like a cancer wherein victims are consumed and die (like Cable would if not for using all of his telekinesis to stop it from consuming his body). The Phalanx and Technarchy strains assimilate their victims making them one with the techno-organic species. One is more similar to techno-organic vampirism whereas the other is more like techno-organic aids or cancer.

how many wins do you guys give apocalypse out of 10 for each scenario?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Well, he obviously didn't reprogram it. He just organized and taught them to be more efficient. They opened themselves up to Ultron.

Of COURSE he reprogrammed it...! How the heck would you "organize and re-teach" a technological system anyway???

Hell, even their APPEARANCE changed the SECOND he took them over. Sheesh.

Proof that they "opened themselves up to him"? The Phalanx existed to serve the Technarchy with zealous single-mindedness, why the hell would they open themselves up to a new master??

Originally posted by TheTyrant
"Great Ultron's sentience [b]exceeded the parameters of our encoding."[/B]

Yes, he was more powerful than their programming, what's your point?

IF anything (due to his sentient binding with theirs), this is further proof that some reprogramming occured.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
They both changed. Ultron became more powerful, the Phalanx gained more experience/sentience/knowledge.

You didn't get my question, it was about whose personality changed the most.

The Phalanx were completely under Ultron's thrall. The fact that some exhibited seemingly "independent" thought doesn't take away that they serve him.

It was pretty obvious

Your obviously pro-Apoc skewed perceptions nothwithstanding.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
And he didn't forcibly take over the Phalanx's hive mind as they never 'assimilated'. They only let him take over their mind and become their ruler because of his superior will and sentience. Really, do you think Ultron alone could've caused all that in Annihilation Conquest? It was evident that the Phalanx was the force behind Ultron's will.

Um. When did I mention that Ultron

The point is that Ultron took over the Phalanx race completely. There was no "joining of goals". He was their supreme master and they did what he wanted.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Above.

Above? Above what? You didn't provide anything.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
The Phalanx wasn't gaining anything during Conquest is what you're saying?

Warlock clearly explains here what the Phalanx is all about:
http://img146.imageshack.us/i/warlockknowsthatapocist.jpg/
They feed on lifeglow and 'assimilate' technology.

How many of the space knights did the Phalanx take over during the arc? A lot of them along with a lot more tech/people. According to Nova, BILLIONS were dying (or did die).

And yes, it was the Phalanx that was taking over, not Ultron.
http://img808.imageshack.us/i/youarephalanxnow.jpg/ (third panel)[/B][/QUOTE]

Wow. Talk about skewed interpretations....

Did you even READ Annihilation: Conquest? The entire Arc was the Phalanx doing Ultron's bidding in order for him to evolve and to dominate known space. The Phalanx were his army and did most of the work for him, that is true. He "evolved" the Phalanx to serve him better but that's all they did. Serve him. Everything there was done according to his will. How you can even imply that Ultron was somehow furthering the MAIN goals of the Phalanx is beyond me.

FYI, the Phalanx is an offshoot race created by the Technarchy to "harvest" lifeglow from worlds and then to contact their Technarch masters via babel spires for them to come and feed. This was explained in an issue of Nova or in Annihilation: Conquest but I'll try and remember where I read that from (I'll try to find it from my mounds of comics).

Originally posted by TheTyrant
The Phalanx was linked with Ultron's mind ('cause he had taken over their hive mind because they allowed him to).

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Phalanx domination, bro. Even Ultron knew it.
http://img535.imageshack.us/i/phalanxdomination.jpg/

Wow. Did you READ the second sentence???

"The authority of Great Ultron WILL BE ABSOLUTE!"

How can it be absolute if he was being dominated?

Lol. Funny guy.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Now you answer my question: what is Ultron going to do once Apocalypse decides to drain him like Galactus did in Secret War? I mean he drained Cyclop's seemingly infinite energy, so why wouldn't he be able to do the same here?

LOL @ Cyclops' "infinite energy" argument. Apocalypse IS NOT Galactus, you shmoe.

Also, Did YOU READ MY replies? I mentioned that Apoc has a chance simply by shrinking down and effing up Ultron's circuitry from the inside. It was the TO virus nonsense that I was arguing against.

Would be nice if you would actually read everything I posted before jumping in front of your Apocalypse love bunny and protecting him from ppl who might even be arguing in his behalf... :-/

Originally posted by illadelph12
No, I talk as if it doesn't matter. Apocalypse's strain of the virus is not likely to be controlled via technopathy, it simply consumes matter. It's not the same as the Phalanx/Technarchy virus you are using as evidence despite it's techno-organic nature. The only traits they share is their ability to consume and rewrite organic and technological material. Apocalypse's version is more like a cancer wherein victims are consumed and die (like Cable would if not for using all of his telekinesis to stop it from consuming his body). The Phalanx and Technarchy strains assimilate their victims making them one with the techno-organic species. One is more similar to techno-organic vampirism whereas the other is more like techno-organic aids or cancer.

If technopathy can't control it, then how the hell is Apoc controlling it then?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

i think you're both making some points. but tyrant always seems to be very biased for apocalypse.

Apocalypse better pull out some serious tricks out of his ass or his leaving this fight in a body bag.