Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
I am looking at that part of the world's track record. The only majority muslim country on earth to ever have anything resembling democracy is Turkey and there are the rumblings of radical Islam there as well. I think Egypt is in real danger of becoming an Islamic theocracy and that should scare the hell out of everyone. As bad as Egypt's current regime is it would be better for both the world, and the people of Egypt, for it to stay in power than for a bunch of fire breathing Imans or Mullahs to come to power.
4 reasons why egpyt's revolution is not islamic:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haroon-moghul/4-reasons-why-egypts-revo_b_815848.html
Originally posted by The Dark Cloudwho's pulling the strings?
The rioters are only the tool.
Originally posted by red g jacks
4 reasons why egpyt's revolution is not islamic:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haroon-moghul/4-reasons-why-egypts-revo_b_815848.html
I hope you are right
Originally posted by red g jacks
4 reasons why egpyt's revolution is not islamic:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haroon-moghul/4-reasons-why-egypts-revo_b_815848.html
who's pulling the strings?
http://twitter.com/arabist/status/30786981814341632
That made me lol.
So THAT'S why they were so angry. 😆
Originally posted by red g jacks
4 reasons why egpyt's revolution is not islamic:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haroon-moghul/4-reasons-why-egypts-revo_b_815848.html
who's pulling the strings?
Noone's claiming that the revolution is inspired or instigated by Islam but the fact remains that the largest and most powerful opposition party to Mubarak is the Muslim Brotherhood. Even if they are not hugely active in the revolution doesn't mean they couldn't gain power when the dust settles.
from what i've read they aren't a very potent force in this revolution... and even if they were they aren't the hard line 'islam will conquer' tyrants that they're depicted as.. the likelihood that sharia law or some form of theocracy will ensue seems to be unfounded. people are making demands, which seem largely based on the want for freedom. i think it's overly pessimistic to assume that all muslims are inherently bound for theocratic dictatorships when given any sense of self determination.
i don't know how this is going to end, but i'm willing to hear these people out and see what ensues. my main concern is not that they will erect an islamic theocracy but that if enough of these arab states revolt they could target israel either directly or politically, and they could (or probably would) subsequently be attacked by the united states.
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
This is Iran, 32 years later. Muslim extremeists will take control of Egypt (and thus the Suez Canal) and possibly Jordan, and even Saudi Arabia. Oil will shoot to $250 a barrell. Any peace agreement that Egypt had signed with Israel will be moot. This could destablize the already fragile global economy and who knows, spark a major war.This isn't good.
I'm sorry, but the comparison between the Iranian revolution and the one in Egypt exists only in the fact there are brown people protesting in the streets
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
I am looking at that part of the world's track record. The only majority muslim country on earth to ever have anything resembling democracy is Turkey and there are the rumblings of radical Islam there as well. I think Egypt is in real danger of becoming an Islamic theocracy and that should scare the hell out of everyone. As bad as Egypt's current regime is it would be better for both the world, and the people of Egypt, for it to stay in power than for a bunch of fire breathing Imans or Mullahs to come to power.
/facepalm
Originally posted by inimalist
I'm sorry, but the comparison between the Iranian revolution and the one in Egypt exists only in the fact there are brown people protesting in the streets/facepalm
Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah seriously, I can't imagine what it would take to convince him there is positive change in the region. Since his perspective seems to be "any change will make extremists take over and attack Israel".
well like, its true that a power vaccum can be filled by even worse extremists. And I guess there is a chance that the Muslim Brotherhood could come to power through... God... Some complete change in the way the protest is going...
But seriously? no, not going to happen. What might happen is the military might just install someone who is their man, but anything aside from the promise of free elections isn't going to get the people off the street at this point, same with what happened in Tunisia.
Will it happen? maybe... like I said in the Tunisia thread, if there was ever a time for the international community to stick its nose in somewhere, ensuring the transition from dictator to democracy seems a good one to me.
EDIT: and I am fairly sure every single fact he presented in his paragraph is actually false
Originally posted by inimalist
Will it happen? maybe... like I said in the Tunisia thread, if there was ever a time for the international community to stick its nose in somewhere, ensuring the transition from dictator to democracy seems a good one to me.
Like I said earlier, the US really needs to quit this "backing hated dictators" stuff. Its been our foreign policy for the last 100 years, and its getting old.
****, I just had to do this:
Nations with majority Muslim populations that are also democracies:
Nigeria
Burkina Faso
Lebanon
Malaysai (still a monarchy, elected parliment[with exceptions])
Sudan (iffy, 2010 elections saw al Bashir take a majority again, but with only 68%, indicating he didn't have total control of the mechanisms [for instance, in Egypt and Khazikstan, the leaders get 98% of the vote and no other parties get any power])
Sierra Leone
Albania
Bahrain (democratic monarchy)
Guinea (as of 2010)
Indonesia
Kosovo
Bangladesh
Mali
Kuwait (democratic monarchy)
The Gambia
Senegal
Pakistan
Turkey
Palestine
Algeria
Jordan (democratic monarchy)
Comoros
Maldives
Niger [a democratically elected leader who tried to sieze power was recently removed in a coup, with elections held at the end of January 2011 to replace him]
Morocco (democratic monarchy)
Iraq
Yemen
Mauritania
Azerbaijan
Afghanistan
are there issues with political freedom in (many of) these nations? undoubtedly. Are they democracies, yes.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Likely not going to happen, given that the dictator survived by the support of the international community.Like I said earlier, the US really needs to quit this "backing hated dictators" stuff. Its been our foreign policy for the last 100 years, and its getting old.
oh, no, I'm totally with you here
I don't think there will be an Islamist or even sectarian government in place in Egypt. I wouldn't count out another military leader, but I do think we will see politics open up tremendously.
oh, and about the US:
/facepalm
(if you follow TYT on youtube, they have some good videos on this)
Originally posted by inimalist
Nations with majority Muslim populations that are also democracies:[...]
Pakistan
[...]
Yemen
[...]
Afghanistanare there issues with political freedom in (many of) these nations? undoubtedly. Are they democracies, yes.
Yeah...right. "Issues"? Any country where being gay is a capital crime, or where rape victims are punished shouldn't be called democracies. Those countries (including some of the other ones that were on your list, but these^ three especially) are "democracies" the same way North Korea is a "Democratic People's Republic". Ay guey, gimme a break...
actually, those nations hold elections, that being the definition of democracy.
the same way Gunatanamo doesn't make America any less of a democracy.
I'm not saying they don't have terrible human rights abuses, and I would definatly say human rights are much more important than is the ability to elect the people who are your abusers. There is a really interesting, if depressing, trend in many of these nations, especially in north africa, where voter turn out is like 35% for exactly the reasons you outlined, people have lost faith in the system, though of course, they still have the ability to elect people
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Those countries (including some of the other ones that were on your list, but these^ three especially) are "democracies" the same way North Korea is a "Democratic People's Republic". Ay guey, gimme a break...
s-seriously... 😕