Akuma vs. Entei

Originally posted by TheGoldenSpy
It could be that he hasn't progressed as much as you would like to think.

No. I didn't say his Oni form is weaker. I have been trying to explain that all those instances of him doing something over the top IE Destroying the sub, nuking the forest, cracking ayers rock sinking the island and erupting the volcano are not common casual occurences for him. They are meant to be shown as great displays of power. Especially when you consider that ryu did not splatter into fine red mist while he was fighting Akuma yet at the end of the fight he pulls an island sinker out of nowhere. I believe that was a display of Shin Akuma's full destructive power NOT him holding back.

I don't believe him not changing colors in those instances has any relevence at all when he has full control of the killing intent. That sprite is only when he goes on full fights. Destroying the island only took one fast punch. Why would he change colors for one quick display of power?

And then explain this. Why is it that while he isn't holding back in his more experienced Oni form his striking power is about the same as at was when YOU think he was holding back? Is it because his oni form is weaker than what you believe to be his normal form? I don't think so.

I believe all those feats from the past games where from him NOT holding back, and that matches up fairly well with his recent striking power feat.

And I may be coming off as someone trying to lowball akuma, but i'm honestly not. He's very powerful, I can see that. I don't however think or agree with the idea that he did every one of those things while holding back. Doesn't make sense to me, and this recent oni appearence kinda lends credability to that.

No.

No. And Ryu is stated to be 'beyond' SFA2 Akuma so he is pretty damn tough. And what makes this funny is that SFA2 Akuma is stated to be around SFA Gen's level. While he may have put some effort into that punch, it was not enough to cause him to go Shin, clearly.

No. lol, this is especialy funny(another DBZ analogy) cuz this is like sayin Goku can use SSJ level attacks without going SSJ.

Cuz one was a punch with the intent of destroying his island and the other was a punch with the intent to erupt a volcano, like his kick that was meant to take out the sunken ship and his punch that was meant to split a mountain. He intended to erupt the valcano, not destroy the world...all his feats have him standin somewhere, intending to do specific things in which he does. He is never just standin somwhere goin all out blindly for the hell of it. His targets are specific.

Yes you are, No you don't, that is fine but you are wrong, and no it doesn't. You are sayin that Akuma is tappin into powers from forms Capcom hadn't even invented, yet. That is silly, Akuma's levels of powers are clearly represented in each itteration.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Go play Street Fighter you fool.

fool....? why... i dont think i said anything that bad to expect that kind of reply... anyhow... i forgive you... but try it again... and so help me God... i will make sure u never post here...

Have fun 🙂

Originally posted by No End N Site

Cuz one was a punch with the intent of destroying his island and the other was a punch with the intent to erupt a volcano, like his kick that was meant to take out the sunken ship and his punch that was meant to split a mountain. He intended to erupt the valcano, not destroy the world...all his feats have him standin somewhere, intending to do specific things in which he does. He is never just standin somwhere goin all out blindly for the hell of it. His targets are specific.

Ncredibly well put! He was standing N a volcano, what did U Xpect him 2 do? Normal Gouki made an island worth of volcanos erupt.

U can C just by Oni's specials and ultras that he is far superior 2 any form of Gouki 2 date.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
Normal Gouki made an island worth of volcanos erupt.

Where did this happen?

He's talking about the Alpha 2 ending. After he punches it, volcanoes erupt.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Huh, do not remember this.

Where did this happen?

From the SFEC...

Island's got volcanos all over it.

Ohhhhhh right, I forgot that the volcanoes erupted after he punched the island. Kewl.

I erupt volcanoes simply by waking up in the morning. Akuma's feat isn't impressive.

You mean his "feet" aren't? 😛

Originally posted by No End N Site
Oni is Akuma, tho...

a) TC mentions Shin Akuma in the OP.
And while that mean much...

b) We don't know if Oni is a transformation that Akuma can invoke willingly. The fact that Oni doesn't appear in SF3, makes me believe that it was just a transformation that was brought about by external factors. Hell, we don't even know if it's canon.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Makin a volcano erupt is clearly not all he can do, it was just a chop. And no, he wasn't shin when he blew up the island. Akuma has 'never' been Shin.

So you've been here all this time and don't know the difference between Akuma and Shin Akuma?

Using CvS Pictures to justify the difference between normal and Shin? Really?

The White hair thing is ridiculous IMO (seeing as his SF2/SSF4 versions have what looks like his normal hair colour, while his SF3 SI/TS versions have a hair color that is most definitely not white), but not as ridiculous as the notion that his gi supposedly changes colour the moment he starts to use his true power.
Personally, I think it's the same as Evil Ryu having a Dark Blue/different coloured Gi in his game appearances. Yet I seriously doubt Ryu's White Gi turned Dark Blue/changed colour for an instant when he Metsu Shoryuken'd Sagat. IMO, it's just a way to differentiate between the two versions in-game, akin to palettes.

It's not a transformation, certainly not a DBZ-style one, IMO. It's more of a 'power boost', except Akuma is simply accessing power that he already has, but has decided to lock away.

Also, when he is training or using a move on the environment, he has no reason to hold back his power like he usually does in a fight. The only reason Akuma ever holds back his true power, is to give his opponents a chance to fight back.
Unless you think he wants to give the Ayers rock, or a forest or submarine, the chance to fight back.
That said, he also has no reason to use all of his power, but it would be ridiculous for him to hold himself back so much while training, when the only reason he holds back, is to give an opponent a fighting chance.

Against Gouken, a man that rivals him, he wouldn't hold back. Especially not if his deadliest technique was rendered useless.
Even against Gen initially, he may not have held back, after using the Shun Goku Satsu, and before breaking off the fight. Granted, that was Alpha Gouki, who as you say, is much weaker when compared to SF3 Gouki.

Also, that sprite you were talking about. May I see it? May just prove that Akuma's gi does in fact change colour when he uses his true power, which is still ridiculous. Though I still think it's just a gameplay thing.

EDIT: Never mind, his SF3 SI version does have White hair, but his other gameplay appearances in the main series do not. Just the different coloured gi, and perhaps a slightly different shade of hair color in TS.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
a) TC mentions Shin Akuma in the OP.
And while that mean much...

b) We don't know if Oni is a transformation that Akuma can invoke willingly. The fact that Oni doesn't appear in SF3, makes me believe that it was just a transformation that was brought about by external factors. Hell, we don't even know if it's canon.

Using CvS Pictures to justify the difference between normal and Shin? Really?

The White hair thing is ridiculous IMO (seeing as his SF2/SSF4 versions have what looks like his normal hair colour, while his SF3 SI/TS versions have a hair color that is most definitely not white), but not as ridiculous as the notion that his gi supposedly changes colour the moment he starts to use his true power.

Personally, I think it's the same as Evil Ryu having a Dark Blue/different coloured Gi in his game appearances. Yet I seriously doubt Ryu's White Gi turned Dark Blue/changed colour for an instant when he Metsu Shoryuken'd Sagat. IMO, it's just a way to differentiate between the two versions in-game, akin to palettes.

It's not a transformation, certainly not a DBZ-style one, IMO. It's more of a 'power boost', except Akuma is simply accessing power that he already has, but has decided to lock away.

Also, when he is training or using a move on the environment, he has no reason to hold back his power like he usually does in a fight. The only reason Akuma ever holds back his true power, is to give his opponents a chance to fight back.

Unless you think he wants to give the Ayers rock, or a forest or submarine, the chance to fight back.
That said, he also has no reason to use all of his power, but it would be ridiculous for him to hold himself back so much while training, when the only reason he holds back, is to give an opponent a fighting chance.

Against Gouken, a man that rivals him, he wouldn't hold back. Especially not if his deadliest technique was rendered useless.
Even against Gen initially, he may not have held back, after using the Shun Goku Satsu, and before breaking off the fight. Granted, that was Alpha Gouki, who as you say, is much weaker when compared to SF3 Gouki.

Also, that sprite you were talking about. May I see it? May just prove that Akuma's gi does in fact change colour when he uses his true power, which is still ridiculous. Though I still think it's just a gameplay thing.

EDIT: Never mind, his SF3 SI version does have White hair, but his other gameplay appearances in the main series do not. Just the different coloured gi, and perhaps a slightly different shade of hair color in TS.

I know. Never disputed that...

I know. Never disputed that...

And this is why you do just a tad bit of research before you hop into a debate and make ignorant claims (it irratates me to no end when people do this, only speak surely of the characters you actually know about). If you had, you would have known that the CVS color of Shin Akuma appears on several of Capcom's official SF controllers, CFE, and ALL of Capcom's official toy and statue lines have the CVS2 version. So yeah, really. It's nothin more than a combination of the 3rd Strike and Alpha shin Akuma colors. And CVS2 did come out AFTER 3S.

And that is where you are wrong. Very very wrong. It is officially stated that their gi's change color, along with their bodies, to represent the influence of the SNH. This is why bosses like Shin Bison and Shin Seth DON'T CHANGE at all from their original appearances. Evil Ryu and Shin change cuz they actually DO change in their story. It is also why their official out-of-game and in-game art have them rockin those colors. And FYI, Ryu NEVER went totally Evil. The Evil Ryu in the games are what-if versions. When he DPed Sagat he was tappin into the power, not fully using it.

It's just like going SSJ, actually. Saiyins are accessing power that they already have, it's just locked away.

Akuma is not trying to destroy the enviroment in his endings. He clearly has specific targets that destroys everytime.

Again, Akuma is not trying to destroy the enviroment in his endings. He clearly has specific targets. And so far, these targets have not required him to go shin so that he may destroy them. Akuma goes Shin for FIGHTS. Not just to phuck shit up. If you don't have to summon all your might to bust a battle ship, why would you? Clearly it's over kill and that aint Akuma's style.

When Akuma fought Gen and Gouken it was so long ago that I doubt he was powerful enough to have a Shin mode. And Capcom has not shown any official current fights between these men. We don't know what he has to do to beat them now.

If you had actually looked back at some of the things I said, you would have seen this...

Originally posted by Me
Every instance of Shin being shown has him with purple gi, white hair, or both.

I never said that he was railgated to his CVS2 form, but there is always some sort of change...ignoring that is downright ridiculous and foolish. Your trying to find your way around a subject that there is simply only a straight path through. And another FYI, Shin Akuma is not in 3S.

Found it!
Just to show that Shin Akuma actually does "magically" transform, when they coulda just went the SFII route and just gave Akuma Shin Akuma's powers...
YouTube video

Originally posted by No End N Site

I know. Never disputed that...

I know. Never disputed that...

And this is why you do just a tad bit of research before you hop into a debate and make ignorant claims (it irratates me to no end when people do this, only speak surely of the characters you actually know about). If you had, you would have known that the CVS color of Shin Akuma appears on several of Capcom's official SF controllers, CFE, and ALL of Capcom's official toy and statue lines have the CVS2 version. So yeah, really. It's nothin more than a combination of the 3rd Strike and Alpha shin Akuma colors. And CVS2 did come out AFTER 3S.

And that is where you are wrong. Very very wrong. It is officially stated that their gi's change color, along with their bodies, to represent the influence of the SNH. This is why bosses like Shin Bison and Shin Seth DON'T CHANGE at all from their original appearances. Evil Ryu and Shin change cuz they actually DO change in their story. It is also why their official out-of-game and in-game art have them rockin those colors. And FYI, Ryu NEVER went totally Evil. The Evil Ryu in the games are what-if versions. When he DPed Sagat he was tappin into the power, not fully using it.

It's just like going SSJ, actually. Saiyins are accessing power that they already have, it's just locked away.

Akuma is not trying to destroy the enviroment in his endings. He clearly has specific targets that destroys everytime.

Again, Akuma is not trying to destroy the enviroment in his endings. He clearly has specific targets. And so far, these targets have not required him to go shin so that he may destroy them. Akuma goes Shin for FIGHTS. Not just to phuck shit up. If you don't have to summon all your might to bust a battle ship, why would you? Clearly it's over kill and that aint Akuma's style.

When Akuma fought Gen and Gouken it was so long ago that I doubt he was powerful enough to have a Shin mode. And Capcom has not shown any official current fights between these men. We don't know what he has to do to beat them now.

If you had actually looked back at some of the things I said, you would have seen this...

I never said that he was railgated to his CVS2 form, but there is always some sort of change...ignoring that is downright ridiculous and foolish. Your trying to find your way around a subject that there is simply only a straight path through. And another FYI, Shin Akuma is not in 3S.

Then why even bring it up?

Then why even bring it up?

I never said the CvS artwork was unofficial. However, that artwork appearing on controllers/toys does not mean it is canon to the actual SF verse.
Yes, and SSF4 came out AFTER CvS2, though that's fairly moot.
Can I see the statement then?

No, it's far more akin to Freeza's transformations, than a Super Saiyan one. He's limiting himself, like Freeza usually does. Though I was referring to the form changes when I said DBZ-style transformation.

No, he wouldn't have to go full power to bust shit up like a submarine, and I clearly said that as well. But there's no reason that he would limit himself severely, like he does in fight, especially when the only reason he limits himself, is so that an opponent isn't pwned faster than one can say "Jack Rabbit".
I thought he severely limited himself for fights only, rather than severely limiting himself all the time, and using all of his power for a hard fight only.

I was referring to the time he fought Gouken in SF4, not way before SF1.

Also, FYI, in the arcade version of TS, Shin Akuma does exist. He's incomplete though.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Found it!
Just to show that Shin Akuma actually does "magically" transform, when they coulda just went the SFII route and just gave Akuma Shin Akuma's powers...
YouTube video

Ah, awesome. K, so he does transform.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Then why even bring it up?

Then why even bring it up?

I never said the CvS artwork was unofficial. However, that artwork appearing on controllers/toys does not mean it is canon to the actual SF verse.

Yes, and SSF4 came out AFTER CvS2, though that's fairly moot.

Can I see the statement then?

No, it's far more akin to Freeza's transformations, than a Super Saiyan one. He's limiting himself, like Freeza usually does. Though I was referring to the form changes when I said DBZ-style transformation.

No, he wouldn't have to go full power to bust shit up like a submarine, and I clearly said that as well. But there's no reason that he would limit himself severely, like he does in fight, especially when the only reason he limits himself, is so that an opponent isn't pwned faster than one can say "Jack Rabbit".

I thought he severely limited himself for fights only, rather than severely limiting himself all the time, and using all of his power for a hard fight only.

I was referring to the time he fought Gouken in SF4, not way before SF1.

Also, FYI, in the arcade version of TS, Shin Akuma does exist. He's incomplete though.

I didn't...

^

My point was that Shin Akuma's color scheme in CVS2 is not inadmissable like you made it seem. The Alpha, III, IV, and CVS are all equally legit representation on how he appears according to Capcom. And at the time Capcom decided on CVS2's version of Shin. That version was everywhere.

And in SSFIV, they shifted back to the Alpha version for whatever reason. The point is, there is still a clrear change.

Sure can...

The Freeza and SSJ are the same thing. The only difference is, Freeza knew he had the power while most Saiyins don't (for their 1st time).

Unless there is a clear visable change, Akuma is not shin. This is akin to people trainin with weights on. Or sparrin with wooden weapons and trainin gear. It's just practice. Akuma is already as strong as he wants to be.

Akuma limits himself period, it's why in canon, shin has 'never' made an appearance.

The actual fight between Gouken and Akuma in SFIV was never shown, But we know there is both Shin versions for each character, Gouken rocks black and Akuma rocks purple.

I know that, but unless you can hack the machine, he is not playable. He does not count.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You mean his "feet" aren't? 😛

wow i never played 2nd impact... only new generation in arcades and third strike on pc... 2nd impact was really ....different....

in this video you can cleary see that Oni does not address himself as Akuma, he just address himself as simply Oni.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFwr4jYHPi0

edit: in canon the aura that shines on Akuma's back in the form of the Ten symbol is the aura of a Onigami ( fierece god) that resides within Akuma. this Onigami is what gives Akuma his glowing red eyes. however this Onigami does not possesed him so every singel on of Akuma's feats him been of his own merit.

note: this is from the AASFZ3 handbook.