Originally posted by Deadline
He never did anything to Void fully formed or not.
Listen, this is like our tenth debate regarding this topic. For the last time, we aren't going to get anywhere if we don't read the fight.
Originally posted by Deadline
No they weren't Void was clearly holding back and could have kicked his arse at any moment Sentry was tripping on power. Are you seriously trying to tell me that Void couldn't have dodged Thors initial attack when he was able to react Ares who attacked from behind?Void was clearly out of Thors league because he was able to bring his house down and Thor couldn't do ****all to stop it.
Copy and paste what I said above. Since you’re having such a hard time deciphering the text, here Osborn orders Sentry to kill Thor:
And what does the Sentry/Void thing say when it gets there:
*Gasp*
You can tell yourself whatever you like if it helps you sleep at night but the Void/Sentry was trying to kill Thor. Unfortunately for him, Thor’s tougher than Ares or Loki.
Haha, are you really using Ares' performance as a basis for how Thor should perform?
Thor blasted Sentry apart. Void came out to Thor's shock. He had the advantage and immediately flew to destroy Agard.
^That the series of events that occurred since you seem to have not read the issue. Seeing as how the Sentry is a trans light character, him immediately speeding away from Thor and dive-bombing Asgard doesn't really mean much. It sure as hell isn't proof of him being beyond Thor.
Seriously, out of all the other sh*t you could use, you picked a scene that proves so little. Truly a skill. 👆
It would have been much better to use the Void gaining the advantage when it almost fully manifested. File that away for future reference.
The Void and all it’s glory was being held back by Thor:
And here some more goodies I came across:
Originally posted by Deadline
Do we? Um it was supposed to be taken metaphorically it doesn't have to apply to blunt force trauma but it can apply to different powers.
K.
Originally posted by Deadline
He was previoulsy amped by the Norn stones and had help from other heroes without that Thor would have ben ****ed.
The last scene was just the typical moment when the hero steps it up a notch when previously all the power he could muster wasn't enough. It was just less....heroic because it's Bendis.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Listen, this is like our tenth debate regarding this topic. For the last time, we aren't going to get anywhere if we don't read the fight.
I never bothered to finish our previous debates anyway.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Copy and paste what I said above. Since you’re having such a hard time deciphering the text, here Osborn orders Sentry to kill Thor:And what does the Sentry/Void thing say when it gets there:
*Gasp*
You can tell yourself whatever you like if it helps you sleep at night but the Void/Sentry was trying to kill Thor. Unfortunately for him, Thor’s tougher than Ares or Loki.
I'm not arguing that he wasn't trying to kill Thor I'm arguing that he was holding back because he was drunk on power. Y'know kinda like what happened when Sentry fought WWH. Yea Thor is tougher than Ares don't think he's tougher than Loki with Norn Stones though.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haha, are you really using Ares' performance as a basis for how Thor should perform?
Sure I am. Thor maybe tougher than Ares but is there a massive gap between Thors speed and fighting ability? My point is even if you think Thor is faster it's pretty reasonable to assume its going to be much more difficult to counter an attack from Ares from behind without looking (only reacted at the last moment because as far as Void was concerned he had it all under control) than it is to react to Thors first initial attack. If you would like to post it, it sure didn't look like Thor was moving at superspeed and Sentry had 100 years to dodge it.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor blasted Sentry apart. Void came out to Thor's shock. He had the advantage and immediately flew to destroy Agard.
Thor hit Sentry with lightning that doesn't mean he blasted him apart or it even hurt him (not exactly sure what scene you are refering to). I'm not sure what you're arguing but you seem to be trying to imply that Thor was somehow shocked and that enabled him to bring down Asagard without him being able to do anything. Sentry started sprouting tendrils a couple of pages before he brought down Asagard so Thor had already seen them, hell Thor could even hear Norman screaming to Void to bring it all down.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^That the series of events that occurred since you seem to have not read the issue. Seeing as how the Sentry is a trans light character, him immediately speeding away from Thor and dive-bombing Asgard doesn't really mean much. It sure as hell isn't proof of him being beyond Thor.Seriously, out of all the other sh*t you could use, you picked a scene that proves so little. Truly a skill. 👆
It would have been much better to use the Void gaining the advantage when it almost fully manifested. File that away for future reference.
We really shouldn't be having this conversation. Thor didn't want Void to bring down Asagard, the fact that Thor was helpless to stop him indicates that Void is much more powerful than Thor is.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusThe Void and all it’s glory was being held back by Thor:
And here some more goodies I came across:
K.
The last scene was just the typical moment when the hero steps it up a notch when previously all the power he could muster wasn't enough. It was just less....heroic because it's Bendis.
You are taking everything out of context. Nick saying that Thor should worry about it doesn't mean that Thor could have stopped him or was even a match, all that means is it's Thors problem. Yes we know Thor killed Sentry but you are ignoring the fact he couldn't have done it without the help of the other heroes and the power of the Norn stones.
You are blantantly misrepresenting what happened and taking statements out of context.
Well, Bendis said that Thor wasn't going to kill Void until the very end.
Also, @Rage: You should include the scan where Thor said "I will not kill you" to Bob.
And to the people claiming Thor had help....from who? Iron man, Spiderman and Captain America? That's not a very impressive team, considering that the group that was ganging up on Thor included Vector and X-ray, both of whom have taken down the Hulk in one on one fights. And there were other impressive people taking on Thor as well.
Here's the Sentry's back up in Siege:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/S0YMCAsVwMI/AAAAAAAAQ_M/kzsPEnfRJ-w/s1600-h/Siege%201-5.jpg
Originally posted by Deadline
I couldn’t to finish our previous debates anyway.
🙂
Originally posted by Deadline
I'm not arguing that he wasn't trying to kill Thor I'm arguing that he was holding back because he was drunk on power. Y'know kinda like what happened when Sentry fought WWH. Yea Thor is tougher than Ares don't think he's tougher than Loki with Norn Stones though.
What? How does that work? The Void possessed Sentry was clearly was aware of what was going on and was effective in combat.
Sentry didn’t hold back against World War Hulk. That was a very important factor in that battle.
Loki’s magic was spread out across not only the heroes at Asgard but also the heroes at the initiative etc. So yea, I see no reason why he wouldn’t at the very least be more durable than Loki.
Originally posted by Deadline
Sure I am. Thor maybe tougher than Ares but is there a massive gap between Thors speed and fighting ability? My point is even if you think Thor is faster it's pretty reasonable to assume its going to be much more difficult to counter an attack from Ares from behind without looking (only reacted at the last moment because as far as Void was concerned he had it all under control) than it is to react to Thors first initial attack. If you would like to post it, it sure didn't look like Thor was moving at superspeed and Sentry had 100 years to dodge it.
If it was in direct comparison, yes, I think Thor would severely outclass Ares in any worthwhile category. But my opinions don’t matter as this is a pretty shitty argument. Might as well argue Superman doesn’t go all out in terms of raw power because he isn’t running at light speed.
Just bad reasoning.
Here’s their initial encounter:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsSentry2.jpg
The Sentry/Void sucker punches Thor from the side with a blitz/bull rush, attempts to strike Thor and was simply beaten to the punch.
Fun fact: Thor has shown impressive super human speed.
Originally posted by Deadline
Thor hit Sentry with lightning that doesn't mean he blasted him apart or it even hurt him (not exactly sure what scene you are refering to). I'm not sure what you're arguing but you seem to be trying to imply that Thor was somehow shocked and that enabled him to bring down Asagard without him being able to do anything. Sentry started sprouting tendrils a couple of pages before he brought down Asagard so Thor had already seen them, hell Thor could even hear Norman screaming to Void to bring it all down.
I’m talking about this scene:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsSentry7.jpg
No, my argument is that the Void can fly really fast and at that moment he had the advantage. Immediately speeding away like that -in an obviously pivotal part of the story- doesn't mean what you want it to.
Originally posted by Deadline
We really shouldn't be having this conversation. Thor didn't want Void to bring down Asagard, the fact that Thor was helpless to stop him indicates that Void is much more powerful than Thor is.
Do you not comprehend that the Sentry sped away while he had the advantage?
Use the previous scene where the Void had the advantage as evidence his more formidable than –a non all out 🙂- Thor instead of using that shitty reasoning.
Originally posted by Deadline
You are taking everything out of context. Nick saying that Thor should worry about it doesn't mean that Thor could have stopped him or was even a match, all that means is it's Thors problem. Yes we know Thor killed Sentry but you are ignoring the fact he couldn't have done it without the help of the other heroes and the power of the Norn stones.You are blantantly misrepresenting what happened and taking statements out of context.
Heh. What exactly did I post that was out of context? What did I blatantly misrepresent?
I didn't alter any of the images I posted. Everything relevant that I know of in regards to Thor/Void is right there.
That wasn’t the point of the scan, but hey whatever: In the context he spoke of, he clearly meant that Thor would take on the Void. Seriously.
I’d also like to point out, that the Void had pretty significant help, and the only noticeable aid Thor got from the heroes was the Hellicarrier at the end. And I still say the only reason it was as effective as it was is because Thor had worn him down (The only way it makes sense to me)
The Norn Stones might have re-energized Thor and gave him a boost when he first started holding the Void at bay -and destroyed it's body the second time- but if the Void is half as powerful as some people clamor on, it didn't matter after it came back again.
Did Thor have help? Yes, no one’s denying it, but you’re trying to put the Void on a pedestal his not on. Frankly, if this was in the Thor title, I think he would have taken it down by himself no help required. Just another higher end threat he would eliminate.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
🙂What? How does that work? The Void possessed Sentry was clearly was aware of what was going on and was effective in combat.
How do you interpret the scene where Sentry is ignoring Thor and doing Yoga in the sky in the middle of their fight. Its a pretty weird scene but it seems to indicate Sentry was at least somewhat distracted from Normans mission.
Here’s their initial encounter:The Sentry/Void sucker punches Thor from the side with a blitz/bull rush, attempts to strike Thor and was simply beaten to the punch.
Fun fact: Thor has shown impressive super human speed.
Ive seen that scan a lot and never interpreted it as Sentry trying to punch Thor after knocking him down. It looks like he is just floating there.
Frankly, if this was in the Thor title, I think he would have taken it down by himself no help required. Just another higher end threat he would eliminate.
Perhaps but you could use that sort of reasoning to reverse pretty much anything that ever happened in a comic book.
Originally posted by Fifthchild
How do you interpret the scene where Sentry is ignoring Thor and doing Yoga in the sky in the middle of their fight. Its a pretty weird scene but it seems to indicate Sentry was at least somewhat distracted from Normans mission.
What? You mean the scene where Sentry's cracked and glowing with power right before Thor blasts him? That hardly indicates what you think it does. He could be powering up for all we know.
Originally posted by Fifthchild
Ive seen that scan a lot and never interpreted it as Sentry trying to punch Thor after knocking him down. It looks like he is just floating there.
Well you can think whatever you want but seeing as how Sentry was a vital part of the plan to take Thor down, and his fist was glowing with energy, I'm going to stick with the more logical and likely conclusion if you don't mind.
Originally posted by Fifthchild
Perhaps but you could use that sort of reasoning to reverse pretty much anything that ever happened in a comic book.
Perhaps you could, but it doesn't change my stance or point. I don't think Sentry was vastly above Thor. I think he was a high end Trans/Low Skyfather based on Siege. A level of threat which Thor has rose to and beyond in the past. Not a knock against Sentry. Simply an observation from reading the event.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
🙂
Thats the problem with you're debating style. Thats not what I said you decided to interpret it that way because thats what you want to believe. In order to make a constructive argument you need to try and see whats actually there not alter facts so they can fit your reality.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? How does that work? The Void possessed Sentry was clearly was aware of what was going on and was effective in combat.Sentry didn’t hold back against World War Hulk. That was a very important factor in that battle.
You don't remember the bit were he let WWH land several unanswered punches?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Loki’s magic was spread out across not only the heroes at Asgard but also the heroes at the initiative etc. So yea, I see no reason why he wouldn’t at the very least be more durable than Loki.
Maybe but that doesn't neccesarily mean that Loki had very little norn stone power. Even without the Norn stones Loki is tough. Why on earth are you focusing on durability and not Lokis overall powerset?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusIf it was in direct comparison, yes, I think Thor would severely outclass Ares in any worthwhile category.
If you look at Thors speed feats they are better than Ares but Thor has had alot more showings and his speed feats are not always consistent. In that series there is nothing to suggest that Thor had better speed or reflexes than Ares. Also if you look at the fights that both Ares and Thor have had there is really nothing to suggest that Thor is faster or more skilled.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
But my opinions don’t matter as this is a pretty shitty argument. Might as well argue Superman doesn’t go all out in terms of raw power because he isn’t running at light speed.Just bad reasoning.
Absolutely.
a) Thor doesn't want Asagard to be destroyed
b) Void destroyed Asagard and Thor didn't do anything to stop it.
c) Since Thor doesn't want Asagard to be destroyed and this happened right in front of him, this therefore means that he couldn't do anything.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Here’s their initial encounter:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsSentry2.jpgThe Sentry/Void sucker punches Thor from the side with a blitz/bull rush, attempts to strike Thor and was simply beaten to the punch.
Fun fact: Thor has shown impressive super human speed.
So you didn't notice that Sentry in that form was less powerful than Voided out Sentry, you didn't notice that the more Sentry transformed into the Void the more powerful he was?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I’m talking about this scene:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsSentry7.jpg
Thats Sentry getting hit by lightning and transforming more into the Void. Nothing there suggests that he was hurt and that it split him in half.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, my argument is that the Void can fly really fast and at that moment he had the advantage. Immediately speeding away like that -in an obviously pivotal part of the story- doesn't mean what you want it to.
Sentry uses his flying speed in combat, just because he had the advantage doesn't mean that it would have stopped Thor from being able to prevent him from destroying Asagard. What proof do you have that this advantage was enough to stop Thor?
a) Is there on panel evidence that Thor was fatigued?
b) Was he badly hurt?
c) Not to mention that Norman shouted out for Sentry to destroy Asagard on his loudspeakers. So Thor knew what was going to happen next.
d) It also took several panels.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do you not comprehend that the Sentry sped away while he had the advantage?Use the previous scene where the Void had the advantage as evidence his more formidable than –a non all out 🙂- Thor instead of using that shitty reasoning.
Please provide proof that the advantage prevented Thor from being able to stop Sentry from demolishing Asagard and stop making assumptions.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Heh. What exactly did I post that was out of context? What did I blatantly misrepresent? I didn't alter any of the images I posted. Everything relevant that I know of in regards to Thor/Void is right there.That wasn’t the point of the scan, but hey whatever: In the context he spoke of, he clearly meant that Thor would take on the Void. Seriously.
I also said I couldn't be bothered to carry on previous debates with you, you decided to misinterpret what I said.
Heres what I said again
Originally posted by DeadlineYou are taking everything out of context. Nick saying that Thor should worry about it doesn't mean that Thor could have stopped him or was even a match, all that means is it's Thors problem. Yes we know Thor killed Sentry but you are ignoring the fact he couldn't have done it without the help of the other heroes and the power of the Norn stones.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I’d also like to point out, that the Void had pretty significant help,
What on earth are you talking about? Void had help fighting Thor? No he didn't, he didn't have help fighting the heroes at the end either.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
and the only noticeable aid Thor got from the heroes was the Hellicarrier at the end.And I still say the only reason it was as effective as it was is because Thor had worn him down (The only way it makes sense to me)
The Norn Stones might have re-energized Thor and gave him a boost when he first started holding the Void at bay -and destroyed it's body the second time- but if the Void is half as powerful as some people clamor on, it didn't matter after it came back again.
Would you like to post the scan of Captain America's shield going through Void with the words SLLLLLLIIICE!!. Post that up and tell me that didn't look like it didn't hurt. It's common sense as well that the combined efforts of the other heroes helped, we know the other heroes were attacking Void. Ms Marvel was there as well are we supposed to assume she was standing there picking her nose just because we don't see her on panel attacking Void?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Did Thor have help? Yes, no one’s denying it, but you’re trying to put the Void on a pedestal his not on. Frankly, if this was in the Thor title, I think he would have taken it down by himself no help required. Just another higher end threat he would eliminate.
Actually you are trying to downplay the role the other heroes played.
Next time, reply within a day or two, or don’t reply at all. With debates as uninteresting as this, I forget what my points were pretty quickly. I have no idea where I was going with this and if this was me just trying to pass the time.
Originally posted by Deadline
Thats the problem with you're debating style. Thats not what I said you decided to interpret it that way because thats what you want to believe. In order to make a constructive argument you need to try and see whats actually there not alter facts so they can fit your reality.
Lol what the hell? I edited in couldn’t in a sentence that had no relevancy to the main debate. Don’t get your f*cking panties in a bunch.
I’m going to ignore the way you tried to classify my debating style
Originally posted by Deadline
You don't remember the bit were he let WWH land several unanswered punches?
Fighting effectively =/= using all of your power
The two don’t go hand in hand. One of the main points of that fight is that Sentry was giving it all his got.
Seriously, the only way it could have been more clearer is if Pak used Dragon Ball tactics.
So I take it you’ve given up the drunk-on-power crap.
Originally posted by Deadline
Maybe but that doesn't neccesarily mean that Loki had very little norn stone power. Even without the Norn stones Loki is tough. Why on earth are you focusing on durability and not Lokis overall powerset?
Maybe what? That’s exactly what happened. I’m pretty sure Loki had only like two Norn Stones and the only offense he mounted was a single blast.
Because you used the word tougher in your previous post. Nothing changes if we use overall power. Thor was always more powerful than Loki, even with amps in the past.
Originally posted by Deadline
If you look at Thors speed feats they are better than Ares but Thor has had alot more showings and his speed feats are not always consistent. In that series there is nothing to suggest that Thor had better speed or reflexes than Ares. Also if you look at the fights that both Ares and Thor have had there is really nothing to suggest that Thor is faster or more skilled.
facepalm Thor in direct comparison would be depicted as faster than Ares. Thor would be depicted as superior to Ares in any worthwhile category except the art of War or some such.
Sentry easily catching Ares is not evidence that Sentry let Thor strike him. Sentry was part of a plan to specifically take Thor down. They prepared for his coming. Do you not understand how stupid that is?
Using Ares as some kind of bench mark for Thor is f*cking ridiculous. Even with the Bendis wank, Ares is still clearly beneath Thor.
Oh, and looking at Thor’s history and character, their fights mean very little so I’d advise not to waste our time with that method of reasoning.
Originally posted by Deadline
Absolutely.a) Thor doesn't want Asagard to be destroyed
b) Void destroyed Asagard and Thor didn't do anything to stop it.
c) Since Thor doesn't want Asagard to be destroyed and this happened right in front of him, this therefore means that he couldn't do anything.
Lmao.
I don’t even know what I’m wasting my time, this isn’t even amusing anymore. Like picking on the kid from the short bus. If you really think that’s an indication of when a character –especially this one- doesn’t use all of their raw power, you need to actually pick up a comic.
How many times have I told you that Sentry sped away from Thor? That’s not to mention the devastation/shock factor Thor exhibited. Those are in story reasons. The more probable reason however is because it was half way through the series, and the writer needed a shock value event.
Thor should have blasted him out of the sky, created a vortex around Asgard etc.
Originally posted by Deadline
So you didn't notice that Sentry in that form was less powerful than Voided out Sentry, you didn't notice that the more Sentry transformed into the Void the more powerful he was?
What the hell are you talking about? How does that have any relevancy to the point I made?
[i]Originally posted by Deadline
Thats Sentry getting hit by lightning and transforming more into the Void. Nothing there suggests that he was hurt and that it split him in half.
facepalmx2
The big smile on his face is a clear indication that he wasn’t hurt.
Sentry being hole before the lightning, and then being broken after the lightning also in no way proves that it was the lightning that split him in half.
Spoiler:
That was sarcasm. With your comprehension skills, I wasn’t sure you’d catch on.
Originally posted by Deadline
Sentry uses his flying speed in combat, just because he had the advantage doesn't mean that it would have stopped Thor from being able to prevent him from destroying Asagard. What proof do you have that this advantage was enough to stop Thor?a) Is there on panel evidence that Thor was fatigued?
b) Was he badly hurt?
c) Not to mention that Norman shouted out for Sentry to destroy Asagard on his loudspeakers. So Thor knew what was going to happen next.
d) It also took several panels.
Read above. I'm too lazy to rehash what I've already said.
Oh, and since you haven't being attention: Thor was weakened in Siege #1 and #2 by the Osborn's forces.
Sentry had the advantage, Osborn yells, Sentry speeds away, and he takes Asgard out. This all happens in moments.
What a silly argument you have.
Originally posted by Deadline
Please provide proof that the advantage prevented Thor from being able to stop Sentry from demolishing Asagard and stop making assumptions.
Siege #3. It’s all there.
Originally posted by Deadline
I also said I couldn't be bothered to carry on previous debates with you, you decided to misinterpret what I said.Heres what I said again
facepalmx3
Heh. What exactly did I post that was out of context? What did I blatantly misrepresent? I didn't alter any of the images I posted. Everything relevant that I know of in regards to Thor/Void is right there.That wasn’t the point of the scan, but hey whatever: In the context he spoke of, he clearly meant that Thor would take on the Void. Seriously.
Originally posted by Deadline
What on earth are you talking about? Void had help fighting Thor? No he didn't, he didn't have help fighting the heroes at the end either.
Siege #1 Sentry/Void was the one I was referring to. Their respective allies were busy with each other while the two were fighting.
Originally posted by Deadline
Would you like to post the scan of Captain America's shield going through Void with the words SLLLLLLIIICE!!. Post that up and tell me that didn't look like it didn't hurt. It's common sense as well that the combined efforts of the other heroes helped, we know the other heroes were attacking Void. Ms Marvel was there as well are we supposed to assume she was standing there picking her nose just because we don't see her on panel attacking Void?
Do you want me to? I will. You can argue that it hurt him (If it did, it had no noticeable effect), I wouldn't care. It was a shield toss. I'd argue Stark had more of an effect.
So now we're making up shit? Siege revolved around the Big 3 with Thor being the major focus.
The other heroes were dealing with Osborn's forces which included the entire Initiative and H.A.M.M.E.R. It was up to Thor to keep the Void at bay. Which is why he was on the front lines. It's not hard to understand.
Originally posted by Deadline
Actually you are trying to downplay the role the other heroes played.
If you say so.
Originally posted by Newjak
What will happen is what should have happened in Siege: Asgard.Osborne will learn that fing with high magical deities is a bad idea. Especially when they have hosts and hosts of magical trinkets, monster, and devices just lying around waiting to vaporize anything and anyone.
The only reason Osborne even had a chance against Asgard is cause Asgard had been going through Hell and Back over the past how many events and were not firing on full power.
Doom tried to off them, they were attacked by the Skrulls, all after just being resurrected, also with Loki screwing them from the inside, and without Odin on board.
👆
Although that was the whole theme of Dark Reign. Evil in control.
voided out sentry was about to kill thor, thor got lucky osborne yelled for sentry to take down asgard....thor was helpless to stop sentry....void fully appears, stomps all heroes including thor...loki give every hero a boost in strength via nornstones...they hurt void....void is annoyed and kills loki who tries to attack him with all the nornstones...hellicarrier hit void makes bob resurface, he see what he has done and wants to die....thor say no so he makes him kill him by turning into void...thor kills him and is suprised that void didnt regenerate, showing that bob was the reason he didnt come back
...end story...
void was far above thor
