Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
assuming that they do this, something they never done ever while working togather.
lol?
you are right, CIS on, Punisher has never taken a defensive position...
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
also what defensive position might this be with standard equiptment?
... wut?
ummm, well, at the very least, a position with their back to a wall, height, etc... Cities have lots of "natural" places that people can either cover or defend from...
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Also whats to stop Wolverine from waiting them out? You do realize he could wait days with out eating and be fine, while the rest of them would be on death door in short order.
so, in your opinion, wolverine > anyone who eats?
Originally posted by Juk3n
again, they're not in a castle surrounded by a moat, and this isnt a ghost land, this is a city, at 500 yards, DD isn't keeping a lock on 1 target. Especially one who is a master of stealth himself, and knows all he needs to know about Daredevils abilities and how they work.
defensive position means a bit less than it seems you think it does. It is very easy to find locations, especially in cities, where you have sight on all places where a target could approach from. Further, cities provide cover, alleys, height, etc.
in a lot of ways, buildings provide "castles" with some obvious exceptions
Originally posted by Bentley
Bring the statement -scans or issue numbers-, I'd prefer an actual panel showing, but obviously we cannot pick what has been printed before.
Originally posted by inimalist
yes, probably, but the idea that wolverine is going to leave Punisher scratching his head for what to do here is insane.
I never said he would, but at 500 yards, Daredevil WILL lose sight and sense of Logan until Logan makes an approach, and when Logan makes an approach it's not gonna be a screaming berserk one is it? If logan closes the gap to ..pfft 50 yards in the bustle of a city, then it's a lock, he can shift those 50 yards in seconds, and then it's a melee. Punishr will have to aim and fire at a blitzing Logan, while not hitting a defending Daredevil and assisting MK. If Logan goes for Pun FIRST then he has no close up defense.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yes, but so are numerous characters who failed to locate wolverine those include characters with superhuman senses.
Like Captain America and Black Widow?
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Wolverine is a beast when it comes to stealth. He will know were Punisher and the team are, they won't know were he is (asside from DD). So it depends how the team decides to play this out, do they remain in close to one another or split up.
You know something I don't think hes much better than Pun.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No it doesent. Punisher does this mainly against unexpecting mobsters. Not individuals who are quite aware he present and can do this
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5521/madripoorah2.jpgYou are refferring to Punisher vs DD, spiderman and wolverine cross over, which is the most pis riddle mess of a comic ive have ever read....as evidence common now.....in it wolverine drank acid for some unknown reason (because for some reason he lacked superhuman senses the entire run), spiderman got tricked by fake bombs (last I checked spiderman had a spidersense just so crap like that does not happen, oh wolverine also was so how unable to here a friggin rocket, wolverine took spiderman out with a single shot, dd did the same to wolverine while berseker all in all Spiderman and Wolverines powers and abilities were completely ignored through out the arc. So are you sure you want to use that as your "evidence" and I use that word lightly and that being absurdly generous.
unlikely before wolverine closes the gap in a city land scape.
GMAFB break Wolverine has been sneaked up on loads of times. Just throwing this out.
Originally posted by Juk3n
I never said he would, but at 500 yards, Daredevil WILL lose sight and sense of Logan until Logan makes an approach, and when Logan makes an approach it's not gonna be a screaming berserk one is it? If logan closes the gap to ..pfft 50 yards in the bustle of a city, then it's a lock, he can shift those 50 yards in seconds, and then it's a melee. Punishr will have to aim and fire at a blitzing Logan, while not hitting a defending Daredevil and assisting MK. If Logan goes for Pun FIRST then he has no close up defense.
look, I'm not trying to say the team even wins, though I think punisher gives Wolverine much more of a challenge than most people give him (but then again, bullets in comics and so forth).
The fact remains, urban warfare tends to favor those taking the defensive, unless the aggressor has some serious ability to siege (air support, RPG, explosives, chain guns). Even a store on the first floor of a building, which could be quickly comendeered by the team, would provide adequate defensibility such that Wolverine isn't going to get a "drop" on the team. Go to 8th floor or something like that? Sure, Wolverine might still be able to tank their damage, but unless we suddenly think Punisher has no insight on battle tactics, we can assume he probably finds a location where the team is at least tactically given the advantage.
Originally posted by Deadline
Like Captain America and Black Widow?You know something I don't think hes much better than Pun.
GMAFB break Wolverine has been sneaked up on loads of times. Just throwing this out.
Wolverine has infiltrated the Baxter Building twice under his own stealth abilities (Punisher need a stupid stealth suit with glowing balls), and Stark Tower. He has got the drop on Spider-man and Daredevil, and avoided Strike Force X (who all had the same level of enhanced senses as Wolverine as well as built in thermal / night vision) for six days in the rain forest. Wolverine is SIGNIFICANTLY more stealthy than Punisher.
Originally posted by inimalistdefensive position means a bit less than it seems you think it does. It is very easy to find locations, especially in cities, where you have sight on all places where a target could approach from.
They start 500 yards from eachother "fight" they're all gonna bolt to the nearest roof? No sale.
They're all gonna run to the nearest alley to put there backs against a wall and watch the alley mouth? No love, just No. Infact if the three of them decide to bolt upon the "go" then where ever they end up it'll leave them about 12 seconds to 'set up' a viable defense before Wolverine catches up with them.
Whats more viable in this setting with these characters..they down him from range? 🙄 Or Wolverine eventually ends up closing the gap? :/
Originally posted by inimalist
look, I'm not trying to say the team even wins, though I think punisher gives Wolverine much more of a challenge than most people give him (but then again, bullets in comics and so forth).The fact remains, urban warfare tends to favor those taking the defensive, unless the aggressor has some serious ability to siege (air support, RPG, explosives, chain guns). Even a store on the first floor of a building, which could be quickly comendeered by the team, would provide adequate defensibility such that Wolverine isn't going to get a "drop" on the team. Go to 8th floor or something like that? Sure, Wolverine might still be able to tank their damage, but unless we suddenly think Punisher has no insight on battle tactics, we can assume he probably finds a location where the team is at least tactically given the advantage.
Wolverine has sat in a deep pit with someone chain gunning him with .50 cal slugs for 24 hours a day for six weeks, and wasn't koed. Conventional weaponry is ineffective against Wolverine. Punisher's standard arsenal isn't nearly powerful enough to put Wolverine down for the count, it's barely sufficient enough to slow him down.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has infiltrated the Baxter Building twice under his own stealth abilities (Punisher need a stupid stealth suit with glowing balls), and Stark Tower.
Was one of those in EOTS were he recieved upgrades which helped him infiltrate it? You already starting to misinterpret feats i'm going to assume you're taking the other example out of context as well.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He has got the drop on Spider-man and Daredevil, and avoided Strike Force X (who all had the same level of enhanced senses as Wolverine as well as built in thermal / night vision) for six days in the rain forest. Wolverine is SIGNIFICANTLY more stealthy than Punisher.
Punisher also managed to evade Shang Chi, Daredevil, Black Widow and Dagger who were hunting him. Not only that Punisher was keeping tabs on them. No that doesn't prove hes significantly more stealthy. Not to mention the 100s of times Wolverines been jumped.
Yea this really helps your argument.
Punishers second fight with Wolverine
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has sat in a deep pit with someone chain gunning him with .50 cal slugs for 24 hours a day for six weeks, and wasn't koed.
Actually you don't know he wasn't koed ever.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Conventional weaponry is ineffective against Wolverine. Punisher's standard arsenal isn't nearly powerful enough to put Wolverine down for the count, it's barely sufficient enough to slow him down.
It depends where he gets hit. Hell Pun could probably make weapons and explosive and find ways to make them more powerful.
Originally posted by Deadline
Like Captain America and Black Widow?You know something I don't think hes much better than Pun.
GMAFB break Wolverine has been sneaked up on loads of times. Just throwing this out.
as for the rest srank answered it nicely
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has infiltrated the Baxter Building twice under his own stealth abilities (Punisher need a stupid stealth suit with glowing balls), and Stark Tower. He has got the drop on Spider-man and Daredevil, and avoided Strike Force X (who all had the same level of enhanced senses as Wolverine as well as built in thermal / night vision) for six days in the rain forest. Wolverine is SIGNIFICANTLY more stealthy than Punisher.
also is the jaguar feat suppose to impress me? Wolverine for fun routinely sneaks up on animal like deer and pets them with out them even realizing he had gotten next to them.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
? what does capt or black widow have to do with anything? You trying to imply they located wolverine while he was trying to remain hidden from them? becuase if so I calling BS on you and like to see it.as for the rest srank answered it nicely
also is the jaguar feat suppose to impress me? Wolverine for fun routinely sneaks up on animal like deer and pets them with out them even realizing he had gotten next to them.
facepalm
Good god. I don't think I can be bothered with this.
Originally posted by Juk3n
They start 500 yards from eachother "fight" they're all gonna bolt to the nearest roof? No sale.They're all gonna run to the nearest alley to put there backs against a wall and watch the alley mouth? No love, just No. Infact if the three of them decide to bolt upon the "go" then where ever they end up it'll leave them about 12 seconds to 'set up' a viable defense before Wolverine catches up with them.
Whats more viable in this setting with these characters..they down him from range? 🙄 Or Wolverine eventually ends up closing the gap? :/
12 seconds? I thought wolverine was being stealthy?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has sat in a deep pit with someone chain gunning him with .50 cal slugs for 24 hours a day for six weeks, and wasn't koed. Conventional weaponry is ineffective against Wolverine. Punisher's standard arsenal isn't nearly powerful enough to put Wolverine down for the count, it's barely sufficient enough to slow him down.
shit, I even read that too
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
? what does capt or black widow have to do with anything? You trying to imply they located wolverine while he was trying to remain hidden from them? becuase if so I calling BS on you and like to see it.
Read Wolverine Origins from 1-10 I think
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
as for the rest srank answered it nicely
No he didn't for starters he didn't even remember one of the examples properly.
Think for yourself.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Duganalso is the jaguar feat suppose to impress me? Wolverine for fun routinely sneaks up on animal like deer and pets them with out them even realizing he had gotten next to them.
Im just replying to your statement about Punisher having no stealth. Yea and Wolverine has never got the drop on Pun.
