Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, if we found aliens that had no belief in god (natural atheism), then that would be proof there is no god?
Originally posted by socool8520
Using the previous logic he stated, then yeah, that is valid.
Actually, it's not. It would only be valid if my point had been that alien's belief systems determine the validity of our own. Which was not my point at all.
My point was that if a separate race that we had never encountered, and did not share our history, had come to know/believe in a higher power that somehow fit right along with our own, that would add credibility to the idea that there was, in fact, a higher power. It's like getting a description of how a person looks from two different groups of people who have never met each other. If they both describe him the same way, it adds credibility to the idea that that is, in fact, how he looks.
If they were atheists, it wouldn't be that same. That would be like asking two groups of people who have never met about a guy and having them both answer they've never met him. It wouldn't mean anything.
Also, sorry for the late reply. Been absent from KMC for a while.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Actually, it's not. It would only be valid if my point had been that alien's belief systems determine the validity of our own. Which was not my point at all.My point was that if a separate race that we had never encountered, and did not share our history, had come to know/believe in a higher power that somehow fit right along with our own, that would add credibility to the idea that there was, in fact, a higher power. It's like getting a description of how a person looks from two different groups of people who have never met each other. If they both describe him the same way, it adds credibility to the idea that that is, in fact, how he looks.
If they were atheists, it wouldn't be that same. That would be like asking two groups of people who have never met about a guy and having them both answer they've never met him. It wouldn't mean anything.
Also, sorry for the late reply. Been absent from KMC for a while.
I disagree. If there was an alien race that were theists, it would only say theism is linked to intelligence (I am assuming they are intelligent). The only way that this would prove one god over another is to find alien race after alien race that all believed in the same god as we do (pick one, there are many gods to pick from).
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I disagree. If there was an alien race that were theists, it would only say theism is linked to intelligence (I am assuming they are intelligent). The only way that this would prove one god over another is to find alien race after alien race that all believed in the same god as we do (pick one, there are many gods to pick from).
Well, even then, it could be random coincidence.
But, yes, I would tend to agree that if God is the God of "yo, I Love you. I want you to love me back" we would see a very similar religious belief system out there in all sentient alien races.
We can narrow it down: be good to yourselves and each other, there is an afterlife based on your goodness, there is a God and/or Gods that care about you and your existence. That captures 99% of the religions. 😐
I think we would be highly likely to find that in another sentient species. That still does not prove God exists. But, as my agnostic homie stated, if we found aliens (or they found us) that were basically...Mormons (as an example), that would go a long way to proving some sort of guiding Divine source in the cosmos. I'm sure that would convince quiet a few agnostics if we ran into some Aliens that thought we all could become Gods and did baptisms for the dead. 😐
😐
😐
Just in case, take another one: -----> 😐
Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, even then, it could be random coincidence.But, yes, I would tend to agree that if God is the God of "yo, I Love you. I want you to love me back" we would see a very similar religious belief system out there in all sentient alien races.
We can narrow it down: be good to yourselves and each other, there is an afterlife based on your goodness, there is a God and/or Gods that care about you and your existence. That captures 99% of the religions. 😐
I think we would be highly likely to find that in another sentient species. That still does not prove God exists. But, as my agnostic homie stated, if we found aliens (or they found us) that were basically...Mormons (as an example), that would go a long way to proving some sort of guiding Divine source in the cosmos. I'm sure that would convince quiet a few agnostics if we ran into some Aliens that thought we all could become Gods and did baptisms for the dead. 😐
😐
😐
Just in case, take another one: -----> 😐
Like that would happen.
😐 Back at you.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I disagree. If there was an alien race that were theists, it would only say theism is linked to intelligence (I am assuming they are intelligent). The only way that this would prove one god over another is to find alien race after alien race that all believed in the same god as we do (pick one, there are many gods to pick from).
Sure, if you found an alien race that believed in a random higher power it may not mean much. I mean a separate alien race that believes in a God that was similar to ours. If you have two groups of people who have never, at any point, had any kind of interaction, and they both come up with the same description and belief system it adds credibility to the idea that said belief system is rooted, at least to some degree, in reality.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Sure, if you found an alien race that believed in a random higher power it may not mean much. I mean a separate alien race that believes in a God that was similar to ours. If you have two groups of people who have never, at any point, had any kind of interaction, and they both come up with the same description and belief system it adds credibility to the idea that said belief system is rooted, at least to some degree, in reality.
Not any more credit than two religions on this planet being similar. I would think it would be more of a similar thought pattern among intelligent species. I honestly think if there is intelligent life elsewhere, they will have similar religions to ours. They would be looking for answers early without any scientific knowledge, and would probably resort to supernatural means the same as we did. Then, with scientific advancements, there would be a rise in non-believers just like here. I really couldn't imagine it happening any other way, no matter how many life forms spring up.
Originally posted by socool8520
Not any more credit than two religions on this planet being similar. I would think it would be more of a similar thought pattern among intelligent species. I honestly think if there is intelligent life elsewhere, they will have similar religions to ours. They would be looking for answers early without any scientific knowledge, and would probably resort to supernatural means the same as we did. Then, with scientific advancements, there would be a rise in non-believers just like here. I really couldn't imagine it happening any other way, no matter how many life forms spring up.
It's not the same as two religions on the planet being similar. Two similar religions on our planet can come about by a shared history between the two or interactions between those who hold the religion. This is not possible when you are talking about two races who have never, at any point, interacted with each other, or shared any sort of history together.
Originally posted by TacDavey
It's not the same as two religions on the planet being similar. Two similar religions on our planet can come about by a shared history between the two or interactions between those who hold the religion. This is not possible when you are talking about two races who have never, at any point, interacted with each other, or shared any sort of history together.
You can take two religions from two opposite sides of the globe, that have never met each other or heard of one another's religion, and you would still find similarities. I believe it would be the same if it were two different species of intelligent life.
Originally posted by socool8520
You can take two religions from two opposite sides of the globe, that have never met each other or heard of one another's religion, and you would still find similarities. I believe it would be the same if it were two different species of intelligent life.
It still isn't the same. Even religions from two opposite sides of the globe can still share a connection from the past.
If you want to make the claim that two sets of people who have never met, and share no similarities, will not only both become theistic (I have no doubt of this), but will come to similar conclusions concerning their religion, you will have to back that up in some way. Especially considering we live right now in a world in which almost everyone is connected to each other and we have MANY different religions and beliefs.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Sure, if you found an alien race that believed in a random higher power it may not mean much. I mean a separate alien race that believes in a God that was similar to ours. If you have two groups of people who have never, at any point, had any kind of interaction, and they both come up with the same description and belief system it adds credibility to the idea that said belief system is rooted, at least to some degree, in reality.
It would take more then two, and there are other possibilities. It could be a symptom of how intelligence develops in the universe.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It would take more then two, and there are other possibilities. It could be a symptom of how intelligence develops in the universe.
I don't know what you mean by a "symptom of how intelligence develops in the universe".
As I said, I can understand theistic ideals being present in two separate races that never met each other. But to have those theistic beliefs made around the same/similar God is another matter. When you get that specific, it starts becoming less and less probable that the belief was simply a product of evolution or the development of intelligence. Especially considering we, here on earth, have varied degrees of religious and spiritual beliefs regardless of sharing a widely connected way of life.
Originally posted by TacDavey
I don't know what you mean by a "symptom of how intelligence develops in the universe".As I said, I can understand theistic ideals being present in two separate races that never met each other. But to have those theistic beliefs made around the same/similar God is another matter. When you get that specific, it starts becoming less and less probable that the belief was simply a product of evolution or the development of intelligence. Especially considering we, here on earth, have varied degrees of religious and spiritual beliefs regardless of sharing a widely connected way of life.
You would have to see how many other ways this alien race and we were alike.