Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: iPad 2 vs. Honeycomb Tablets.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Considering Java development has been around much longer than iOS, I'd say it's easy to see why bug fixes are easier for Android.
I just read over this again, bit Apples to Oranges. Objective C has in fact been around 10 years longer than Java.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I just read over this again, bit Apples to Oranges. Objective C has in fact been around 10 years longer than Java.
I agree that it's Apples to Androids. 313
I see a major difference between developing in a very Java-like API versus the Cocoa API.
What I see is an existing language being used with some additional API for Android. For iOS, I see an entire API developed just the iPhone (and, then, updated for the iPad, iPad Touch)
It's very hard to explain what I mean.
Here's the only way to explain it:
Program in Java.
Program in objective C.
Now, convert the program you wrote in Java to work with the Android API, still using Eclipse, but with the Android plug-in installed.
Now, convert your Objective C program to work on the iPhone using Cocoa API.
Which one is easier (assuming you know nothing of the mobile APIs but are well-versed in each of the original languages.)
The obvious answer is converting the Java program.
Additionally, saying that the Cocoa API is the same thing as writing in Objective C is like saying that Java is the same as C#: there's that much of a difference for iOS programming. Not so, with the Android development.
edit - Android's initial problems were with a shitty API...from what I hear.
Havind tested some and seen more development on a Mac using XCode for iPhone as well as on Windows using Eclipse for Android, I can't say you are correct. Not that Android is particularly hard, but iPhone development is made quite easy with Apple's tools.
I can't exactly say how different coding for the iPhone is from traditional Objective C coding, vs. how different coding for Android is vs. traditional Java programs (as I am not knowledgable on the languages really), but from what I read traditional Java coding is different from Android coding. I don't think it's a real issue though, I don't think it's frustratingly hard to develop for one of the platforms over the other.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Havind tested some and seen more development on a Mac using XCode for iPhone as well as on Windows using Eclipse for Android, I can't say you are correct. Not that Android is particularly hard, but iPhone development is made quite easy with Apple's tools.I can't exactly say how different coding for the iPhone is from traditional Objective C coding, vs. how different coding for Android is vs. traditional Java programs (as I am not knowledgable on the languages really), but from what I read traditional Java coding is different from Android coding. I don't think it's a real issue though, I don't think it's frustratingly hard to develop for one of the platforms over the other.
Don't take my word for it: take the word from a programmer that programs on both platforms, for a living:
(hint, control+f the word "easier"😉
http://www.linkedin.com/answers/technology/wireless/TCH_WIR/626542-104655
Edit - Just checked, but, apparantly, that's a rather searched topic on google search.
http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/special-reports/its-easier-create-applications-android-iphone
Apparantly, lots of people asked the same question.
Double edit - AHA! This is what I was looking for. It references a study that showed very few programmers knew how to program in cocoa, making it a limiting platform for application development:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/make_your_own_iphone_android_apps_with_new_generator.php
We can find articles on both sides, which supports my point of "It's not a clear cut issue with an advantage to either"
http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/The-Pitfalls-Of-Android-Development/984816
Oh I didn't read it yet, but you might enjoy this anyways, it looks like it is quite in depth:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2011/03/ars-reviews-the-motorola-xoom.ars/
Originally posted by Bardock42
We can find articles on both sides, which supports my point of "It's not a clear cut issue with an advantage to either"
"Once a day or so it hits me that I am writing Java,
and I cry a little,”
He's whining about not liking Java programming. That, you know, supports my entire argument that this line of discussion was about. 😬
Originally posted by Bardock42
http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/The-Pitfalls-Of-Android-Development/984816
His first point:
Platform changes. It applies, equally, to the iPhone and even more so because you will have to change your program, if already written, even more to put it on the iPhone.
His second point:
Device Changes. Major duh and one of the complaints about Android: you can develop for more than one Android platform. The difficult part is designing one program to work in 2.1, 1.8, and so forth. That's not really what this conversation is about because that equally applies to iPhone: Some applications break during major iOS updates and they will not work until they are updated.
Confused Distribution:
That is irrelevant to which is actually easier to program in.
Android Success:
Shows how dated the article is.
Application Differentiation:
Again, this shows how dated the article is. It's irrelevant, now (and was, then, too).
Poor Android Management:
Seems to be a very old article. It's also irrelevant to what we are discussing.
Looking further down the article, everything else shows how dated the article is.
Originally posted by Bardock42
http://www.quora.com/How-difficult-is-it-to-develop-on-the-Android-platform-when-you-are-familar-with-iPhone
The first two are biased, obviously, but I'd give a nod to the first guy for being honest about being able to get your program started much sooner. But, he makes little sense about having to develop for multiple screens: if the application ran in an "applet" like almost all do, he wouldn't be having those issues.
Second guy is obviously biased. He says you don't learn a language, you learn a platform. Then he says that you can learn Objective-C in a week, completely contradicting himself: I thought he just said you learn the platform. Additionally, he makes a very untrue statement about Java developers: anyone that has developed in Java, ever, knows that there are different REs and you HAVE to program to be "backwards compatible" at times, depending on what you're doing.
I like the third guy's comments: they are very different.
I quote you an owner of a software developer for both platforms and a CEO and you quote me back what appears to be amateurs? Isn't that an apples to oranges?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh I didn't read it yet, but you might enjoy this anyways, it looks like it is quite in depth:http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2011/03/ars-reviews-the-motorola-xoom.ars/
Yeah, none of that review is new for me.
Here's the difference between Motorola and Apple:
No Flash available.
Motorola's actions: We'll send an update as soon as we have the bugs worked out (soon...could be up to the 90 days.)
Apple's Actions: **** you and the horse you rode in on.
No SD-Card support yet:
Motorola's actions: We'll send an update as soon as we have the bugs worked out. (90 day from launch was the reported info.)
Apple's Actions: No SD Card after 4 years: **** you and the idea that we need to do something like that. We'd rather you pay between 50-100 dollars for a bigger hard drive and use our cumbersome iTunes application on your computer for backups. Eff-doing it on the fly.
No 3G/4G Support due to a lack of Hardware:
Motorola: As soon as we have it complete, we will do it completely for free for you.
Apple: **** you. We'll sell you another model for $200 with a contract in a year. (That applies to both their 4G and 3G.)
Are you seeing a pattern, here? This is the "why" on the hate for Apple's practices. Why do that do it? Because morons continue to buy their shit no matter what they put out. If people would just say, "woah...woah...woah. Apple, you need to get your shit together or comp us." Then MAYBE Apple would think twice before they did their charades. It's obvious that Motorola cannot afford to do that because they do not have a massive "buy whatever we put out" following like Apple does.
Perhaps this tablet is to your liking: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/featured/asus/default.aspx
Originally posted by RE: BlaxicanI'm like that too. I'd take a laptop, but for say my cousin who's a teenage girl, or for someone like my mom, they're wonderful.
I kind of feel the same way. The only reason smart phones and tablets hold any interest to me is because I love technology, and they represent a new generation of technology. But... give me a laptop any day. My cellphone has a camera, a qwerty keyboard, and a GPS app. That's all I want. That being said, to at least somewhat address the actual topic:2.Which will win in 2 years? Don't really know. A couple of years ago I would say that Apple will win simply because they're Apple, and that's one of the most influential brand names in history. However lately I've seen more and more people choose other competing products instead of Apple's, so I guess people are smarter than that.
3. How will this change the way we think and go about our computing needs/wants? Not for the better, imo.
4. Which Slate-type of device would you rather own? iPad 2 or a Xoom/Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1?
I have a stigma against Apple products. So the second choice.
5. Is price a big consideration for both yourself and the market?
For me definitely. As noted above I'd sooner buy a good laptop than a smartphone or a tablet. But if the price for one is low enough that I could buy it and not miss the money, than sure I'd get one.
For me, I use computers for business and typing, and gaming, so I'd take a laptop. Plus I have a touchscreen phone and I have a PSP, which handle all of my needs.
I can see android tablets having a very valid place I'm tablet hierarchy.
The only problem I see is that people tend to do this:
Which do you want iPad or android tablet...
Let's Presume sales are even right now... Though they arent...
You still have android tablet VS other android tablet VS other... Etc etc...
It makes it more difficult on the consumer to back a single hardware... Whereas with apple yout choice is simple. Course then you don't make as much profit.. And with android you might ut corners to get the profit margins... Etc etc...
Whereas apple makes it up by selling in bulk...
If google were to back say Samsung... Solely... I could see the stood platform easily overtaking apple... But as of right now the tablet market seems more fragmented than anything else.