Well, seeing as Jinzin and S-Rank did all the heavy lifting in Thor vs Wolverine, and received a lot of grief from it, I can understand why they'd be unwilling to do that much work again, for a similar result. But, seeing as I feel that there should be a response from our side that is on THIS thread, I guess I'll take a shot.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
THOR'S SPEED:Right to the point: Looks like he's fast enough to block a surprise attack from Wolverine:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed30WolverinevsThor2.jpg
Ummm... that's great, but... it's not a surprise attack. It was no doubt intended to be, but, as can be seen in the scan, Thor saw Wolverine while he was still in the tree.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor catches a tank shell:http://s715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/?action=view¤t=Thor-FirstThunder4009.jpg
Here, he literally snatches a fired tank shell out of mid-air with his bare hand in Journey Into Mystery #93:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed02JIM93.jpg
And similarly snatches a fired missile with his bare hand in Marvel Team-Up #148:
Well, here's a good start. Three similar speed feats, all somewhat quantifiable, and straightforward. Let's see if Wolverine can match them:
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/5188/marvelfanfarech55b06.jpg
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9896/wolverineoriginsis02314.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3581/wolverinev1ch05317.jpg
In these feats, Wolverine dodges or grabs onto rockets. Now, while these are between 1/8th to 1/2 the speed of tank shells, Wolverine is also at a far closer range than Thor is, making the feats equivalent.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Here, Thor builds a trench around crazed citizens and Avengers, including a zooming Quicksilver in Avengers #98:http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed09Avengers098.jpg
Thor has punked the superspeedster, Hermes, the literal Greek God of Speed, not just once, but twice in Avengers #281 and Thor vol. 2 #27:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed16Avengers281.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed24.jpg
Out races Alter Ego:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=522796&pagenumber=20
Here, we see Thor flying outside a window and when Jane Foster gets his attention, Thor manages to intercept Cobra's poison dart within a split-second. The dart is fired before he even is inside the room, just to give you the proper frame of reference to understand the speed and reflexes necessary in Journey Into Mystery #98:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed03JIM98.jpg
All of these feats are of him using the hammer to obtain superspeed, which is not a valid ability in this fight, nor is it what is under discussion.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor catches a High Evolutionary creation who possesses superspeed, the godling, Zefra in Thor #475:http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed21475.jpg
Here, Thor punks the Newman speedster, Juvan, who was created by the High Evolutionary, using nothing but his bare hands in Thor #447:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed17447.jpg
In that first scan, Thor is standing right by the exit, so he is perfectly positioned to know where Zefra will show up. That, in addition to him using his cape to ensnare her, instead of simply grabbing her as she runs by, indicates that he was using tactics instead of speed to grab her. That matches this feat here:
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/4443/wolverinev1ch16713.jpg
AS for the next one, it doesn't take too much superspeed to hit a superfast opponent who comes right to you, especially when they try to grab you. And yes, Wolverine does have a feat to match that:
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/4602/wolverinev1ch13417.jpg
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor digs a trench in a blur of motion that is "almost too fast for the human eye to follow." From Marvel Team-Up #26:http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed10MarvelTeam-Up26.jpg
Thor moves too fast for Heimdall to see;:
And here, while helping rebuild Asgard, Thor hammers down repeatedly on a pillar and "becomes a blur of motion" in Thor #267:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed14267.jpg
Hmmm, lets see... a blur of motion that is "almost too fast for mere mortal eyes to follow" meet "both men move in a blur, almost faster than my mind can follow:"
http://img146.imageshack.us/f/uxmch21316.jpg/
As for that second scan, it's not "too fast for Heimdall to see," but "too swiftly for the eye to follow," as evidenced by the following phrase "too powerfully for a mere sword thrust by Heimdall to intercept," indicating that he saw and attempted to intercept it, but was overpowered.
Proof that Wolverine is "faster than human eyes can follow:"
http://img860.imageshack.us/i/ntsmv2ch2519.jpg/
And the scan of Thor becoming a blur of motion? How's this for a blur?
http://img600.imageshack.us/i/wolverineftas25.jpg/
And in this one, it's when Wolverine's opponents see a blur that they know he's slowing down!
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4046/wolverinev1ch03112.jpg
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/4153/wolverinev1ch03113.jpg
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
The original Black Knight shoots bolas from his lance that are literally surrounding Thor, but because of his speed, Thor knocks the lance away and evades capture. Black Knight exclaims, "I've never seen such speed... such power!!" From Avengers #6:http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed05Avengers006.jpg
Wolverine is five feet from Nuke when he pushes the trigger on his rocket launcher, yet Wolverine kicks it into the ground before the rocket can leave the barrel:
http://img576.imageshack.us/f/wolverineoriginsch00311.jpg/
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor reacts to Wrecker swinging his mystic crowbar onto Thor's head FROM BEHIND. Literally only inches away, Thor moves so swiftly once again, he snatches the crowbar with his hand in Thor vol. 2 #29: (If you really analyze this one its quite impressive)http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed27v229.jpg
Wolverine, who is on the ground, 3 feet behind Punisher, is able to pop his claws into Punisher's gun, throwing off his aim and saving his target:
http://img27.imageshack.us/f/wolverinepunisher0204.jpg/
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
While fending off two Herald-level foes, Adam Warlock likens his ability to catch his staff mid-swing and his combat speed to that of lightning, "He moves like the lightning he commands, much quicker than I remember." From Infinity Watch #23:http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed20InfinityWatch23.jpg
Wolverine blitzes Man-Beast, and, when his psychic lobotomy fails, Wolverine thrashes him:
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/208/wolverinefcis0042930.jpg
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor reacts and swats away arrows that are only a few feet away from hitting him from behind in Thor vol. 2 #27:http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed23v207.jpg
Well, I don't know if you really think this outside of Wolverine's abilities, but if so... here you go:
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/7057/wolverinemdis0124.jpg
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Here, in the space of one and one-fifth seconds, Thor dives out of the sky, smashes Mjolnir down and causes a shockwave to divert a runaway truck from killing a young boy ACROSS the city in Journey Into Mystery #108:http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed04JIM108.jpg
All that Thor really does there is drop to the ground and swing his hammer down, but it you want to see Wolverine moving much farther in less than two seconds time, here you go:
http://img861.imageshack.us/f/mcpch00702.jpg/
Here's another scene where Wolverine has to react in a half-second:
http://img859.imageshack.us/f/wolverinev1ch08818.jpg/
http://img291.imageshack.us/f/wolverinev1ch08819.jpg/
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
As for FTL reactions that can be measured in nanoseconds (light travels one foot per nanosecond), he's swung and swatted away Blastaar's energy blasts in Thor #270:http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed15270.jpg
He does the same to Mole Man's energy blaster shot in Marvel Two-In-One #96:
Here, Enchantress shoots a blast at Captain America and Thor reacts with FTL speed to cut off the energy blast in mid-flight, from Marvel Comics Presents #44:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed17bMCP44.jpg
Again, I want to see a response WITH EVIDENCE that Wolverine can match this speed.
Lol, laser feats? All right, here you go:
http://img845.imageshack.us/f/axmch00218.jpg/
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Now, let’s look at the more typical speed feats which are superior to Logan’s:Illustrates his impressive reaction time once more when he saves Barlow from the Cobalt Cannon's blast with a split seconds to spare.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/...SplitSecond.jpg
And here Wolverine saves Mai from several deadly beams of light(which would make this, according to Thor's respect thread's description, a nanosecond reaction time feat, lol):
http://img696.imageshack.us/f/mcpch04004.jpg/
http://img28.imageshack.us/f/mcpch04005.jpg/
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Easily dodges and outraces a psychic based Phoenix blast at point blank range.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/...oenixBlast1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/...oenixBlast2.jpgWhile groggy -from being fused with the ground- Thor is able to block a telepathic blast from the Phoenix. His arms are at his side even after the blast was fired.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...helPhoenix2.jpg
So, Thor manages to outrace Phoenix's thoughts twice, eh? Well, taking into consideration that there is some distance between them, this scan of Wolverine being too fast for Psylocke's telepathy UP CLOSE should surpass that:
http://img23.imageshack.us/f/uxmch25721.jpg/
And in this scan, Wolverine flat out states that he fights FASTER than he can think! Here you go:
http://img857.imageshack.us/f/wolverinev2ch06123.jpg/
Next.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Spins his entire body at twice the speed of light.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...lnir2xlight.jpgThor engages in combat with Skuttlebutt, dodging and attacking while they were traveling at speeds far faster than light.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/...rThanLight1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/...rThanLight2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/...rThanLight3.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/...rThanLight4.jpg
Both of these feats suffer from the same thing that some of PoO's did-namely, they're feats of Mjolnir, not Thor. In the second set of scans there, Thor never dodges anything, he gets HIT by the ship, endures it, then throws Mjolnir at it. Two non-feats.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Easily dodges a possessed Mjolnir unexpectedly zooming in on his head.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/...olnirDodge2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/...jolnirDodge.jpg
Not a bad feat, but, seeing how the guy who WAS hit by Mjolnir wasn't killed, or knocked unconscious, just hurt, it doesn't look like that was a full speed Mjolnir. Here in this scan, Wolverine both dodges and helps Storm dodge one of Cyclop's optic blasts, which he sensed just a split second before it hit them:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8568/uxmch21117.jpg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Shows impressive reflexes and speed when he tosses a possessed Mjolnir across a room and catches it a moment before it hits an innocent person.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...chesMjolnir.jpg
Too bad it's not that impressive. Not only does the guy have time to cry out "Hey! What gives!" before Thor gets there, but, after the initial throw, we have no reference to Thor's placement, and we see the hammer make several loops, slowing it down. Quite frankly, from what we see, it's no more impressive than this scene:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1290/uxmch37906.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8643/uxmch37907.jpg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Strikes an opponent in between microseconds.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/...MicroSecond.jpg
You and Jinzin have already had this debate, but quite frankly, even if we give this scan its full weight, this would still be just ONE scan! One, out of a career spanning decades. Your side has posted not even one other scan of Thor exhibiting speed that is beyond the abilities of Wolverine, OR, and Gorgon, so this is simply an instance of SMvsFL, and as such, is not admissable.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Let me tell you why the new argument you’re so keen on using, fails. This majority thing that you’ve been mentioning. 95% of the time, the Thor that we do see is in no way, shape or form, a reflection of what Thor is capable of or his limitations. As silly as it sounds, Thor at his core enjoys battling, he enjoys a challenge. The strength, speed, power, and even versatility that you see most of the time? It’s nothing compared to what he can do when there’s real shit on the line or he gets pushed over the edge. Not even close.Writers have actually given a reason why Thor is able to jump up in levels when his pushed over the edge or the stakes are extremely high. He like Superman etc. can go from getting their asses kicked despite seemingly using all of their resources, to kicking ass in the very same comic.
Writer’s have actually given us a reason why Thor fluctuates much of the time. He holds back. A lot This idea dates back to his very creation under Lee and Kirby. It would be reflexive at this point:
And since I know how much you value this stuff:
🙂
Hell, even Thor’s own description of his power can’t be trusted. His thought bubbles have been directly contradicted before describing the limitations of his power. So even if Thor did admit Logan was faster than him, the fact that he has time to bend down, grab his ankle and toss him which is a contradiction isn’t actually one. 😉 Just saying. To make matters worse, Thor was quite clearly holding back.
That's great, the only problem is, CIS applies on this forum. Therefore, when Thor fights OR and Gorgon, he's going to hold back. An additional problem is, that even if Thor does hold back his strength, you have given all of one scan that suggests that he also holds back his speed against mortals. The rest of them? Yeah, they weren't convincing. So, sorry, but until you provide evidence that Thor going full speed, without using his hammer to provide said speed, is too much for Wolverine, much less Gorgon, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, just because "he's Thor."
Originally posted by Starscream M
Logan's hf has brought him back from being burned to the bone...when has OR ever displayed any hf feat even close to that?
That does not discredit the fact he has a healing factor on wolverine level which can increase. Is it the same strength? likely not, but it in the same ball park.
There a reason why wolverine brought his sword to deal with omega red.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I already have. Posted Omega red wistand Iron man physical attacks in stride, as he done with rogue, colossus ect. all of which are more damaging then shock waves.
No, you haven't.
Thor >>> Iron-man, Rogue or Colossus
Originally posted by Prep-Man
OR MIGHT be able to withstand one, not 2. And if he is going to withstand it, he'll be too weak to fight. Gorgon gets knocked the hell out.
True, Thor could just hit the ground twice.
